Strong Physics programs at non-elite schools

My senior son is mostly focused on applying to elite universities for physics, along with our state schools as his safeties, tho he prefers not to stay in our Midwest region for college. He would love to go to the east coast.

Are there any physics programs that he should consider? For instance, he gets a lot of mail / email from LACs but has zero interest in them. In fact he was invited to many fly-in programs at LACs and didn’t apply to any. I thought it was a huge mistake to not even consider them. But he’s just fixated on bigger research universities or the colleges that are on the top 20 lists. I loved the idea of the LACs that are part of a consortium.

Anyway, I keep telling him that the top 20-30 schools are a long shot and he needs more safeties in the east coast if he doesn’t want to end up in the Midwest.

I know safeties vary depending on each person’s stats. He has a 4.48 WGPA (I think 2 B’s) with 9 APs, maybe 10ish honors, and 1520 SAT (770 math). He’s attended a couple of selective math summer programs and founded a couple of clubs at school, etc. He’s Latino which is why the invitation to fly-ins, fyi.

My husband and I know nothing about physics and math. Math will likely be a minor or double major. He plans to go into academia and pursue a phd.

Any suggestions are welcome. Would love schools that offer potential scholarships. I’ve had Lehigh on my list and he and my husband are not interested, btw. My husband is from the Midwest and hasn’t heard of it and doesn’t think it’s worth paying that kind of money. He feels that way about every school I suggest! Midwest people are very practical! Lol!

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Great advice. He definitely needs safeties - east coast, or anywhere.

What is your budget? That will help posters here make suggestions.

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With respect to the criteria you have stated, the University of Rochester would be a great school to consider.

Would you like a short list of LACs that would be superb for physics (particularly with respect to research opportunities) and mathematics?

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University of Maryland College Park. Strong physics program that matriculates a good number undergrads into PhD programs. Neither a safety or a reach, though perhaps close to the former with your son’s profile. They take a lot of their class EA so may want to consider that and it doesn’t bind him or prevent him from applying to other EA or ED’s.

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Budget is an inconsistent topic tbh. We are willing to pay full price for a couple of schools if he gets in. His dream is MIT and he attended a summer program there this summer. But we have major reservations about the quality of life due to the damage it might do to his mental state. And he has mentioned that as well. He has anxiety and gets down on himself. It’s a struggle for all of us, not just him.

That being said, we’d RATHER not pay $80,000 for most programs when we have a top ranked STEM public in our state, Purdue. But a good budget for what we’d be willing to pay is maybe $50,000/yr. That wouldn’t cause us to go into debt.

I think this is why so many kids in our state end up choosing Indiana U or Purdue. Those two schools satisfy many majors at a fraction of the cost than many schools out there. Purdue is still only $22,000 for instate. But he really wants to be out of here! And I totally get it. I’m from the east coast so I support him.

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Thanks for Rochester, I’ll look into it.

I really cannot convince him to look at LACs. I have done a lot of research into them and have even looked at a few lists of top lacs for physics but I don’t think he’ll budge. Especially since my husband is backing him up on this one.

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Agree with your recommendation. Great school, and OP’s son will very likely get in. But UMD is a top-20 public school, so not really “non-elite”.

“A lot” as in 90%+ so yes, apply EA because it’s a reach in RD.

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Maybe his plan is not such a bad one?

My good friend’s son (slightly better stats, but no hook) felt the same way. He applied only to a handful of ultra-elites on the coasts and our midwest state flagship. Some people thought he should apply to “schools in between” but he figured our state flagship was strong in his STEM areas, even if it wasn’t flashy. Some people thought he should consider LACs, but he wanted a bigger school experience.

His only admit was our flagship. He got shut out at all the highly rejective schools. He was disappointed, but not shocked–he had prepared himself for that possibility. He is at our flagship and is loving the experience (and saving his parents $60,000/yr.) He figures he can go to the coasts for grad school (PhD programs in STEM pay you, not the other way around.)

My friend is especially glad it worked out the way it did, because she sees that her son has benefited from being a little closer to home during his first couple of years (he was young for his grade and had some mild mental health issues, but is now thriving.)

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For some Midwest States, there really isn’t anything between the ultra elites and the state flagships. Indiana would be one of those states.

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When there is a likely big price difference between the state flagship and an out of state different experience, I like to propose other alternatives. What would he prefer between an east coast school at 50k and Purdue + a summer traveling Europe?

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Interesting recommendation. I wondered about this school. I know it’s a reach but would be a nice fit. And I don’t think it’s as big as Indiana, tho I could be wrong. I’m hoping he’ll apply EA to a handful of schools. I’ll suggest this. Thank you!

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Building on @Eeyore123’s suggestion, it looks as though there would be ~ $60K difference between Purdue (a top - tier option) and the parents no-debt required budget. A $60K get-life-started fund could be a very nice option! Down payment on a first house?! A trade-off: you stay with our affordable in-state options, and then the world is your oyster.

I’m a big fan of URochester- but it’s CoA is $75K+. Even with merit, it’s hard to see why it’s a better option than Purdue, or why being on the East Coast is worth that much more. A lot of students want to go away- but lots of us want things that don’t make sense financially. I’m with @fiftyfifty1:

And when you throw in the anxiety issues, maybe instate should be Plan A. What happens when he is a 10 hour drive away & spiraling downward?

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It is helpful to ask the question what he wants to do with the Physics degree. If he is PhD bound, then the state flagship (barring MIT, Harvard or such) is the best option. Instead, if he is Wall Street bound, as some Physics grads are, then some select East Coast privates might be worth considering.

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That’s a strong possibility, that he may only be accepted to his 2 state schools. And while his parents would be thrilled, he wouldn’t be as excited bc he doesn’t want to stay in Indiana or the Midwest.

And I do think he would do a lot better being at a medium sized university. Too small and half your student body is athletes it seems. But I feel like the sweet spot for my boys who aren’t very outgoing is somewhere around 6000-20,000 students.

If he opened his geography Colorado and Arizona are both solid. To @neela1 point what’s the end game? Work ? More school ? I think you can get a solid physics/math education most anywhere. So a lot depends on budget in addition to the desired metrics.

And yes he should have gone to a fly in. It could very well be you’re going to get a huge financial incentive at the right school.

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If he is PhD bound, the US News ranking list is not a bad place to look at as it is a Research oriented ranking. Barring UC Santa Barbara and perhaps JHU from that list:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/physics-rankings

So you can think about which of the OOS publics to take seriously, if at all – say UT Austin, UIUC, UMich, UCLA, UMD CP. Some of these are still quite expensive.

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This was my friend’s concern, too. Her son is a little shy and she worried he would get lost in the crowd at our huge flagship. Instead he has thrived. His department is very cohesive and welcoming, and makes the big school feel smaller, while not claustrophobic. He chose to live on a dorm floor (LLC) set aside for his STEM area. They have clubs for his hobbies such as board games. He has great friends and is dating.

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If your student ends up staying in state at Purdue, have him look into one of the living learning communities. It’s a super way to make a big school more intimate. He has a good shot at honors college as well but if not, Purdue had a number of living learning communities that overlap with math and physics.

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He used to say that he wanted to work on Wall Street. But that changed a couple years ago or so since he started taking more interesting science and math classes, and now wants to teach physics at the university level and do research. I don’t know much more beyond that. Basically he’s really curious about science and gets into learning new topics and ideas. I do know when he fills out the applications it’s not applied physics which is what engineers sometimes go into.

I asked my college friends who were physics majors (one is a HS physics teacher, another went into comp science, another into unrelated field) and they all say it doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad but what you do while in college. But I’ve heard contradictory info if going into teaching at the college level—that where u go does matter as academia is snobbish.

Right now i just want to steer him towards schools with strong physics programs so he’ll access to good profs involved in the field of physics in research.

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Consider adding Pitt to his list. If he applies soon, he’ll know within the month and it should be affordable. Drexel, RPI could also be options.

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