@Leigh22 I think PSU honors is really, really well respected. Plus, the vibe of PSU is way different that Princeton and Cornell. Some kids would find that honors program plus the big rah rah feel of PSU to be the absolute perfect match. Add that the cost was probably way less and there you go.
People don’t really know which kids are accepted and attended top schools.
My kid’s school Naviance shows 1 admitted and 2 attended Harvard in some year.
Some kids made some false claims to make people laugh.
It’s been rumored that Sasha Obama is going to pick Michigan over Yale. I’ll guess we’ll find out in a few weeks!
“I think that private schools have priced out professionals and don’t seem to want the top students from the best private schools”
First off I’d like to see the data on students that have been accepted to both Ivy League schools and Big 10 schools and see which they chose. Second it seems like it may be either a financial issue for those students from high earning families who get accepted to both or a case of perceived value especially in the case of engineering degrees. Since the Ivy’s often only give need based aid, however generous, they will always be more expensive for high income professionals.
Actually, the comment of @momofsenior1 may be quite believable if the best Ivy League graduates are taken by traditional Ivy League employers (management consulting, Wall Street) who do not recruit at public flagships.
The large size of public flagships also means that it is likely that many of them have groups of top performing students within each class that may be larger than the entire class of an Ivy League school. So an employer can find a lot of quality there, with less competition from traditional Ivy League employers.
Big 10 schools offer a wider variety of majors–including undergraduate business & engineering specialties.
Without data, it’s hard to observe a pattern. Total undergraduate engineering enrollment in ivy schools does not likely exceed enrollment at just Purdue.
For work experience, co-ops extend graduation date. Most Ivy schools are invested in keeping a class together with high 4 year graduation rates. Students tend to create summer internships or participate in institutional research. Summer research is sometimes mandated by the science/engineering programs they are enrolled in. A higher percentage of students are pre-med students working on requirements for med school applications.
Students are successful finding internships near their home, often wanting to return for summers. They are from all over the world, so temporary recruitment is more difficult. More high income level students attend Ivies. Some make other summer choices freshman/sophomore year without the need to contribute to their living expenses or tuition.
Junior year recruitment for consulting and IB is an intense on campus process. Stem majors observe, learn and are often happy to seek opportunities without so much stress.
Much of the country needs to pay much higher tuition - up to $30k/year to attend an OOS top public so one cannot assume a comparison between in-state tuition and an Ivy. The northeast has not invested in higher education with so many private options. Those of paying state taxes would certainly like better instate programs.
FWIW, Top 25 Engineering Programs from USNW:
Big Ten: Minnesota, Maryland, Penn St, Illinois, Michigan, Purdue, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Ivy: Penn, Harvard, Cornell, Princeton, Columbia
Can’t really go wrong with either, but the Big Ten is producing way more engineers than the Ivys. Just for Maryland, since I’ve been researching them, here are their annual numbers for their three most popular engineering disciplines:
Mechanical Engineering: 350 B.S., 50 M.S., 45 Ph.D.
Civil Engineering: 134 B.S., 45 M.S., 20 Ph.D.
Aerospace Engineering: 100 B.S., 45 M.S., 15 Ph.D.
Other than engineering, and most kids don’t do engineering, most kids from anywhere don’t graduate “career ready” as such. They graduate educated, and having learnt how to learn, which is the most important atttibute for life long career success - even if you need training to start off with. Whether it’s ivy or top 10 or top-category-of-your-choosing, so many other factors affect who goes where and what they turn out like anyway.
@SJ2727 : Internships & initial job placement are important whether graduating from a Big 10 university or from an Ivy League school.
Actually, a lot more than just the engineering majors are studying pre-professional subjects that are intended to related to specific jobs and careers.
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cta.asp
Also, some students choosing liberal arts majors do so for pre-professional reasons.
I think the OP is interesting and thought provoking and the answer (if there was a way to quantify an answer) would be surprising. This question causes me to remember Hunter Rawlings.
Hunter Rawlings was the President of The University of Iowa in the late 80’s and early 90’s, before becoming President of Cornell. Immediately upon assuming the position at Iowa he made clear his goal was to raise admission standards to that of the Ivy League. His view, at the time, was that the education provided was close to Ivy quality and by raising the admissions requirements would soon equal or exceed the Ivy education. This was not well received and was never going to work given the requirement to educate the citizens of the state based on the public aspect of the school and was probably one reason he moved on to Cornell. That said, he felt the education was “close” 30 years ago and the Big Ten has only increased the quality since then.
Hunter Rawlings, after stepping down from Cornell, was the president of the AAU, often referred to as the most elite organization in education. I believe all of the Ivys and all of the Big Ten (except Nebraska) are members of the 62 university group. I think this would be a data point that the gap between Ivy Education and Big Ten is not as far as many would like to believe.
Of course you can choose liberal arts for ore-professional reasons - that’s part of learning how to learn.
Choosing a subject related to a career does not make you “career ready”. It shows your interest and gives you an educational introduction to it. What i said previously does not at all contradict with pre professional learning or internships. There is much more to preparing for a career than what you learn factually in college. Again, learning how to learn is key. As an economist, if all I knew was what I learnt in college 30 years ago, i’d be useless.
I don’t think that you can really compare the Ivy League and Big 10 due to the enormous differences in undergrad enrollment numbers. Ohio State alone has more than 75% as many undergrads as the entire Ivy League combined. Is it possible to obtain as good or better education attending a Big 10 school compared to an Ivy? Sure. Are top Big 10 grads the equal of their Ivy League counterparts? Probably. Will anyone ever confuse Harvard and Yale with the University of Indiana and Rutgers? No.
I don’t think too many top HS school students in New England are clamoring to head to any Big 10 School over the Ivies. I think some of the top kids from the area do apply to UMich, but I don’t think schools like Iowa,Illinois,Nebraska MSU, Minnesota are getting inundated with applications from these kids.
Do I think they can get a decent education in the Big 10? Yes.
Better education than an Ivy? Most likely not.
Do I think the kids coming out of those schools have access to the same types of jobs as the kids from the Ivies? Mostly no, but some of the top kids in certain fields/majors will still attract offers from leading firms.
@SJ2727 being career ready is something I personally find important. My son17 goes to Northeastern and with the ability to partake in 3 6 month long co-ops as part of their 5 year plan is well known to produce graduates who are totally ready to enter the workplace with knowledge and experience.
“Your husband is interviewing kids from Big Ten programs and elite university programs and finding the Big 10 school kids are more ready? I don’t see why that would be the case.”
There are a number of reasons why that is the case. One is the rigor, since there’s an actual curve at these schools, meaning, not everybody gets an A or a B even if they don’t know the material, a 3.0 (which is usually the cutoff) is well earned. Maybe because they had to really learn the material, they do better on interviews. Second as others have said, these schools are just better, yes better, for engineering and computer science than the ivies or most of them anyway. They have more professors doing leading edge research, more depth in courses, and some may have better internship opportunities.
And the other main reason, is fit, and state university grads just come off as easier to work with, maybe even more collaborative.
Makers me wonder how the Pac-12 programs fare… 
“There are a number of reasons why that is the case. One is the rigor, since there’s an actual curve at these schools, meaning, not everybody gets an A or a B even if they don’t know the material, a 3.0 (which is usually the cutoff) is well earned. Maybe because they had to really learn the material, they do better on interviews. Second as others have said, these schools are just better, yes better, for engineering and computer science than the ivies or most of them anyway. They have more professors doing leading edge research, more depth in courses, and some may have better internship opportunities.”
Disclaimer: In my area, major companies heavily recruit from our flagship engineering school and more than the Top 10 private college. It is partly due to the large number of graduates, trained in specific software or tools (e.g. SAS, Cisco ), and their preference to stay local.
However I disagree that the “rigor” at public schools is higher than the elite privates. The same material is taught more in-depth and the quality of classroom discussion is very different at the elite schools. The elite school graduates end up working on the coasts than staying local.
@iaparent Thanks for the info.
I heard a lot about Hunter Rawlings tenure at Cornell, but had no idea he was President of UIowa (am an alum)
Cornell has gotten most of its Presidents from Big 10 universities as Cornell identifies more as a Big 10 school than as an Ivy. If you do not agree, then use google to find out past statements from Cornell trustees & Presidents.
In my opinion, Northwestern & Cornell should be traded, but Northwestern is unlikely to leave the riches of Big 10 membership.