<p>Thank you SJTH and NJ Jazz dad, I feel much more optimistic that I will survive this after reading your words. I always knew my son would be fine, me on the other hand? We all are looking for any advantage we can find to make our kids future happier and better. He will do great no matter the school, but why not try and find the best fit for him if I can help in any way.</p>
<p>I would love to hear more about Indiana as it is on our initial long list and should survive to the short list. Camp wise it looks fairly cetain he will go to Louisville and do Aebersold, but may do another as well especially if we find funding.</p>
<p>I feel very comfortable that there are enough good programs that my son would certainly be admitted to several. Scholarships on the other hand who knows. Many schools have 3 or 4 jazz bands with 4 year or less turn over and 4 or 5 trumpets in each band the numbers get up there fast. Then you have schools like UNT that have at least 12 jazz bands and you get to over 100 good trumpet players needed every year fairly easily. </p>
<p>We will end up heavily dependent on what my son’s teacher advises. But I hate to go into any decision making process in total ignorance. So hopefully if I keep reading your comments here and follow the advice I can have some input that has value.</p>
<p>No horses were injured in the writing of this thread. </p>
<p>Just wanted to get that out there befor PETA protests the place.</p>
<p>I very much appreciate you clarifying the awards situation Allmusic.</p>
<p>So getting into Grammy band(have to google that one again) means an automatic admit to Berklee, MSM and New School? Any other schools? Any other awards that are attached to automatic school admits? </p>
<p>Might be worth at least recording a CD and applying to get a reading on what level player he is. Another item for my list to talk to his teacher about.</p>
<p>I have always been told resume means nothing and most audition committees do not even want to see them. My error.</p>
<p>Sad that most lurkers probably know far more than I do.</p>
<p>I think we have to be careful, as parents, to not micro-manage or over compensate for our children’s interest in music - especially in jazz studies.
I recently learned of two keyboard (performance) players who were given “full rides” to prestigious music schools, but decided to attend other programs where they were only accepted, despite the $50-$55k price tags. In one case, the young musician said he didn’t want the “pressure” of having to maintain the scholarship requirements of a full ride! I say, get real… only a handful of players can ever dream of even making $55K a year as performers and nobody’s going to care what school your child went to if they’re not cutting it on the bandstand or recording studio, six years from now. I think parents need to encourage a child’s interest in music, but temper their enthusiasm by letting them face some harsh realities and make tough choices (both artistically and financially) before they head out into an uncertain future.</p>
<p>I have not read of anyone here even close to micro managing anything.</p>
<p>As for a student turning down that level of scholarship? There are some serious issues in that situation that I would not even speculate about without more details.</p>
<p>A far bigger problem is people with more money than common sense wanting little Johnny or Susie to be a great musician when they do not play that well and really are not certain they want to, and having the dollars to pay their way into a place like Berklee(for example).</p>
<p>Most everyone here is just trying to help their child have enough information so they can make a good decision. My son will make his decision on what his teacher says and what he thinks of the professor and school. My only say will be I can afford it or sorry I can’t.</p>
<p>And while I agree no one will care what school he went to, he will while attending. And how much he improves could have a great deal to do with what school he attends otherwise they might as well all head to the closest community college. There certainly are smaller affordable schools that might end giving a musician all he needs to head out into that tough world. But they are not ALL the right situations for every kid.</p>
<p>Trumpet 57, as far as student posters, Cosmos and fiddlefrog immediiately come to mind. They are both insightful and knowledgeable contributors, and willing share both knowledge and personal experience. WindCloudUltra and MahlerSnob were fairly active in the past but have since dropped off in regularity in terms of posts. They could well be communicating “off board” via pm or email in response to specific questions.</p>
<p>While these four come to mind, forgive me if I slighted any other student who contributes frequently.</p>
<p>Consider also that a current student or a student entering grad school may want to play it a bit close to the vest in revealing too much info within a public forum for any number of reasons. There are often experiences or opinions that may be better addressed off board. And some just want to remain a bit anonymous.</p>
<p>As for the school making the musician, it’s been said it’s all about the instructor/student relationship, but a student’s place in the mix, the peer quality, performance opps, the grad to undergrad ratio and opportunity distribution, academic needs and a myriad number of other factors weigh heavily in assessing both those schools to consider and the final decision.</p>
<p>It may make financial sense for a wunderkind to take a full ride to Podunk U, but if the peer quality is below the bar, it may be less than the right choice. On the flip side, a good musician at the low end of the pecking order might be overwhelmed or overshadowed at a large program with the right name. </p>
<p>It’s all a balancing act, and weighing each factor is part of the process. No one said it was easy. And it sure ain’t cheap. ;)</p>
<p>Thanks for again coming in with just the explanations needed and stating them so well even I could understand.</p>
<p>Probably an entire thread worth of wisdom in these couple paragraphs.</p>
<p>"As for the school making the musician, it’s been said it’s all about the instructor/student relationship, but a student’s place in the mix, the peer quality, performance opps, the grad to undergrad ratio and opportunity distribution, academic needs and a myriad number of other factors weigh heavily in assessing both those schools to consider and the final decision.</p>
<p>It may make financial sense for a wunderkind to take a full ride to Podunk U, but if the peer quality is below the bar, it may be less than the right choice. On the flip side, a good musician at the low end of the pecking order might be overwhelmed or overshadowed at a large program with the right name. </p>
<p>It’s all a balancing act, and weighing each factor is part of the process. No one said it was easy. And it sure ain’t cheap. "</p>
<p>You restated my point well in saying - “Most everyone here is just trying to help their child have enough information so they can make a good decision. My son will make his decision on what his teacher says and what he thinks of the professor and school. My only say will be I can afford it or sorry I can’t.”</p>
<p>But that’s not what I’m hearing on so many of these college music forums… there are too many parents doing almost all of the leg work in selecting the right school, agonizing over auditions, and obsessing over acceptances to the prestige schools. Too me, that’s micro managing. Success as a professional musician, especially in jazz, requires real talent, but also a certain toughness and dedication that demands a strong independent will… a trait that is not developed by hand holding parents.
I think you and I would agree that it’s better to let the young music do the work, find the information and select the right school - knowing ahead of time what the family budget restraints are!</p>
<p>No Steve you and I really do not see things the same way. And we do not have to agree. You are entitled to think what you like. Are you a young man that has auditioned and been through the process or an adult parent that might help explain your thinking which I find difficult to justify.</p>
<p>Honestly, I would not equate active, informed discussions between parent and student regarding teacher selection, peer level, audition pool/talent judgments, school choice, financial aspects, locale, ambiance, distance and a host of other factors as micromanaging. Nor is addressing potential fall back positions, Plan B’s, and other “what-ifs”. </p>
<p>Telling a kid if you don’t make the cut to study with reknowned artist A at a certain conservatory you’re going to have to abandon your hopes is. Limiting choices to the name on the stone edifice is. “Because I’m paying for it” is. Determining the amount of practice time is. Anticipating/expecting a solo career is.</p>
<p>The kid needs to have the input, and the ability to select options and determine the final choice within the “familiy parameters”. Having them go off on a wild goose chase and telling them after acceptance you can’t swing it financially or you’re not happy about it for some previously unstated reason does no one a service.</p>
<p>My observation is that the majority of posters here are involved, interested and gaining knowledge and background to assist their kids in making the best possible choices based on all the variables. I’d venture this has been the case for many throughout their musical development. </p>
<p>Look at some of the prior posts for kids entering this without some parental input. Relying on college counselors, guidance counselors, and even a number of music sources and educators, the student is often uinformed or misguided. Personally, if I saved my kid some practice/rehearsal hours by handling a few logistical, research or scheduling tasks, I think it was time well spent. </p>
<p>My opinion is much like violadad’s. One size does not fit all. Some families might not even know where their child is going until he says goodbye and some like Donald Trump build little Jr. clones of themselves that go to the same school as dad and go into the family business. Not necessarily anything wrong with either or anywhere in between.</p>
<p>I have not been here long, but I see no real sign of micro managing. In the real world there are those like violadad talked about that want to be able to say my kid is going to Julliard for their own ego whether that school is a fit for the child or not. But that is rare and again I see none of that here.</p>
<p>Steve M. you might also consider that the four years of college make a huge difference to a young adult. Leave home at 17 or 18 and live on your own for 4 years and make everyday decisions and at around 22 you leave a much more capable person, a very different person, and far more able to handle the difficulties of the real world than when you left for college. That is a huge part of college. So to say if they can not handle the entire process of picking a music program and going to auditions etc at 17, that they will not be able to handle the tough music industry after living 1/4 more life and the college experience to me is not a logical argument.</p>
<p>Now if violadad’s is only worth .02 than I can only ask for .01.</p>
<p>I seemed to have touched a nerve here… sorry, if anyone feels personally slighted or maligned.
I was speaking in the most general terms and stand by my comments.</p>
<p>No nerves touched, just an issue of accuracy.</p>
<p>You are of course entitled to your opinion. Differences of opinion can be productive.</p>
<p>Did you answer if you were a student or a parent? Your opinion seems to reflect personal problems you encountered with your parents. I hope you have patched up any differences.</p>
<p>SteveM, I agree in principle with your comments. I doubt that many students at this level are where they are without strong parental support, encouragement and backing. But if one as a parent is involved over a period of years helping their “kid” through this process, you will run into kids who are micro managed, and the parents that engage in it. I see your point and agree with it. It’s true in other fields: academics, sports, medicine, you name it. Some never learn when to cut the apron springs. Some apparently never do.</p>
<p>I did take your post as a general comment.</p>
<p>In the spirit of this board, I responded with an opposing view. My position is that beauty of this particular forum as an open exchange of info and opinion, and offering options is particularly helpful to the neophyte, be they parent or student. It broadens the perspective on a very confusing and complicated process.</p>
<p>And that’s just my economically adjusted opinion. May well not be worth the $.02. ;)</p>
Personal problems with my parents? Certainly sounds like somebody’s “nerves” were touched.
For the record, I’m a 59 year old married parent of two boys, one who is a young musician. I’m also very fortunate to still have a wonderful relationship with my mother 89 and father 93. My wife and I had a lovely dinner with them last night.
Thanks for the stunning psychoanalysis… </p>
<p>violadad - thanks, it’s been an eye opener.</p>
<p>Excuse my Dr. Phil level attempts at discovering your problem. </p>
<p>Sad that a thread like this had to be hijacked from what was a valuable asset into off topic issues involving your personal philosophy. Unless you want to share a specific statement that was made in this thread that made you decide to bring the concept of micro managing and your personal offense at that, I remain puzzled by your comments.</p>
<p>It could only touch a nerve for me if anything you said could have been about asking a few preliminary questions in a forum. I did want to protect the value of this service and not restrict people from feeling comfortable discussing their efforts to assist their child in a very important decision because one person had issues.</p>
<p>Hopefully whatever damage you have done is minimal and limited to destroying this thread.</p>
<p>Maybe the information that would have been available in this thread can still be shared in another one.</p>
<p>I am new to cc. I was just scrolling through postings to glean some information regarding jazz programs. My son is a drum set player who would would like to pursue jazz studies. So many schools require symphonic participation as well. What schools are students able to concentrate only on jazz? Thank you. momofgtm</p>
<p>I’ll jump in and address UNT. Classical and jazz majors are completely separate as far as performance requirements. They all take some of the same required music classes, i.e. theory, history, etc. But if you go to the UNT College of Music website, you’ll see that there are very different requirements for each major. If your son is a jazz drummer, then he would only be involved in the jazz dept. The UNT symphony and other performing groups are strictly on the classical side. I would imagine in much smaller programs (UNT is huge) there are more opportunities for students to play both classical and jazz. So, in a nutshell, to answer your question: No, he would not be required to play symphonic music if he’s a jazz major at UNT.</p>