Hello. I’m new here. I am interested in math and science and will be applying to some private research universities and engineering schools. I had a bunch of state schools in mind but then I realized that they offer 0 merit scholarships to out-of-state students and that they are super stingy with their financial aid. For state schools my only hope is FAFSA.
Because of this I’ve eliminated a schools like Penn State, Colorado Boulder, etc., and decided to look into liberal arts schools. Now, not all lib arts schools have amazing science/math departments. I would like it if someone with some experience or knowledge could inform me as to which schools would offer high quality experience with research opportunities. Are there any such schools with cooperative programs?
I like these small lib arts schools because of how intimate and nurturing the community can be. Maybe someone could just elaborate on a specific school in the following list. What are the STEM departments like, did any of you have a good/bad experience or read a good/bad review?
Just to give you something to work with! I’m most interested in these schools…
-Williams College
-Vassar College
-Union College
-Haverford College
-Middlebury College
-Wesleyan University
…but if anyone could tell me anything about these schools it would be great too
Bowdoin College
Colby College
Colgate University
University of Rochester
Hamilton College
Bryn Mawr College
NYU
Sorry if I’m a bit confusing or if I’m asking too much.
Thanks guys
I would say Midd and Wes have the smallest and weakest STEM departments of the schools you’ve mentioned you’re most interested in. Have you considered Harvey Mudd College? It’s very unique. LAC but has incredible STEM.
Williams has a very good STEM department and Vassar just completed an incredible new science building to lure in more STEM students.
Colby has pretty weak STEM. University of Rochester has very strong STEM, as does Bowdoin. I don’t really know enough about the other colleges to give an opinion.
@Qwerty568 Thanks a lot for the response! Thanks for the insight on all those schools. Colby, Midd, and Wes could easily fall off the list.
I didn’t know that about Vassar! I will definitely look into it. I read an article on Forbes by a professor at Union College that graduated from Williams College. This leads me to believe that Union College also can offer a good STEM degree.
I’ve heard of Harvey Mudd and actually have a good friend that is studying there right now. I’m just not applying for various reasons. (1) I’m from Cali and I want to run away from there. (2) I don’t want to study there especially because of the miserable SoCal weather. (3) Mudd doesn’t offer PhD programs which is very very odd. This is like being the best pitcher in the Minor League.
Mudd likely won’t give you merit anyway, it is very competitive. But almost everyplace on your list is an undergraduate only school, except NYU, so your comment is confusing. Mudd IS the best science-math LAC.
A lot of schools on your list don’t give merit aid. You need to Google the Common Data Set for each school. Look at the section where it says how many students (in the whole student body) get non-need based aid, and the average amount. Figure out what % of the students that is. Are your stats in that percentile of the top of the incoming class? Then you may get merit. Look at the college website for scholarship
Info, too.
But your exact financial situation is unclear. Do you expect to be eligible for need based aid? If so, run the net price calculators on each college website. However, then merit aid probably won’t come into play, as usually that is just used to reduce you need based aid, and you pay the same.
If you give us stats and the specific STEM areas of interest, we could make more specific suggestions. Schools that come to mind are St Olaf (math), Lawrence (physics), Haverford (molecular bio).
If we’re talking UNDERGRAD science & math, then you’re probably fine at any generally well-regarded school. To have a professional science or math career typically requires a graduate degree. Grad school is the time to get super nitpicky about the strength of that major at a school. The norm is for students to go to a DIFFERENT school for their undergrad & graduate degrees. So don’t let the lack of a PhD program at HMudd be a showstopper.
Engineering & computer sci are a different matter. You can work in those fields professionally w just an undergrad degree, so the choice of undergrad school matters more.
Some of the best engineering colleges are undergrad only (Mudd, Rose-Hulman, Olin). They are teaching colleges, not research universities. The professors’ sole mission is to teach the students, not to conduct their own research and to hand over teaching assignments to graduate TAs. I have a bias for those teaching colleges where I think the students receive a better undergrad engineering education.
Engineering is typically best pursued at a state university, just a reflection on the historical development of the discipline. Yes of course there are good private schools and if you want a smaller school, Lehigh would be an excellent choice along with Lafayette and Bucknell.
As far as natural sciences go, all the schools you listed are good or beyond good into excellent.
Best to decide on which you like best overall unless there is something extreme, like there is only 1 student majoring in Chemistry at one in particular.
If you pick a school based on just your anticipated major, you will be making a very risky move.
That second thread has a lot of tables of which LACs produce the most Ph.Ds is various disciplines.
Regarding specific schools, if you’re willing to look outside the northeast, I think Carleton is at or very near the top of the list of LACs for strength in sciences. Reed and Grinnell are also very strong non-northeast schools in science. I also have to differ with @Qwerty568 regarding sciences at Wesleyan. They’re plenty strong.
There are a lot of great choices out there. You’re probably going to want to sort out what other aspects of a college you value to decide among them.
STEM, of course, includes engineering, so few of your choices are literally strong in STEM. Of your listed LACs, only Union offers engineering directly. However, some LACs on your list would be great choices for science, math, or both.
For physics, of your listed LACs, these have graduated Apker Award recipients (for undergraduate research in physics): Colgate, Hamilton, Haverford, Middlebury, Wesleyan and Williams.
For math, Williams (13%), Hamilton (10%) and Bowdoin (9%) are notable for their high percentage of majors. (USNWR 2015 edition.)
LACs from your list that have alumni who have won a Nobel Prize in a science field: Hamilton, Haverford. (Review for possible omissions.)
For computer science, professors from these schools appear to be the first to have initiated and designed a model CS curriculum for liberal arts colleges: Williams, Hamilton, Vassar, Colgate and Bowdoin.
Rochester and NYU are strong in various fields of science and math.
QUOTE=MinuticusMinimus Mudd doesn’t offer PhD programs which is very very odd. This is like being the best pitcher in the Minor League.
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What are called Liberal Arts Colleges generally do not offer PhD programs. Also, most of them do not offer the E in STEM (though Harvey Mudd, Swarthmore, Smith, and few others do).
Which particular majors are you most interested in? Also, if math is an interest, what level of math will you have completed by the time you graduate from high school?
Some LACs have low list prices, so that if you can afford their list prices, they may be possibilities. Examples include Truman State and University of Minnesota - Morris (even at out-of-state prices). In-state, there are some smaller public schools that you may want to consider (e.g. UCM, SSU, CSUCI, CSUMB). If you prefer a small school with an engineering focus, there are both low-out-of-state-cost public (e.g. South Dakota School of Mines and Technology, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology) and private (e.g. Caltech, Rose Hulman, Stevens Institute of Technology, Illinois Institute of Technology, Milwaukee School of Engineering, etc.) schools to consider. Be sure to run net price calculators on each school and check for merit scholarships.
Sorry, just had to say…
“Miserable SoCal weather” - LOL! I think that’s the first time I’ve ever heard someone call our weather miserable! I guess if you don’t like year round sunshine and warmth*, then yeah, it’s pretty miserable…
(And I’m with intparent in that your other Mudd comment is confusing)
quote Mudd doesn’t offer PhD programs which is very very odd. This is like being the best pitcher in the Minor League.
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What? Isn’t the absence of PhD programs pretty much the definition of a Liberal Arts college?
You should reconsider your schools if you weren’t aware of that. There’s a certain culture around Liberal Arts college. Some are rigorous; but, at the same time, many also happen to be very weak in STEM. As had been pointed out, most do not even offer Engineering.
By the way, someone mentioned Olin, and, if you’re interested in engineering, I can’t say enough good things about it. My D looked at LACs almost exclusively, but in the end it was Olin that won her heart, even though it was the only pure tech school she considered. She’s graduating this year and has had an outstanding experience. Also, if you’re not likely to be eligible for much (or any) need-based aid, Olin is about the best deal around for top-tier schools in terms of merit aid: every student admitted gets a $21K merit scholarship. It’s a very tough admit, however, with last year’s rate down to around 12%, I believe, and SAT/ACT averages right in the same range as Harvey Mudd (many students interested in Olin also have HM on their list).
For research, most (if not all) of the colleges on your list have some form of paid summer research opportunities, and the REU (Research Experience for Undergraduates; 10 weeks of paid research experience) program funded by they National Science Foundation specifically prioritizes students coming from colleges that do not have university-level research opportunities.
I disagree that Wesleyan and Middlebury have weak science programs. Middlebury’s state of the art science center is impressive and has raised the college’s profile among students interested in majoring in STEM disciplines. Wesleyan is a powerhouse when it comes to securing R&D funding in the sciences. You really should visit these schools to get a sense of their offerings and the quality of the facilities.
WOAH. Stop. I don’t know where @Qwerty568 got the idea that Wesleyan was weak in the sciences. It’s the only LAC on your list that DOES offer STEM courses through the PhD level. It receives more federal research money than several Claremont colleges put together and as @merc81 mentioned upstream, Wesleyan undergraduates have won the prestigious Apker Prize in physics, but - unlike the other LACs on that list - it was in the “research university” category and against “major league” competition like Harvard, MIT, Caltech, et al. No list of LACs with millions of dollars in outside funding is complete without Wesleyan.