best/worst prez

College Confidential Community
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<p>Every political thread I've read on here involves people ranting about GWB, but cannot back up their statements with <em>hard</em> evidence. It's all based on what Michael Moore, CNN, or what they hear from their parents. I think that any president who has not gone insane during their presidency from hearing the garbage people spew every single, solitary second is a good president IMHO. </p>

<p>I'm not saying I support him or not, but this is what I've observed. (And I hav e not mentioned Carter/Reagan/Bush in my post). And I think it was predictable because a <em>large</em> majority of CCers have spewed their hatred for GWB on here, so of course, they're going to automatically say GWB without thinking of other presidents.</p>

<p>I consider myself conservative, but I mentioned a Democrat as the best president FYI. And I consider myself intelligent, since I am a political junkie and I actually look at how congress votes on bills on a Senator by Senator basis.</p>

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<p>^Very true, Smurfette.</p>

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<p>Reagan was a (R), Clinton was a (D). Personally I am a Democrat but still opted for Reagan and Clinton to have performed exceptionally while in office (in my opinion). And I don't think that this is a matter of one sided justificaton...i.e. a democrat supporter picks democrat president but rather an issue of whether we aggree with the president's policies and the condition in which he transformed the country before/during/after his time in office.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Every political thread I've read on here involves people ranting about GWB, but cannot back up their statements with <em>hard</em> evidence. It's all based on what Michael Moore, CNN, or what they hear from their parents. I think that any president who has not gone insane during their presidency from hearing the garbage people spew every single, solitary second is a good president IMHO.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I know! I think most of them listen to their parents, or the media. The media bends things. Watch C-SPAN.</p>

<p>I'd say the worst presidents since 1900 were Nixon and Carter.</p>

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<p>I was just putting it out there. I wasn't implying that in reference to konfuzed's post.</p>

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<p>I listen to what my mother says, except she's very intelligent and actually KNOWS what she's talking about. She watches C-SPAN often, and I've picked up the habit as well.</p>

<p>Besides, there's never, ever any right or wrong answer, everything is only a matter of opinion. The only true rationale comes when someone has a set of issues they are focused on, and a president or politician does not agree with those and might even work against those. For example, Reagan destroyed many of the principles I hold dear, but to someone who believes in small government and more relaxed economic intervention, but more foreign interention, then Reagan would be a very good president.</p>

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<p>Smurfette, you're always saying that no one posts "evidence" against GWB, as though there isn't any. That's plain silly, which may be why people don't always comply. Anyway, here's a few for you to chew on: </p>

<ol>
<li><p>President Bush fabricated evidence regarding Iraq's threat to the United States in the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, specifically, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was an immediate threat to the US; he and his administration have on numerous occasions made clear their contention that any and all criticism is unpatriotic if not treasonous "in time of war"--said phrase being their catchall technique to silence dissent;</p></li>
<li><p>Bush violated various sections of the United States Constitution and Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including: Letting bureaucrats wiretap Americans without a court order; Locking up suspects for years without charges or trials; Arresting nonviolent protesters at public events; Ordering federal courts to interfere in a citizen's personal business;</p></li>
<li><p>Bush committed crimes relating to "bribery and coercion of individuals and governments" and has repeatedly concealed "information vital to public discussion and informed judgment"</p></li>
<li><p>Bush has made America the most-hated nation on the face of the earth, with incalculable repercussions for this country in the future;</p></li>
<li><p>Bush has caused or is responsible for assassinations, torture, and indefinite detentions such as Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, Bagram torture and prisoner abuse, "extraordinary renditions", secret prisons, etc. etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Bush has repeatedly violated the First Amendment to the United States Constitution on numerous occasions with prohibitive measures on any protests or marches by the people of the United States.</p></li>
<li><p>Bush committed obstruction of Congress, a felony under 18 U.S.C. 1001, by withholding information and by supplying false information in his State of the Union speeches. This law is comparable to perjury, but it does not require that the statements be made under oath. Martha Stewart went to prison for violating this law by making false statements to investigators. Caspar Weinberger was indicted under this law in relation to his involvement in the Iran-Contra affair, but he escaped prosecution by being pardoned by Bush's father.</p></li>
<li><p>Bush added trillions to the national debt, which our children and grandchildren will have to pay off with interest, somehow</p></li>
</ol>

<p>9 etc. A selection of treasonable offenses... Allowing international terrorism incidents to quadruple and trying to cover up the facts, failing to secure our borders and ports to prevent terrorism, creating a new generation of terrorists through the invasion of Iraq and the killing of 100,000 civilians, letting terrorists buy high-powered weapons inside the U.S., letting North Korea build nuclear bombs and missiles that can cross the Pacific Ocean. Bush made a career in profiting politically from 9/11, when we now know he had received a CIA briefing on August 6, five weeks before the attack, which made it clear that an airplane hijacking by terrorists linked to Osama bin Laden was an imminent possibility;</p>

<ol>
<li>Someone else fill in #10, I'm exhausted ;)</li>
</ol>

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<p>Oh damn. I totally forgot Katrina. </p>

<p>Oh well, you can't blame Bush for the weather, right?</p>

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<p>ok i hate bush and everything, but can we not derail this thread? it was mildly interesting, and all this bush bashing is stating the obvious</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Oh well, you can't blame Bush for the weather, right?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm sure you could find a way. :D</p>

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<p>Marsden-</p>

<p>Look, I'm not trying to turn this into an argument, but you're really asking for it.</p>

<p>1.) Over thirty nations believed Iraq had WMDs, even your beloved party members thought that too. Here's a tidbit:</p>

<p>“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power?
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002</p>

<p>“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.��?
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002</p>

<p>“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.��?
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002</p>

<p>“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998</p>

<p>So point #1 is an old and tiresome argument, find a new one.</p>

<p>2.) Cite your source. And I actually laughed at the arresting nonviolent protestors at public events. Yes, I'm sure Pres. Bush called every police department in America and ordered law enforcement to arrest protestors. Just another right-wing conspiracy right??</p>

<p>3.) Hmm..does this name ring a bell? Sandy Berger Whoops...I guess the dog ate those highly classfied documents... </p>

<p>4.) How is this a fact, when in actuality, whether or not a person likes someone is based solely on opinion? </p>

<p>5.) Clinton also killed innocent people in Sudan because he thought an aspirin factory was involved in making chemical weapons. I know the deaths aren't as high as the war in Iraq, however, a life is a life, is it not?</p>

<p>Once I put that I was a conservative, I knew all hell would break loose. But, to save everyone on here some grief, get back on topic.</p>

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<ol>
<li> Scooter Libby intentionally fabricated information to G.W.Bush about the weapon of mass destruction saga. At least this was what was told to the american public. Libby (who is currently testifying for lying) did so because Dick Cheney (whose affiliated with Halliburton) thought Iraq was a great opportunity for contract work and installing pipelines (Halliburtons Revenue was falling in 2003). The only way to do this however was to take over Iraq and take Saddam out of power. Yes Bush was lied to...but this is all part of his scheme of acting innocent. Cheney owns a huge share of Halliburton and when the company's revenue was falling as a greedy/evil "capitalist" he saw Iraq as a great opportunity. There was no evidence from the beginning that Iraq had WMD's.</li>
</ol>

<p>Anyone care to add to our growing list?</p>

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<p>:) Oh damn, I forgot Abramoff too. I'm no good at this.</p>

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<p>I think Bush's approval rating basically sums things up.</p>

<p>We've made our case.</p>

<p>“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power?
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002</p>

<p>This is coming from a guy who said that he invented the internet. Bad example...give me another one.</p>

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<p>:) Oh damn, I guess you couldn't wikipedia all your information in a timely manner so that I can respond to 5 additional theories. That's just too bad, that I have class tomorrow and I need to get off of CC and do my reading. That's college for ya!</p>

<p>Times up, thanks for playing!</p>

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<p>Just to take #1, Smurfie, since that's your favorite. And btw, way to waylay the thread and then (when your point is contested) insist it should be brought back on topic! </p>

<p>The Iraq War Resolution (IWR) debate has been flogged to death, so there's no need to fully resurrect it here. Suffice it to say that:</p>

<p>a) Many elected Democrats did NOT vote in favor of the resolution. Not to mention the millions of rank and filers who marched down the streets of our cities and were largely ignored by the press and brushed off by Bush. So to say, generically, that Democrats "supported the war" or to imply that there was tepid resistance to it, is false.</p>

<p>b) No matter how many people contest this point, a vote to give Bush authority WAS NOT a vote "for war." Bush also had the authority NOT to invade. Since Republicans are so fond of quoting John Kerry in support of the case for WMD, here are his words on the floor of the Senate the day of the Iraq War Resolution vote.</p>

<p>"In giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to the American people in recent days--to work with the United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out tough and immediate inspection requirements, and to act with our allies at our side if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force. If he fails to do so, I will be among the first to speak out.</p>

<p>"If we do wind up going to war with Iraq, it is imperative that we do so with others in the international community, unless there is a showing of a grave, imminent--and I emphasize "imminent''--threat to this country which requires the President to respond in a way that protects our immediate national security needs.</p>

<p>"Prime Minister Tony Blair has recognized a similar need to distinguish how we approach this. He has said that he believes we should move in concert with allies, and he has promised his own party that he will not do so otherwise. The administration may not be in the habit of building coalitions, but that is what they need to do. And it is what can be done. If we go it alone without reason, we risk inflaming an entire region, breeding a new generation of terrorists, a new cadre of anti-American zealots, and we will be less secure, not more secure, at the end of the day, even with Saddam Hussein disarmed.</p>

<p>"Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm him by force, if we ever exhaust those other options, as the President has promised, but I will not support a unilateral U.S. war against Iraq unless that threat is imminent and the multilateral effort has not proven possible under any circumstances."</p>

<p>Not exactly an endorsement of Bush's approach or a vote "for war."</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I have class tomorrow and I need to get off of CC and do my reading.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL... your tail is caught between your legs already, and I haven't even gotten in gear yet!</p>

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<p>Seriously, I have about a hundred pages of reading to do..but I'll get back to ya. I promise ;)</p>

<p>I love heated debates, without the name calling!</p>

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<p>I always wonder about the approach to counter Bush arguements with references to well-known democratic senators. Are us Bush opposers automatically aligned with Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton? No. There's alot of us who think independently from the two party duopoly. ;)</p>

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<p>^^^ very good point, and I happen to despise both Bush *and *Kerry</p>