<p>reply to Steve M. UCLA ethnomusicology/ jazz studies is more competitive than before. Overall, UCLA music is more competitive than before. There are students who got into conservatories but chose UCLA. for example, a jazz freshman was choosing between Umich and UCLA. I’m pretty sure he chose Umich in the end. I also know of one person who chose UCLA over New School with a scholarship.</p>
<p>Hello everyone-</p>
<p>I’m new to this site, and this is my first time posting.</p>
<p>I’m a jazz bassist in Rochester, NY, and will be a high school senior in the Fall. I have been doing a lot of research on jazz programs, and have come up with a list to work with. At this point, I feel like getting human feedback will be most helpful. This is what my list has boiled down to:</p>
<p>[Top choices]- William Paterson U, Eastman, Manhattan, New School, CalArts, SUNY Purchase, and New England Conservatory</p>
<p>[Other schools I’m interested in, but need to research more/ visit]- UArts in Phili, Temple University, USC Thornton, and NYU</p>
<p>I’ve reviewed this thread, and haven’t found any discussion regarding William Paterson- this surprises me, because I just spent a week at the school, and I get the feeling that it is currently one of the most happening jazz schools, and is definitely the best bang for your buck, regarding schools in the NYC area. Also, for bass, the school is quite appealing, with Steve La Spina and Marcus McLaurine as core faculty. Perhaps it is lesser known because of its very low, selective enrollment? I think it’s jazz program is similar in size to MSM, with a similar talent level. Do not dismiss this as a possibility if you don’t know anything about WPU, but I would love some educated feedback.</p>
<p>Berklee is on my list as well, but I don’t feel the need to discuss the school. Also, a highly skilled drummer that I play with is very into the idea of going to U Miami for grad school, and wants me to go with him. I know very little about the school, but I have heard it is at the top.</p>
<p>I am quite obsessed with the search for the perfect music school for me- any advice, suggestions, thoughts, insight is much appreciated. I look forward to joining the discussion!</p>
<p>btiberio, welcome. A couple of William Paterson threads:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/744958-jazz-piano-william-paterson.html?highlight=william+paterson[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/744958-jazz-piano-william-paterson.html?highlight=william+paterson</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/700613-music-management-william-paterson-nj.html?highlight=william+paterson[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/700613-music-management-william-paterson-nj.html?highlight=william+paterson</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/503225-new-jazz-program-pros-cons.html?highlight=william+paterson[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/503225-new-jazz-program-pros-cons.html?highlight=william+paterson</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/481926-jazz-guitar-schools.html?highlight=william+paterson[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/481926-jazz-guitar-schools.html?highlight=william+paterson</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/414238-university-choices-jazz-trombone-player.html?highlight=william+paterson[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/414238-university-choices-jazz-trombone-player.html?highlight=william+paterson</a></p>
<p>And Frost
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/189354-miami-eastman-jazz.html?highlight=Miami[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/189354-miami-eastman-jazz.html?highlight=Miami</a></p>
<p>Searching by keyword and title through the search this forum button will often bring up the most relevant threads, but there are many tangential subthemes running through a number of threads. Some of the best info gems are hard to locate using the search function. I found those using the institution name in the title. There are more. Try jazz as the keyword as well.</p>
<p>Another good source can be <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a.html</a> Scan the last post, and look for jazz majors, and specific schools. Degree pursuit, discipline and instrument is listed for each poster. You can also search for info under a specific username.</p>
<p>The best general advice is here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html</a> Check out the other pinned threads and the featured discussion threads as well. A number of recurring topics and questions have also been crosslinked.</p>
<p>Thanks I’m sure this will help me a lot!</p>
<p>Hoping to return topic to the front page and get some additional comments and information.</p>
<p>Trumpet57, if you haven’t already done so, read through the “music school visit” and “suggestions” threads pinned as stickies at the top of the page. Lots of good info there.</p>
<p>Also, the Master list threads are a great source of overview info. There’s an '09,08, one for '07 cycle not dated, and maybe one more. Use the last post as the most updated reference, scan the lists for accepted posters, programs, and emphasis. Looking for past posts from posters at specific schools is a good way to find info via the back door. Also, using cc’s pm or email feature can put you in direct contact with a poster if you feel inclined to pick their brains off board. My experience is that most here are quite willing to share what they know.</p>
<p>Thank you violadad. Your sleuthing abilities clearly exceed my own.</p>
<p>I will be trying your suggested searches in the coming days and weeks. Most of what I have run into so far does not seem to apply very directly. More about classical or if jazz than vocal. But that is probably my inability to find the right posts and pull the right information.</p>
<p>I did read one curious post that maybe you might explain to me. I read one person saying their child only decided to visit schools where he(she) had already been accepted. Seemed like an odd situation to go through the process, audition and be accepted without ever going to the school. I must be missing something. It certainly would cut down on travel cost but how does one accomplish that? Video auditions? Picking which schools with online information only? I just did not understand. Can you help me with what I was missing?</p>
<p>Ran accross the Downbeat magazine awards for 2009 online and figured I would copy and paste them to this discussion.</p>
<p>Dave Chisholm – trumpet
University of Utah
Henry Wolking
Salt Lake City</p>
<p>Matthew Sheens – piano
Elder Conservatorium, University of Adelaide
Dustan Cox
Adelaide, Australia
College Outstanding Performances
Remy LeBoeuf – alto saxophone
Manhattan School of Music
Justin DiCioccio
New York</p>
<p>Billy Norris – bass
Manhattan School of Music
Justin DiCioccio
New York</p>
<p>Matthew White – trumpet
University of Miami
Greg Gisbert
Coral Gables, Fla.</p>
<p>Jazz group</p>
<p>College Winners
Brubeck Institute Jazz Quintet
Brubeck Institute
Joe Gilman
Stockton, Calif.</p>
<p>Spiro Sinigos Quartet
Western Michigan University
Keith Hall
Kalamazoo, Mich.</p>
<p>Big Band</p>
<p>College Winner
Eastman New Jazz Ensemble
Eastman School of Music
Dave Rivello
Rochester, N.Y.
College Outstanding Performances
Danny Rivera Big Band
Manhattan School of Music
New York</p>
<p>University of Adelaide
Big Band I
University of Adelaide
Dustan Cox
Adelaide, Australia</p>
<p>University of Northern Colorado Jazz Lab Band I
University of Northern Colorado
Dana Landry
Greeley, Colo.</p>
<p>[DownBeat</a> Magazine](<a href=“http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=sma_winners]DownBeat”>http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=sma_winners)</p>
<p>Contains many more categories.</p>
<p>Do not know if those awards mean anything. If you can pick out any good schools because they got an award.</p>
<p>Downbeat is very well-respected, but they don’t print which schools entered their competition. </p>
<p>As to “visiting where they had been accepted,” (two posts above) perhaps the poster–and it could have been me–meant visiting where the applicant had passed the pre-screen and had been accepted for audition. That’s what my son did in the majority of cases. </p>
<p>Trumpet, do you have specific questions about the jazz application process and particular schools? There are some pretty knowledgable people, ready and willing to help!</p>
<p>Trumpet57, perhaps this is the thread you meant? <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/737642-combining-visit-w-audition-instead-two-trips.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/737642-combining-visit-w-audition-instead-two-trips.html</a></p>
<p>The scenario there is a bit different, where the op describes doing the school visit and audition on the same time. SJTH’s prescreen scenario makes sense as well.</p>
<p>Sometimes a visit prior to audition isn’t always necessary. Knowing the faculty instructor or campus layout through prior experience (previous masterclass, summer program, etc), being comfortable with specific instructors through reputation alone, or through peer experience. Some will not be overly concerned with specifics such as dorms, environment, or general “feel and fit”, and people do go into this process blindly or haphazardly through lack of knowledge .</p>
<p>The scenario you describe could be a student was admitted by recorded audition submission, and any number of reasons (distance, conflict, or lack of financial resources) may have limited the exploratory visits. </p>
<p>Hope that helps a bit.</p>
<p>I guess I thought accepted meant already having finished the audition process and possibly they meant pre-screening or possibly it was an off site audition. Just seemed strange when I read the phrase we are only visiting schools where he has been accepted. </p>
<p>Maybe a visit before the audition is not necessary. </p>
<p>If you have any comments on how the jazz audition might differ what has been written about classical audtions. And if jazz auditions contain classical pieces. Probably more complicated than a simple answer as I expect it varies from school to school.</p>
<p>Still in the trying to find schools to put on first long list of schools with UNT phase. So talking about auditions is probably getting ahead of the process. But that post just did not compute for me.</p>
<p>Trumpet57, you can look at jazz pre-screen and audition requirements online now. They don’t change much from year to year. A jazz audition is distinct from a classical audition, usually even if a school requires a classical component for a jazz audition. As far as how the trumpet audition looks and feels, I would encourage you to look through this thread and see some people’s reports about their audition trips. Since your son is a junior, you have a great opportunity this year–and next summer–to get a good idea of what KIND of school he might be interested in–stand-alone conservatory, conservatory on a larger college campus, or university music major. I would encourage him to check out a summer program that reflects what he thinks he might be interested in, and see if it feels right to him. Summer programs are also an excellent way to get a gauge for where he stands in the greater world. In the meantime, he should have fun and play,play, play.</p>
<p>The thread above “Music School Visits” has reports from campus visits AND auditions–if you search “jazz” or just peruse the whole thing, you could get a glimmer too…</p>
<p>On another thread you asked about Oberlin’s commitment to jazz, and I encourage you to look deeper. That program is very selective, high-quality and growing, with a new building being dedicated this Winter (rumor is Stevie Wonder is playing for the grand opening!) Marcus Belgrave is the amazing jazz trumpet teacher there. He’s taking the current semester off, and his substitute is the trumpet player for the Basie Band. Many teachers (including my son’s drum teacher Billy Hart) are working professional musicians who teach at Oberlin and elsewhere. Full-time conservatory staff lead ensembles, big bands and teach classes. </p>
<p>Ask specific questions–I’m sure we can dig up the answers!</p>
<p>Oberlin is one of the schools I probably know the most about. Been on campus a few times. Went to concerts. They have a summer trumpet camp we considered. We know several grads of the conservatory and the college. In fact we have met two jazz trumpet players that went there. Know about Marcus Belgrave, the new building, the huge donation of Jazz records etc. Oberlin is a great school, great conservatory about the only negative other than the crappy dorms and questionable food that we hear is the location. The town is out in the middle of a pasture. But only about 40 min from Cleveland and also from Cedar Point which is important to some students. The jazz students get plenty of classical work while there. It probably will end up at least on our long initial list. It produces tremendous musicians. But there is almost something too good, missing an edge that jazz needs. And they do not have the extensive jazz faculty some top jazz schools have. Certainly their classical professors are able to play jazz and help in that area. But one graduate from there that is a working jazz musician, “I am glad I went to NYC for my grad school after Oberlin, I was missing something”. Now I paraphrased him but I have heard that from others as well about Oberlin, the atmosphere and location is more conducive to classical than jazz. Another working jazz trumpet player said it was everything I could have hoped for from a school, it was a great experience. So needs are different for different players. There is something to be said for jazz programs in big cities. That said UNT probably has produced as many working jazz musicians as any school in the country and it is not in a big city.</p>
<p>So I was in no way trying to put their program down. It is an amazing school with amazing musicians teaching there. Plus you get a great education. Just maybe not the perfect fit for everyone.</p>
<p>Think the big difference with jazz auditions is that in a lot of cases you have to play some improv as part of a small ensemble during the process. Know people have mentioned at Rutgers they played with the faculty during the audition. If you are looking at conservatory type schools, before applying to Eastman which is a very strong in jazz, they want you to do their two week camp in the summer. My son did not do that camp but really enjoyed the summer jazz camp at WPU and still feels they are one of the best schools for jazz. Plenty of great choices out there so think there is more than one matching school for each kid so in the end comes down to dollars and instinct.</p>
<p>NJ Jazz Dad, funny how money jumps up and affects these decisions. Unfortunate but a reality for most of us. Help a beginner out. WPU?</p>
<p>Would it be smart to have one conservatory on the list of schools he auditions at even if we do not think he will end up going to one for undergraduate work?</p>
<p>Anyone have a NYC area atlernative to the likely too difficult to get into and too expensive to afford conservatories like Julliard and Manhattan? Somewhere close enough to head into the city for some jazz club nights but far enough to make the R& B not hit 15K? Same for Boston I guess.</p>
<p>Oberlin provides a lot of playing opportunities for its students, with ongoing on-campus performances, and their own jazz club. It isn’t at all like being able to gig around in a city, but I think the students who go there are well aware of that! </p>
<p>WPU is William Patterson in NJ, and there are some very good jazz musicians there. It’s not a strong academic program, however, so that school doesn’t appeal to some students who are looking for a better music/academic balance. SUNY Purchase is also substantially less expensive than MSM, etc., and for some instruments, has the same teachers. Purchase clears out on the weekend, for the most part, so it really also depends on how much of a campus life your son wants. New School is a big jazz school in NYC, with some good talent.</p>
<p>Juilliard and MSM are very different schools in terms of jazz style. Same is true for Eastman. It’s a great idea for your son to determine his preferred style of play, and how much classical influence he would like to have.</p>
<p>Boston has no less-expensive, non-conservatory jazz alternatives. The best/only real options are Berklee and NEC, which both have many very strong players. Both are very expensive, but give merit aid to the very strongest applicants.</p>
<p>Thank you Allmusic, very informative. Style wise, I am not that smart. That is probably something we will get into when we meet to discuss it with his teacher later this calendar year. I just want to go into the meeting as informed as I can and at least have some knowledge of good programs so if I ask “what about this school” they at least have a solid jazz program.</p>
<p>We are trying to form a plan and big list of quality programs and then eliminate them because of more specific issues, I guess style would be one of them.</p>
<p>How would you describe the different styles of Eastman and Julliard? Not that either is likely going to be in his undergrad plans. I know some schools are still more big band and some more small combo, but you probably mean something more like bebop vs bluesie or more modern new age??? Again way past my knowledge level as you certainly noticed.</p>
<p>Having seen some dorms and eaten in both food service and coop dining halls at Oberlin, I would dispute the dismissive description as “crappy.” Some of the dorms are quite nice, and there has been a gradual process of fixing them up over the summers. The food is varied, with lots of local fresh fruits and vegetables…not gourmet, but certainly fine…on a par with most schools I’ve visited or attended. The coops cook their own food, and it varies - many students love it. So I would not consider either the accommodations or food as points against Oberlin by any means. A nice thing about both the dorms and food at Oberlin is that they are fully integrated with the college, so students room with and socialize with a wide range of other students, not just conservatory kids, which I see as a positive. As to the location - the suburban quality of Oberlin has some advantages too - it is friendly, remarkably inexpensive (compared to NY it is amazingly so), and because students are not drawn off campus all the time, there is a lot of synergy for creative activities, including in music. Another consideration is that it is a great place for new music, which can overlap in interesting ways with jazz; this is not true of many conservatories.
The new jazz facility will be great - you can see a webcam on the Oberlin site, showing the progress on the building.</p>
<p>Allmusic makes some great suggestions: If MSM or Juilliard are reaches, The New School for Jazz & Contemporary Music is in a GREAT location in NYC, and has great instruction. It is more of a standalone music school (like Eastman) that is affiliated with a college. On the University-with-music-program and/or conservatory scene, Columbia Univ. in NYC has a jazz program, which you can participate in as a music major. They have some very good jazz musicians and teachers, some admitted this year. They do have access to teachers (for a fee) at Juilliard. McGill in Montreal has a great jazz program, is considered one of the best around, and has easy access to the Montreal jazz scene. Northwestern has a conservatory, with a very young jazz program, recently revamped under Victor Goines. I’m not sure how many jazz students there are currently. Also a great Univ. with access to Chicago jazz scene. Speaking of which, one of my son’s friends chose University of Chicago for music. You obviously know about UNT. You are familiar with Oberlin, which sounds like it may not be what you’re looking for. USC has a great jazz program. Allmusic has described Berklee and NEC, but I’m sure could provide more detail if you want. There are smaller urban and rural programs all over the country, many of which are successful feeders to NYC graduate programs, which many students do deliberately–choosing to “arrive” on the NYC jazz scene after four years under their belt. Have you researched where last year’s HS Grammy Band, Monterey winners, Downbeat winners etc. are going this year–I think some of that could be tracked down online. </p>
<p>Most important will be your son’s choice of environment–does he want a standalone conservatory or music school within a larger university? Does he want a big city, or will a more rural setting suit him. How many students would he like to see in a jazz program: 20 or 2000? As I mentioned earlier, you are so lucky to have this next year to explore that, THEN start narrowing the list down.</p>
<p>mamenyu sorry I did not eat at Oberlin, going by many students reports. Students tend to think the food is crappy after eating at home. Tour guide did talk about the coop food being “not too bad”. Coop dorms too as I recall. Only went in one dorm and talked to students about their experience. Glad to hear your experience was a more positive one. And my comments were not so much that Oberlin’s food or dorms were worse than typical dorms and food on other campuses. I have probably seen dorms at half dozen or more schools and most were not great, a couple were exceptions and very nice new buildings or remodeled. I will make an effort to not be dismissive and more accurately choose my words when casting what can even be interpreted as a negative comment. Again my general reaction to Oberlin is very positive.</p>