<p>I simply had to respond to what I've read on this thread.</p>
<p>I am currently an undergraduate student at Michigan's Ross School of Business. My background will tell you, however, that I was recruited to three Ivy-Leagues in sports and that I received a 1470 on my SATs. I was not without choice when I chose Michigan over all the others.</p>
<p>Having my final college decision come down to Michigan and Stern, I ultimately chose Michigan. Why would I want to move 500 miles away from home and away from the Jersey Shore and New York City? Because Michigan has and continues to impress and humble me with its Midwestern attitude combined with its bicoastal competitiveness.</p>
<p>I chose Michigan because of the excellence of its business program, the people, and the spirit and pride it possesses. On the other hand, I clearly thought a lot about attending Stern. They are both excellent institutions.</p>
<p>Can we stop looking at the rankings and the numbers? Yes, we all have pride in our schools. Yet all of these universities have their strengths and their weaknesses. It is clear that we are talking about some of the best programs in the nation, and it will be useless to debate this topic further.</p>
<p>I also posted this in the College Admissions section</p>
<p>I think I have a dilemma that's facing many other soon-to-be college students interested in business.</p>
<p>Of course for all of us, the top choice is Wharton. However, if deferred or denied from there, then which school?</p>
<p>I've seen the rankings on top undergrad business schools, which puts schools like Michigan (Ross), NYU (Stern), and Berkeley (Haas) at the top. But then the question becomes, would you choose one of these schools or say, a good Ivy like Dartmouth or Columbia?</p>
<p>I've heard that what's truly important in searching for undergrad college is not necessarily whether it has a undergrad business program or not, but what schools the top graduate business programs look to for admission into their own programs after college.</p>
<p>On that basis, would going to Stern be valued more than going to Dartmouth? Or would jsut the title of an ivy like Dartmouth or Columbia sway the graduate programs?</p>
<p>I'm one of the many interested in business and looking for a middle ground between the top top ivies like Harvard and Yale and good state schools. So which should I choose? An average school with an exceptional undergrad business school like NYU or an intermediate ivy (including Cornell) without one? What would be more beneficial to me in going for a career in business? Thanks</p>
<p>i say an econ degree from ivy will do more for u than undergrad biz school at nyu... just look at mba placements. stern students are not at the same level intellectually as ivy grads (a simple comparision would be of sat scores.. i think stern average is around 1420 old). and recruiters know that.. but at the same time, interships during school is available at nyu so that makes it an appealing choice if your committed to doing an internship while studying.</p>
<p>i'd like to know which ivies have an average SAT over a 1420. I'd guess it's only 3 at the most. And an econ degree from an Ivy is a joke. a 10 year old could get As in it. Stern is one of the hardest programs in the nation, and finance is a much much more difficultt theoretical subject/field than economics.</p>
<p>Before this thread turns into a battle of who is smarter or what schools are harder, I think the most important thing to think about is what you actually want to study. Look at the curriculums - if Econ and the courses required for the degree are more interesting to you then do that. If Finance and the courses required for business are more interesting to you then do that instead. </p>
<p>You are going to be spending 4 years studying this field, so it's more important that you do something you are truly interested in rather than worrying about what will prepare you better for an MBA, because you can go get an MBA with any undergraduate degree. You're better off doing what you like and doing better at that (I think it's easier to do better in classes that you're actually interseted in).</p>
<p>Although SATs are not the best indicator of success, if we're going to bring them up, let's be accurate. Here's a list in order, the average SATs I used (except for Stern's, which is accurate) is an average of the 25/75 percentile in US News.</p>
<p>Harvard - 1490
Yale - 1480
Princeton - 1465
Dartmouth - 1455
Columbia - 1435
Stern - 1426
Penn - 1415
Brown - 1415
Cornell - 1390
NYU - 1315</p>
<p>if an undergrad business degree is very useful, why would all the ivys besides cornell/wharton + stanford,duke,etc. refuse to add it? I think undergrad biz is a good idea, but in reality how many of those students will use principles learned in their first 5 years on the job. also, outside the top 5/10 undergrad biz, do the courses actually challenge you? I heard that at several schools, undergrad biz was a slacker major, where everyone expected to become tomorrow's corporate leaders. unfortunately, thats not the case. i personally think if you're interested in business, you should major in something else, get an expertise in a field(whatever it is), take intro biz classes, and then go into the workforce(corporate, small business, nonprofit, whatever). Then learn the principles of business during your MBA education. </p>
<p>Look at the top execs in Fortune 500 companies and find out what they majored in undergrad. I'll be suprised if over 20% were undergrad biz majors. </p>
<p>anyways, i apologize for the negative comments on nyu. great school.</p>
<p>Here's a question which I hope someone can answer, because I've never quite understood this. Many people (and by many I mean most), see undergraduate business as a pointless major and a waste of time. If that's the case, why at almost every undergrad with a reputable business school, is it harder to get into the undergraduate b-school than the undergrad school itself? Wharton is much harder to get into than Penn, Stern over NYU, Ross over Mich, even Penn State's business program is harder to get into than Penn State main. Why?</p>
<p>1st the Department of Education lists business as the most popular undergraduate major, so most students don't see it as a waste of time (although I agree that a lot of people do rip on business as a major, but I think this is more due to a lack of understanding of how broad an education it is and how much liberal arts studies it involves).</p>
<p>I don't think schools necessarily "refuse" to add business schools, I just think they can't. All the money, faculty, facilities, etc. that go into creating a new school on a campus - they'd probably get massacred by students, parents, board members, etc. for putting funds into creating a new school rather than putting money into what they already have.</p>
<p>Wharton is the FIRST business school and the undergraduate program started 40 years before the MBA program so I think that is a different situation. Also, from what I hear from friends and colleagues, MBA programs are less about education and more about networking and socializing.</p>
<p>"Here's a question which I hope someone can answer, because I've never quite understood this. Many people (and by many I mean most), see undergraduate business as a pointless major and a waste of time. If that's the case, why at almost every undergrad with a reputable business school, is it harder to get into the undergraduate b-school than the undergrad school itself? Wharton is much harder to get into than Penn, Stern over NYU, Ross over Mich, even Penn State's business program is harder to get into than Penn State main. Why?"</p>
<p>When I speak of business schools, I mean outside of Wharton, Ross, Stern and other top 5/10 schools where getting a business degree holds strong value. I personally don't have anything against business major itself. It is just that many business majors think they will have an advantage in the corporate world just because they are business majors(like at college park etc). Outside top 5 undergrad business schools I do not see the business major as creating an advantage into corporate positions.</p>
<p>This is just my take on things and I don't have the time to develop a strong argument. I just don't see value in undergrad business(exclude top 10). Sure, maybe they want to really learn about business and are genuinely interested. But in most cases, business students are ones who primarily study business just to get a corporate/ibanking/consulting/marketing/advertising/whatever job not really caring about the principles. One who really wants to get a strong foundation and deep understanding of business should study econ for undergrad(my opinion) or something that involves strong critical thinking.</p>
<p>Look at kids from some of these undergrad business programs at average schools and look at where they end up. Besides the top 10%, I don't think the rest of them will ever apply the principles they learn in college as a business executive. I could be wrong.</p>
<p>"One who really wants to get a strong foundation and deep understanding of business should study econ for undergrad(my opinion) or something that involves strong critical thinking."</p>
<p>I don't know where you got it in your head that econ is this rigorous field, because I studied both finance and econ in college and there's an enormous disparity in rigor between the 2 fields. Learning how to draw indifference curves and devise utility functions isn't exactly the pinnacle of intellectualism, and economics doesn't really help you at to develop entrepreunrial or quantitaive skills. Economics is more like a good general way of thinking, but not much more.</p>
<p>you went to nyu so I don't doubt you. I want to hear it from someone who went to a school like Michigan State or College Park. Maybe I'm too skeptical and uninformed. Also, finance is closely related to econ as it was previously a subset of econ (until it grew and became a distinct field).</p>
<p>All right, I didn't mean to come on too harsh. Sorrry about that. Personally, the only majors I think would help you as an individual on an an anlytical/quan level are math/finance/physics/chem/engineering</p>
<p>i agree. and i think its the analytical/quant skills that is the root of a solid business degree and also the set of skills that is undervalued by most undergrad biz majors outside top 10 schools.</p>
<p>its ok, its an online forum. dont have to apologize.</p>
<p>once again just speculation: i think the most successful b-students for undergrad that are the ones who can bring an element outside of business into it. like if one is doing consumer behavior research in marketing, the students who have a solid foundation in pyschology will make the best arguments. For students who are studying finance, strong quantitative skills will help them understand the models better, possibly even improving them if they can understand the theories behind them. etc.</p>