@cf Somewhere in this thread I am pretty sure I posted a link that shows how many physics majors there are in various depts. Most schools have a fairly small number of physics majors. Other majors taking physics courses are the majority of students.
I personally would recommend schools where she can participate in on-campus research. Have her email depts if she can’t visit. REUs are great, but they are competitive. But even more importantly, professor mentors are invaluable. They can really help their mentees stretch and grow. Having professors there with her for 4 yrs shouldn’t be easily dismissed.
Fwiw, my kids have homeschooled, so small high school is not even a descriptor, but they have actually preferred large campuses. My Dd thought she wanted a small campus but after multiple visits and overnights, she decided that they made her feel claustrophobic. Hopefully your Dd can experience different campuses and find which she prefers.
If Arizona or UCSC are affordable, they have top 10 PhD programs in astrophysics.
While the schools are large, there are relatively few physics/astrophysics majors… so her classes will be reasonably sized in the junior and senior years. The key is to have her get involved in research with faculty members… and there will be a lot at Arizona and UCSC. Case is relatively weaker in astrophysics (still good) compared to Arizona and UCSC. In fact, UMass has a stronger astro program than Case (though case is an overall fantastic school).
@harvardandberkeley Thanks for your comment. I guess my concern was that DD would not get the mentoring and the access at bigger schools and that everything will be so competitive. UCSC, for instance, was rated #1 for least accessible professors and #8 for Professors that get low marks by the Princeton Review/College Rankings. Perhaps the problem is more prevalent for popular majors and not necessarily for Physics.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek So even for schools with strong science and engineering like Case, I guess what you are saying is that size and research funding specific to Physics is really important especially once the lower level classes are done. DD has visited UMass and Case 3x times and met the Physics Dept Professors but has not yet gone to UCSC & U Arizona yet. It’s a case of UMass is too close and CA/AZ are too far away from home.
Case’s Physic’s research seems to be joint with engineering department which I am not sure is all that bad. DD is interested in AstroPhysics now but studying division of Physics that has some industrial application might be good in IMO. I am not even sure how she already decided against Optics (did not want to apply at U Rochester), but for those of you who studied Physics, do kids change their mind of what area of Physics they want to study in undergrad?
@AroundHere Thank you for letting me know about Five College Astronomy Program. I will have to do some research. My DD visited was accepted at Smith also but we wrote off Smith because their Physics program was too small. We did not know about this Program. Hmm.
I am positive some kids change their minds, not just about areas of physics but even about physics in general!
My ds used his UG yrs to explore various areas of research in order to make sure he knew which field he wanted to pursue in grad school. He was part of 2 different projects at his home campus and 2 completely different fields for his REUs. He always ended back in the same place (and it was the area he was interested in during high school.)
One of the first places you might want to look is your own state flagship (assuming you have residency status in some state). You’re not necessarily going to find an extra ~$15K/year of value at another (OOS) public school, let alone an extra ~$30K/year of value at a “second tier” private school. The picture might be different if you qualify for enough aid to drive net costs down toward in-state public levels (or below).
Not exactly. It represents how many students from each college later earned PhDs in astronomy. So it’s not necessarily counting only the astro majors, nor is it counting all the students who simply enrolled in astro PhD programs. From all alumni, from any major, it counts only the ones who completed astronomy PhDs.
The NSF WebCASPAR site has massive amounts of related data … though it’s not super easy to use.
Hamilton hasn’t produced an Apker recipient since 1994
More relevant.
Within the past 10 years, Wesleyan and Williams have been awarded two Apker Awards in physics.
Wesleyan’s physics prize was won against much bigger schools since the Apker is divided into two tracks, one for Ph.D-granting institutions and one for non-Ph.D-granting institutions.
Colgate 2007
Haverford 2008
Mt Holyoke 2009
Wellesley 2009
Williams 2010
Wesleyan 2010
Augustana 2011
Franklin & Marshall 2012
Wesleyan 2013
Loyola Univ MD 2014
Williams 2015
University of San Diego
@harvardandberkeley Is it safe to say that schools with top Physics graduate program also have great undergrad program? Also, given all things equal, are graduate programs more likely to accept students from their own undergrad program than applicants from other schools?
@CrewDad Thanks for the list. Unfortunately, DD is off to college Fall of 2018. I wish I had known about College Confidential sooner. Had no idea. She has UMass Amherst, U Arizona UCSC, Smith and Case to choose from.
@cf Grad school admissions is based on UG coursework and GPA, UG research, LOR, GRE/PGRE, and personal statement. (UG research with poster presentations/conferences would hopefully be available.)
At admitted student events, my ds says that the students have been from a broad range of schools. There have definitely been students from the expected top rated schools, but there has also been a mix of students from all sorts of other schools.
All that to say, I doubt there is a wrong choice on your dd’s list.
I’ll drop a plug for Wesleyan, though I wouldn’t call it second tier overall … maybe when compared to MIT or Cal Tech. in that subject, perhaps.
D is a physics / astro double and the astro department in particular is awesome. Accomplished faculty - there was a planetary discovery last summer I think involving a Wes team that beat a Harvard team to the reporting for discovery credit.
Wes has won a couple of Apker awards recently in the large university category, which, while I’m biased, I think is pretty impressive for a 2900 student college.
D was chosen for a Keck NSF-funded research position this summer at Colgate. Among other things, they travel to New Mexico to gather data at one of the big observatories.
FWIW, D scored 800 on the math SAT, 7 on the IB physics subject test, straight As in IB HL Physics I & II, and consistently reports that she has her hands full with Physics at Wes. She has a good GPA but has to work very hard for As and Bs in her physics classes.
^Haha. @jgargery , it’s perfectly emblematic of the Wesleyan program that even tho DD has been there for three years, she has yet to bump into a grad student. Wesleyan has been doing advanced work in Physics (through the doctoral level) since 1962. :))
Thanks @circuitrider . I knew of the masters program but was not aware they conferred the PhD. And she may well know this. Her father is more than 3000 miles away.
Between University of Rochester and Amherst College, which one do you think would be better? I, too, want good research opportunities and better chances in (hopefully) elite graduate program.