I’m a high-school senior, currently in the process of evaluating where to go for uni this fall. I’m certain I want to pursue a major in a STEM field, most likely Computer Science and perhaps a second major/minor in Physics/Astrophysics. As I’ve been researching over the past couple of days, Princeton seems to have a clear edge in the STEM fields in terms of research, research funding, as well as the general resources for students. However, last year, I had the opportunity to attend a summer program at Yale which honestly had me smitten with the university and the kind of culture of collaboration and contentment it seemed to have, and I’ve read several places that the reputation Yale used to have - of its CS department being excellent but perhaps not at par with that of the other T10 - is outdated and that it is improving dynamically. Beyond just my major, I’m extremely interested in working for Women in STEM, partaking in the Debate Team, and Student Government.
I would also absolutely love to be able to learn about the cultural differences at the two universities; I really think I’m the type of student who does well in a particular kind of environment - cutthroat competitive, preppy is a little demoralising for me and hence that is also something I would love to know about!
I understand that the best way to do so would’ve been to visit, but as an international student, I don’t think I’ll be able to do that in time for making the decision at the end of this month.
Any answers and feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
PS - I haven’t received aid or scholarships at either university hence that isn’t a factor I’m considering
“I really think I’m the type of student who does well in a particular kind of environment - cutthroat competitive, preppy is a little demoralising for me and hence that is also something I would love to know about!”
According to my freshmen son, the learning environment at Princeton is collaborative and supportive as opposed to cutthroat. He also hasn’t experienced anything that’s considered “preppy” about Princeton, and I certainly haven’t during those occasions that I was on the campus. That’s the thing of the past.
In some ways this is not a question that you can get help with. There is no meaningful difference in what you can achieve at either place. Yes, Princeton is “better” at physics than Yale. BUT: 1) you aren’t even definite on physics, so it seems unlikely that you are going to be needing grad level classes before Sr year and 2) physics at undergraduate level is pretty flat for most students.
Pick the one where you feel at home. Where you think you will thrive.
If you are a full pay international, you can afford a quick trip stateside: it’s just not that much money compared to the $250K that tuition will be. And the two places feel very different. As somebody who schedules long haul trips on short notice, it is do-able.
If you are getting financial aid, and coming is really not possible, then I vote Yale, as you have been there and know that you like it.
Yes, my son told me about it. I don’t know what that has to do with being “preppy,” but I’m sure Yale doesn’t lose to Princeton in the number of kids wearing Canada Goose.
Princeton is better at almost any STEM topic something related to the differential histories of the two schools. Computer Science is one of the most popular & strongest majors in Princeton. Except for Cornell, the Ivy league schools were slow to catch on to the importance of training in science and technology. Of all of them, Yale was probably the last to come around. Chasing schools that have 100-year head start in terms of their culture is tough for all of them but Princeton leads Yale by a head.
It’s not just a matter of which has better facilities. It’s about the fit of science and technology with the school vibe/mission/history. Naturally other factors may be as important to you. And if so, Yale might provide more of what you are seeking than Princeton. But if you are asking where STEM is strongest, I don’t think you’d find much disagreement with the claim that Princeton is stronger.
There is no argument that it’s Princeton. It’s the only Ivy which really belongs in the T-10 in CS (and has a high place too). Well, maybe Cornell as well. Of course Yalies will claim that their reputation is not deserved - can you imagine anybody from Yale saying “oh, no question that we cannot keep up with Princeton or even with, horror of horrors, public universities like UCB or Gtech”?
Look up csrankings, though these tell you the overall quality of research at CS departments, and do not best reflect their quality in undergraduate education, so, say, Harvey Mudd isn’t there.
“physics at undergraduate level is pretty flat for most students.”
I"m not sure what this statement means. It’s not the case that studying physics at all schools is the same. Switch physics students between Chicago and MIT and you’ll hear some complaining by both.
OP. if you want to know about the cultural differences between the two schools you should read about their histories. You’ll see some current day themes that stem from differential histories. It’s fascinating.
re: post #10, it means that for most students, the core undergraduate major is pretty similar across universities. The physics grad schools have worked to make it so that any reasonably competitive undergrad program will prepare physics majors are prepared to apply to physics PhD grad program.
That does not mean that they are identical, or that an advanced physics student wouldn’t be able to benefit in particular ways from going to a Harvey Mudd or a Princeton- but it would be an advanced HS student who would know the difference between UChicago & MIT physics departments and have a preference for one or the other at this stage. My physics collegekid was easily a sophomore / more likely a junior before she would have known that- and even then her preference would have been shaped by direct experience, not something she would have had a priori.
For a generally interested potential physics undergrad student, imo there would be no meaningful downside to choosing Yale over Princeton, even though its physics program is not as highly rated as Princeton’s. The 8 required courses for the major are the same classes at both places, and the capstone research requirement is similar. Are there differences? of course. Are they meaningful to the OP? that’s the call the OP has to make.
Princeton has a long history of producing influential scientists. If you prefer Yale, you will still be receiving an education that is beyond excellent.
There is no question that Princeton has better CS and physics departments than Yale. Though OP will likely find better faculty at Princeton she may also find more competitive students in those fields. And that coupled with grad deflation can ruin someone’s interest and chance in a physics PhD program. If OP wants to earn top grades in physics/CS and have plenty of free time to pursue passion in “Women in STEM, partaking in the Debate Team, and Student Government.”, Yale may not be a bad option.
For CS, I would actually choose Yale. Part of that is because I love Yale’s campus, but Yale was also one of the pioneers of AI and its CS program is still top-notch.
That’s absolutely my own personal preference. I’m not saying that’s the way to go for everyone else.
