<p>after visiting both schools, i am really torn. i loved yale although i did not like timothy dwight res. college, and i think ezra stiles is somewhat off campus. people also say morse is bad. also worried about crime. princeton on the other hand seems good. but i hated the dorms. also, classes are supposed to be very hard and they have grade deflation. i do not like the idea of eating clubs. princeton is buidling new dorms. yale in pirnceton, new jersey is the perfect school. i don't know what to do.</p>
<p>tough choice, but I wouldn't exclude Yale on the basis of not liking TD or Ezra Stiles (I knew plenty of people who loved those colleges). You probably won't end up in one of them, and if you do and you don't like it, you can transfer. As far as "removed from campus", Yale colleges are actually quite close when compared to the dorms of most other schools. Yale is a pretty compact campus. Crime is a problem on all urban campuses and it is no worse at yale than on other similarly situated campuses like Penn and Harvard. It is up to you whether you are willing to live with all the bad of a city (crime, noise, busy streets) for all the benefits of a city (restaraunts, music, art, entertainment, bars, clubs)</p>
<p>Didnt' you also get into Harvard? You should visit there as well. Its campus is even more spread out, but it has a different feeling completely from yale and princeton.</p>
<p>Like crimson said, you have better odds of getting into other colleges so don't discount Yale because of Morse, Stiles, or any other college.</p>
<p>TD is actually really nice and has some of the most fervent college spirit I've seen here.</p>
<p>Morse and Stiles are not off-campus in anyway, they're merely the edges of campus, which most colleges are. </p>
<p>Crime is not that bad on or around campus, we're just like any other urban school. It's all about common sense, you're not gonna venture off into a bad part of New Haven at night by yourself.</p>
<p>Princeton is trying to set up a residential college system. Doesn't it make sense to go to the school other schools are trying to imitate?</p>
<p>I love Princeton. I had the ED papers signed and everything, I just didn't end up submitting them. I think Princeton has some of the best academics in the nation for an undergraduate student. At the same time, I felt very much that it had this sort of "yeah, we're smart. But we're also siiiick at lax" vibe to it. It kinda reminded me a bit too much of my high school, and I didn't think four more years of that would be good for my character development.</p>
<p>In any event, I chose Yale. I think the architecture is even more beautiful than Princeton (even if the campus isn't), I found Yale students to be unbelievably friendly, warm and interesting folk, and I think Yale's undergrad education is stellar, even when compared to Princeton. I loved the residential college system, especially when contrasted to Princeton's eating clubs - they both break a large school down into more manageable communities, but the colleges break them down as a sample of the entire student body, while Princeton's clubs end up somewhat self-segregating) I also sat in for a debate at the Yale Political Union and loved it. They were debating "Man is a religious animal" and I got there at 8 and by 11 when my host came to pick me up, they were still going strong. I don't know. I also felt like it had a really friendly vibe. The admitted students board confirmed this for me and so kept me from applying anywhere RD. I'm also really interested in the Directed Studies program, which you might want to check out if you're a Humanities type person. <a href="http://www.yale.edu/directedstudies/directed.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.yale.edu/directedstudies/directed.html</a></p>
<p>Either way, you're not in a bad spot - two world-class educations are awaiting you.</p>
<p>Best of luck,
DMW</p>
<p>My D has been perfectly happy living in Stiles, which is not in any way off-campus. It's the closest of all the colleges by far to the Payne Whitney Gym, a two-minute walk from Sterling Library, and literally shares a back wall with the bookstore. Also, it's got way, way more single rooms than any other college. She had one from sophomore year on.</p>
<p>Hey Mel. I read your posts and can quite sympathize, becaus eI happen to be in a same dilemma... Princeton or Yale? It's a great problem to have, and because both schools are so great is exactly why choosing is becoming so hard. I'm more of a Physics person, although I'd like to throw in a decent bit of literature, arts and philosophy here and there to taste. So I need a place very well-rounded. I've been under the impression Princeton is more of the all-rounder... and I dunno if this is just hearsay or more, but natural sciences suck at Yale. This was tipping the balance in Princeton's favor until a little while ago. </p>
<p>However, upon further research I've come to know how the two colleges differ in terms of social life. A friend at Yale tells me that when she visited Princeton, she noticed that undergrads "don't seem to build the same kind of bonds that Yalies develop." Since I'm from Pakistan, I'm forced to look for an environment which is more welcoming to diversity and does not favor cliques. Yale's supposedly good at that. I envy you for having visited the two places tho... I have to depend on hearsay. Yale seems to be a more homey place... plus it's a fact that when you apply to grad-school, your extra-curriculars make more of a difference to your application than your academics. Yale offers more of that, and hopefully I won't be at a disadvantage because of having studied Physics at Yale rather than Princeton. It's an Ivy League after all!</p>
<p>I've affirmed my admission on the Yale response card, but something's keeping me from posting it til the 31st. I mean Princeton is rated so high in its undergrad program... I wonder if I went there, I might find the stories about snobbish, nerdy preppies are myths after all. I'd like somebody to reassure me that Yale is indeed the right choice...!!!</p>
<p>Huda, Yale is truly a wonderful university, but I feel that I should emphasize to you again that Princeton arguably has the best physics and philosophy departments in the nation. Princeton is stronger in math and the hard sciences (physics) than Yale is (and grad schools do recognize this), whereas they are about equal in the biological sciences and humanities. If you truly feel that social circumstances will be better at Yale and that you will not fit in at Princeton, go to Yale, but I as far as I have heard and experienced during my visits, the elitist stereotype at Princeton is for the most part very false and the students are very welcoming (there will be some snobbish people, but you will get them everywhere...in fact, over half of Princeton's students are on financial aid, if this means anything). Furthermore, Princeton's academic strength's seem to be much more in sync with your interests. And I am sure that there will be no shortage of extracurricular opportunities at Princeton (academics are still #1 to grad schools though, and Princeton's academic reputation in Physics is top-notch). But, either way, you will end up at a terrific school!</p>
<p>To begin with, thanks. Though I've read 35% of Princetonians are on aid, somewhere on this forum. However, no doubting the fact that Princeton is the stronger academically. Which is why it stayed on my first-choice college position until recently. But then there were those turn-offs people churn out once in a while, like places closing down early at Princeton, and the residential schools being only a shadow of the Yale system.</p>
<p>Look, since I've never visited either university, I have no reason to feel I will or will not fit in. I would like you to be a litle more specific about what exactly will there be "to do" at Princeton. It's psychological, in the end. I need to find a lot of appealing points about Princeton. (Part of me wants to get out of this confusion and just let things rest at Yale, but I guess now's the time to make an informed decision so I don't regret a rash move later.)</p>
<p>Plus, will any Yalie out there shed any light on the state of Natural Sciences at Yale? Relative to other Ivy Leagues?</p>
<p>huda, first, congratulations on your enviable choice of schools! fine schools, both of them. if i may, though, i'd like to caution you against relying too much on hearsay from people who haven't even attended a particular school. i can tell you, as a tiger myself, that princetonians do in fact "build the same kind of bonds that yalies develop" - bonds to both their university and their classmates. there may, in fact, be no university in the <em>country</em> that produces such happy and loyal alumni. as evidence, note that every year, more than 60% of alumni donate to princeton; at the next-best university, the number in the mid-40's. also, every year, 10,000 or so of those alumni return for what wikipedia says "may be the most well-attended college reunion in the world." i've even heard some prospectives call such zealous loyalty a turnoff! </p>
<p>as for academics, well, i actually don't think you give yale's science programs enough credit. they're in fact pretty respectable. for physics, though, you really can't beat princeton. last i checked, there were <em>five</em> nobel prize winners just in that department! also, nearby are the princeton plasma physics laboratory and the institute for advanced study, where einstein, oppenheimer, and von neumann lived and worked. since you haven't visited, i'd really encourage you to learn more about princeton before you make your final decision. consider posting over on the princeton board, where several students and alums of varying ages gladly answer questions. good luck, though, wherever you choose to go. i'm confident you'll love either place. </p>
<p>Hey Huda, this opinion was swiped off the Yale admitted students boards from one of the current students there. She was responding to a question on Yale vs. Standford's science program.</p>
<p>"I can't speak for Stanford's science program, but I can tell you that Yale's is GREAT.</p>
<p>We just spent $1 BILLION on new science buildings and progams (more $ infused into a science program than any other college). Our graduating student-faculty ratio is 1:1. What this means is more research opportunities than kids to take them, small classes, and sooo much faculty interaction (this means lots of recommendations when you want to apply to grad school or jobs)! This is def. not the case at most other schools where science is huge because at those schools, you'll be competing with all the other science kids for research and getting to know faculty.
You definitely won't be at a disadvantage if you come to Yale, and you might even be at an advantage considering the fact that there are so many opportunities for research/faculty interaction here.. that means you'll be a stronger applicant for med school. We also have pre-med advisors that will guide you through the process of taking classes, taking the MCATS, applying, etc."</p>
<p>If you haven't already, you should really check out the message boards on the website if you'd like student opinions. I know one of the admissions officers was a physics major at Yale - he seems to absolutely love answering questions (as well as the sciences at Yale), so I'm sure you could throw one out there on physics at Yale. Another thread just has kids who enjoy physics spitting out hard problems at each other and then working on finding answers to them. I also remember reading that they let you use a particle accelerator in your basic level physics class. I think they have one just for undergrads... (and that the scientist that invented the cyclotron -??- went to Yale)</p>
<p>Anyhow, goodluck with your decision - you face, in the words of my advisor, "an embarassment of riches!" I don't think you're going to lose either way.</p>
<p>All the best,
DMW</p>
<p>52% of admit students have been offered aid at Princeton not 35% :)</p>
<p>Hey DMW</p>
<p>Which admission officer is that?</p>
<p>I think he is talking about David Reiman</p>
<p>im going to princeton. I chose on a coin flip.</p>
<p>There's more discussion of this at:</p>
<p>Harvard is a fine school, so are Yale and Princeton.</p>
<p>But for cross-admits, more students choose H over Y, H over P and Y over P. That's the fact. That's why we call "HYP" not "YHP" nor "PHY". :)</p>
<p>That's not really true. Yale has been more selective than Harvard for two of the past three years running. Also, Hoxby's Revealed Preference study - done several years ago before Yale had a sub 9% acceptance rate - suggested that even at the time, Harvard and Yale were about equally desirable (with Princeton far behind).</p>
<p>Aww..Kjoodles beat me to it. :)</p>
<p>posterX: I wouldn't say that Princeton is FAR behind.</p>
<p>ah, posterX with his usual propaganda. now the truth: yale has been more "selective" than harvard the last two years only if one measures selectivity entirely by acceptance rate. no one in their right mind does, however. they also, quite rightly, consider the <em>quality</em> of students who gain admission and who enroll. by almost all of the latter measures, including average SAT scores, percentage of students receiving national merit scholarships, etc., harvard is more selective than yale. also, the revealed preference study, to which he fails to cite, does not have harvard and yale "about equally desirable (with princeton far behind)." in the latest version, yale ranks third behind both harvard and caltech, and is actually closer to #6 princeton than it is to #1 harvard.</p>
<p><a href="http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf</a> (page 28)</p>
<p>correct on most counts scottie, except that Yale actually has about the same number of NMS winners per capita as of last year. "Leon" detailed this on a thread in the Harvard forum a few months back - its around 17% of the incoming freshman class. Also, in the RP study, Yale is about 0.5 'elo' points ahead of Princeton (#6) and 0.63 points behind harvard, so I don't see how its much more closer to #6 than to #1 in the RP study. Something I found VERY intersting in reading that study is Table 7 on page 45 which, to my suprise, showed that Yale is more desirable than Princeton in students planning to major in any field, not just humanities. Maybe perception is finally catching up to the reality that Yale's sciences aren't 'weak'. </p>
<p>The fact remains, that Yale is very selective, as are Princeton and Harvard. Measuring this by admission rate alone is bogus and disingenuous. They could, for instance admit a class of morons with a 5% acceptance rate.</p>