Best Targets for Lopsided Student

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Soliciting some early college prospect ideas for Son's applications next year, since the other two kids were a lot different. Might help to decide on any summer visits.</p>

<p>Son has rather lopsided capabilities, strong in verbal, much less so in math.
Dropped out of Math honors track after getting low 80s as freshman, doing 88-92 range in non-honors science & math. While 90s in Honors history & english. Will have APs in these subjects and probably AP calc AB; might take an AP science if he won't get killed in it. Decent extracurriculars, not outstanding. Based on early scores expect SATs to look like 630M, 750-760 V, 760-770 Writing. Likes computer games more than people, not a likely frat boy. Liberal but not politically active. Not into drugs. </p>

<p>Just taking a quick look, at the schools where the 75%verbal Sats are closest to his, he is below the 25%ile in Math of the matriculated students.</p>

<p>If he were lopsided the other way I would say look at engineering schools, and if he were female I might say look at some of the women's colleges. But he's neither.</p>

<p>Academic interests undecided, but will likely track his relative capabilities.</p>

<p>Ideas?</p>

2

<p>I don’t know where you’re located and I don’t know what his approximate class rank is, but I might do some visits to LACs (some of which have a somewhat lopsided female/male ratio), including the following:</p>

<p>Vassar
Haverford
Bates
Kenyon
Connecticut College
Franklin & Marshall
Skidmore
Colorado College</p>

<p>Some universities he might want to take a look would include the following:
University of Rochester
Brandeis
Georgetown
Fordham
Syracuse
University of Pittsburgh
Rice (probably big reach, but it sounds like he would enjoy it)</p>

3

<p>What kind of major/career do you see him pursuing?</p>

<p>Law?</p>

<p>Health-related field</p>

<p>Social sciences/psychology</p>

<p>Business?</p>

<p>Teaching?</p>

<p>How is he with science? If he’s not strong in math, a science major/career may also not work well.</p>

<p>BTW…do you think that his performance in math was more teaching related or just him? Many schools do NOT have good math teachers. </p>

<p>Will he take Calculus in high school or stop at pre-cal or something else?</p>

<p>Is cost a factor at all? Is money no object?</p>

<p>Does he like warm weather, cold/snowy weather, big schools, small schools, rah rah big sports, rural setting, big city, college town??? What male/female ratio does he want?</p>

4

<p>Agree with the strong schools that are low on guys like Vassar and Sarah Lawrence.</p>

5

<p>Not many guys will like attending a school with a girl’s name. I know that may sound sexist, but it’s true. Also, some guys don’t like going to schools that are heavily female - even if it does make getting dates easier. ;)</p>

6

<p>Thanks for responses.
Answers:
“I don’t know where you’re located”
NYC suburbs
“I don’t know what his approximate class rank is”
Me neither, reasonably well regarded public HS does not rank.</p>

<p>“What kind of major/career do you see him pursuing?”
I have no idea whatsoever. He has no preceptible vocational affinity.
Let’s say law is a possibility, for sake of discussion. </p>

<p>“How is he with science?”
Per post #1, grades 88-92 in non-honors. has no interest in the sciences. May take an AP science class senior year, then again may not.</p>

<p>“BTW…do you think that his performance in math was more teaching related or just him?”
In freshman year, it was both. Very tough course, evidently. But his underlying (relative) lack of aptitude is real, based on other evidence (eg PSATs, other)</p>

<p>“Will he take Calculus in high school or stop at pre-cal or something else?”
Per post #1, I assume he will take AP calculus AB in senior year.</p>

<p>“Is cost a factor at all?”
Let’s say no, for now.</p>

<p>"Does he like warm weather, cold/snowy weather, big schools, small schools, rah rah big sports, rural setting, big city, college town??? What male/female ratio does he want? "</p>

<p>Taking all suggestions, irrespective of these factors, since he doesn’t know yet and these may be less constraining than other issues.</p>

7

<p>Ok…so you’re a NY resident. :slight_smile: So, he’s used to cold/snowy weather. :)</p>

<p>Based on early scores expect SATs to look like 630M, 750-760 V, 760-770 Writing. Likes computer games more than people, not a likely frat boy. Liberal but not politically active. Not into drugs.</p>

<p>Sounds like he’ll still have very good stats even if Math isn’t his strong suit. If he scores in the mid 700s in CR and Writing, he’ll have a good SAT :)</p>

<p>Is he going to take the ACT, too (some kids do better on that)…and the Science Reasoning section is not a testing of “science knowledge” - it’s really just looking at various charts and locating info and such…I guess that’s what the “reasoning” means. </p>

<p>Kenyon
University of Rochester - it’s a national U, but it’s more LAC-like.
Holy Cross
Fordham
Syracuse
Marist</p>

<p>If he wants to get out of the NE area…then…</p>

<p>Carleton
Davidson
Grinnell
Colgate
Wake Forest
Tulane
Marquette
Loyola Maryland
Santa Clara U</p>

<p>But, if he’s the type who might enjoy watching college sports, then there are other choices, too. :)</p>

8

<p>I’m not sure that Wake Forest would be the place for a non-frat boy. The social life at Wake Forest, while vibrant, is heavily dependent on fraternities. In addition, Colgate is fairly preppy, lots of Greek activity and I don’t know if I’d pick it for a kid who likes “computer games more than people”.</p>

<p>Based on your location, I would definitely say that you should look at SUNY-Geneseo.<br>
While it might not be his ultimate choice, it is an excellent smallish liberal arts state school (but you’re probably familiar with it). Also you could throw in SUNY-New Paltz as a safety, as well as UVM (often a safety for kids in the NYC suburbs–nice enjoyable school). He might want to look at U Delaware and Oberlin as well.</p>

9

<p>Here’s what I’d been thinking of before I posted, as a list for him to pre-screen. some of above suggestions have agreed with these, some additions too.</p>

<p>Vassar, Haverford
Brandeis, Grinnell, Macalester, Hamilton, Colgate, Oberlin, NYU
Connecticut College, Colorado College, Kenyon
U Rochester, SUNY Geneseo
GWU, BU, U Maryland, Skidmore, U Iowa, Rutgers, SUNY Binghamton
Don’t know much about: Muhlenbergh, William & Mary</p>

<p>Lots of imperfections here, some seem too fratty/preppy, some too liberal, some (at least Rochester) excellences seem strongest in the math/science direction. And frankly I don’t know whether his shot at the top couple is realistic, add Carleton there.</p>

<p>Should have mentioned, geography probably will center on Northeast, with Midwest & maybe Virginia or West if necessary/ near-perfect otherwise. Some of the seeming best fits are further away than I’d like, but stay on the list for now.</p>

10

<p>I’m not sure that Wake Forest would be the place for a non-frat boy.</p>

<p>Thanks for catching that…I forgot about how Greek WF is…</p>

<p>However, sometimes at schools where everyone is in a frat, that means that there is a wide variety of frats (culture) there. Don’t know if that’s the case with WF, but if everyone is in a frat, there may be frats that are less “frat boy” in culture.</p>

11

<p>Vassar, Haverford
Brandeis, Grinnell, Macalester, Hamilton, Colgate, Oberlin, NYU
Connecticut College, Colorado College, Kenyon
U Rochester, SUNY Geneseo
GWU, BU, U Maryland, Skidmore, U Iowa, Rutgers, SUNY Binghamton
Don’t know much about: Muhlenbergh, William & Mary</p>

<p>I think you have to have a nice “sit down” with DS and get some more direction from him. He sounds like a great kid :)</p>

<p>Simply ask what he feels about…</p>

<p>schools that lean heavily male</p>

<p>schools that lean heavily female</p>

<p>schools that are about 50/50 split female/male</p>

<p>Big schools (often have more dorm choices, more eating venues, more choice of majors)</p>

<p>schools with honors programs</p>

<p>schools that have big sports to watch with rah rah spirit</p>

<p>schools that are quiet and laid back</p>

<p>schools that are in college towns</p>

<p>schools that are Catholic, but not religious (many non-catholics attending)</p>

<p>schools that require a plane trip to get to</p>

<p>Schools that have a lot of off-campus hangouts (even if you say he’s more into computers than people, a lot of boys “blossom” and become more social in college. He may have some hopes in that direction.)</p>

12

<p>“Big schools (often have more dorm choices, more eating venues, more choice of majors)”</p>

<p>Agree, that will be the biggest thing he has to decide, this point alone cleaves the tentative suggestions in half, from there whittle half of them down and that’s a list.</p>

<p>FWIW I imagine that, given good choices, he would prefer a secular school environment without an atypically high representation (by regional college standards)of people of any particular religious group. And without an atypically high proportion of spectator sports cravers. </p>

<p>Will do some visits of different size schools, maybe, over the summer.</p>

13

<p>A note on Rochester–look at the various humanities programs in more depth before dismissing it as a math/science school. For example, linguistics is surprisingly developed, and I (who will never settle for so-so humanities) especially like their Certificate in Literary Translation Studies.</p>

<p>Agreed with the biggest binary of size:
big = sheer variety, esp. in social life and majors
small = intimate, more/easier prof interaction, limited access to obscure majors (linguistics and computer science were two big limiters for me)</p>

14

<p>I’m a PA resident.</p>

<p>If you are looking for a LAC I guarantee PA has one to fit your needs. We have an overwhelming amount of LACs in different tiers.</p>

<p>Just as important in size is to ask if Son cares about name recognition. </p>

<p>PA has some great schools, but most only have regional name recognition. </p>

<p>I don’t think your sons stats are so skewed that it would negatively impact admissions at many of the LACs outside of the top 15-20.</p>

<p>Some to consider in PA besides Muhlenberg:</p>

<p>Ursinus
Moravian
Dickinson (although the greek aspect may be a bit heavy for him, the wonderful study abroad could appeal to him enough to not worry about the greek).
Franklin & Marshall
Gettysburg
Lycombing</p>

<p>Although you state money isn’t a concern, given his stats if you look at schools where his Math scores are in the 50%, most of these PA LAC’s would offer good merit when looking at his overall scores. This is just based upon my limited observation, but they all seem to play a numbers game with merit and give out more money to those appplying to similiar regional schools. I have known about a dozen student over the last 3 years receive $14-19k in merit from Ursinus, Moravain & Arcadia (Arcadia is mainly for those who want to study abroad).</p>

<p>These schools aren’t in the Oberlin, Grinnell tier of LACs, but they are all solid schools.</p>

<p>EDIT – I don’t mean to say you should drop any standards, I just meant to throw out there names of schools where he would be a top candidate & would be able to work closely with professors. I realize some of the schools I listed have a lower SAT average then he does.</p>

15

<p>So based on above:</p>

<ul>
<li>will not overlook Rochester, it is on the list
-will look into: Bates, Franklin & Marshall, SUNY New Paltz, maybe another PA school (in addition to those in #9)</li>
<li><p>he will take ACT (though doesn’t look like he’ll really study for it much, as things appear now)</p></li>
<li><p>Georgetown and Carleton were suggested, does anyone else think these are vaguely possible? I mean they would be based on his strengths, absent the whole lopsided thing and its consequences. If these are realistic then presumably other schools with their level of selectivity would also be achievable. I guess it really goes to whether schools like this will accept someone who is lopsided, to this extent. I was asssuming likely not, but I don’t have any basis for that.</p></li>
</ul>

16

<p>It seems like he’d really get a better idea, and end up in a better fit, if he was doing more of the research/putting in more of an effort to apply and learn about these schools. Give him ideas or suggestions, but why isn’t HE the one posting here? If he really doesn’t care, then he’s going to be about the same wherever he goes. I respect your trying to help him, but for life-making decisions, he really should be figuring this out for the most part by himself.</p>

17

<p>- Georgetown and Carleton were suggested, does anyone else think these are vaguely possible?</p>

<p>If you’re a full-payer, that can be an advantage at “need-aware” schools. Georgetown is need-aware. I don’t know if Carleton is.</p>

<p>My nephew was just admitted to Georgetown a couple of weeks ago. It was a long-shot because his stats and ECs were not superb…but he’s a full-payer, so that may have helped.</p>

18

<p>“I respect your trying to help him.”
Thank you. If you have anything to add about the subject of this post I would be pleased to read it. As possibly would others who are in similar circumstance.</p>

<p>I imagine S will get interested in the process a few months from now, but in the meantime, as I am here anyway from habit/public service/hobby throwing in my 2 cents, I thought I would get a few cents back that might possibly be useful to him as he moves forward, and give him a little head start.</p>

<p>I don’t know whether he will ultimately post or not. D1 and D2 both never did, they either were too busy or thought it was “uncool”. Though they were happy to have the information nonetheless. But post or not post, he will ultimately have to do his research and make his decisions, no doubt. But with benefit of my input. Just as the others did.</p>

19

<p>It’s not unusual for parents to have to do some of the initial research for their kids. Some kids are really good about doing it all themselves, and some just aren’t.</p>

<p>I had to do a lot of the initial research for my older son. </p>

<p>I had to “take the bull by the horns” and arrange a first college visit. Thankfully, that first visit sparked his interest and he became more involved in the process. For some kids, the whole college process is such an unknown that it can almost scare them. But, once you get them on a campus tour, they can see that it isn’t so overwhelming after all :)</p>

<p>My younger son is very different.</p>

20

<p>Carleton is a definite reach, but not unrealistic. They are need-aware for the borderline 10% or so. Expect to apply to a long list of schools, of varying selectivity, and find a safety based on the M score rather than CR.</p>