<p>An important consideration is the probable major. Many/most college freshmen will choose/change their major after starting college. Which college likely has the major and courses of interest? What is the relative reputaion of those fields? Average professors do not trump top ones- being in average Prof X’s class versus hearing top Prof Y with top TA Z leading the discussion… Check on courses taken for majors he is interested in. Will he want courses at either school not available at the other? </p>
<p>You can find friends and activites no matter where you are, but the academics differ. Flagship U works best for those who want their electives to be in fields they never heard of and take purely for the fun of it- think seemingly totally useless, obscure courses. But if the curriculum at the small college offers what he wants- go there.</p>
<p>wis75 and ucprofmom, both of you have hit on the main issue -concern that the LAC does not have enough courses in his current area of interest (non-bio science). Looking at the common data set and degrees offered by majors really helped me understand how limited this might be at the LAC. While it could be great to be one of a handful of students working with a professor, if you don’t happen to like the professor of if he or she is not doing anything of interest to you, it could be a rather large negative. </p>
<p>Of course, the flip side is that the highly regarded professors at a big U may be focused on research and grad students and have no time or interest in undergraduate education. Not something that is easy to determine prior to attendance. The grad student TAs are focused on their own research and likely have little to no teaching experience or a good ability to answer questions. </p>
<p>Good point about having a wide range of electives at the larger school as well.</p>
<p>In science the undergrad may get chances to work in a grad lab- this happens at our flagship. LACs do not specialize in the sciences, there will be many more opportunities at the big U. Perhaps engineering will appeal as a practical application of a science interest. Also, large schools have enough students taking intro science courses that they often offer more than one version- no “one size fits all” courses, as well as more specific subject matter- no general biology but zoology and botany intro courses available. Plus all sorts of more obscure science courses available. Probably better computer science facilities/courses and cross listed courses in math/science that appeal to the math/physics/chemistry/comp sci student (that’s nonbio science to me- astronomy being related to physics).</p>
<p>TA’s tend to be the newer grad students- the research fellowships more often come later so the TA’s are likely to be closer to their own undergrad experiences. </p>
<p>More likely to find more students who share his science interest. More chances to sit in on noncourse lectures to see if a field intrigues him.</p>
<p>You can make some small schools larger. Take a junior year abroad (or even at a different US school if it participates in those programs.) Pick a small school that is part of a consortium and take courses at the other schools. Pick the biggest major at the small school. Do summer research at a larger school. </p>
<p>Personally I liked having a mix of seminar type classes and large lectures. I didn’t like either the tiny LACs or the huge state universities. Both my kids ended up a mid-size universities which I think are a nice balance between the two options.</p>
<p>Just when I am thinking the big school has moved up to number 1, S tells me he spent his lunch hour talking to a young teacher that went to Muhlenberg and raved about how wonderful it was! Back on board the SS Indecision. </p>
<p>I spent my lunch hour running numbers. While current costs are scary, the price for my now middle schooler were terrifying, assuming a 4% increase in costs per year at private schools and 10% at State Us. Not sure how this can possibly be sustainable. </p>
<p>We are going to visit over the weekend and early next week. Hopefully, that will help clarify the choice.</p>
I feel the same way but now that S has made HIS choice I’m still happy. Being able to fund tuition, fees, room and board with existing savings sure doesn’t hurt.</p>
<p>A woman in our parish has a D who had a UMich/Wellesley choice. They really pushed her to go to W, for all of the right reasons. And they were right. But the D blames every little thing that goes wrong, and, yes, a lot of things can and do go wrong anywhere, on W. It’s a powerful thing to have the student having made the choice.</p>
<p>My son is in the exact same situation, and I also appreciate this discussion! We go to admitted students day for the small school next week, but he has told us he does not need to revisit big school (on the other coast) so I’m guessing the admitted students day thing will make or break it for him. </p>
<p>Either way, it is his choice. We’ve tried to emphasize that both are fine choices, and he’ll do well at either school. While this is a big decision for him, I don’t want him thinking that one path = successful future, and the other = failure, and he better get it right.</p>
<p>Both myS’s chose large state u’s. They both had the large intro. classes for sciences but math, english, social sciences (except intro. Psyc) were normal size classes (25-40 students). They only had TA’s/grad. students for labs. </p>
<p>There were sometimes options of big or small classes for the same course.
S2 chose the 150 seat intro to Pol. Sci. class over the 35 seat section because the 150 class teacher got the best reviews.</p>
<p>My oldest only wanted the small LAC. In retrospect, she didn’t realize how isolated out in the country really can be. It was a 20 minute drive to Target or Walmart. She had some amazing professors, ones she still emails and talks of fondly with real relationships. She has done amazing things- but small can be small.
My second looked for smaller schools as well, he didn’t want the huge lecture hall atmosphere. He threw in a big school and I’m still not sure why. In the end, it came down to a very small engineering school and the large school. He was not even excited when he got accepted to the large school but called me excitedly about the small school when he got the phone call from a student. We visited both and he fully expected to love the small school. Nope, we came home with him enrolling in the large school. He will say now, he can’t imagine himself at the small school without the sports and without the major opportunities he’s made for himself at the large school. that’s the big key, will they make the opportunities for themselves (and I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that he could before he was a senior in high school. Who he appeared to me and who he really was as a senior were two different things). He’s had those large classes with profs he can’t understand. He’s had to have tutoring when he couldn’t get it from the professor. But he’s sailing now as a junior with an amazing future in front of him. and a lot of it is from the big school</p>
<p>^^Just to add another counterexample: friends at my LAC complain about their intermediate-level courses in larger majors (e.g. psych, econ, polisci) being ~30 students and TOO BIG. The student perception of “normal”/ideal at my LAC is around 15. Depending on the department, labs are led by tenured profs or adjunct lecturers (at least an MA). Students choose classes based on professor, as always, but the choice is 35-seat over 15-seat for a “better” prof.</p>
<p>In the end, it depends on the student. Having visited HS friends there, I would have been happy at my state U (which isn’t that big for a public U, more mid-size), but I wouldn’t have gone out of my comfort zone socially or the professor intimacy I’ve found at my LAC. I met a professor yesterday in the mailroom, the prof of an 8-person elective that I took last semester, and we’re planning to get coffee next week just to catch up. This particular relationship is definitely unique and unusual, but IMO made possible by my college environment.</p>
<p>If you’re happy with your choice, you’ll discover unique opportunities at ANY school, no matter the size.</p>
<p>Great discussion. Both my D’s picked large State U’s. With D1, size was never an issue. D2, who I had thought was a little shyer & would prefer a smaller, more nurturing environment, chose UW-Madison over a couple smaller schools, and is thriving there.</p>
<p>A disclaimer–this does not IN ANY WAY say that bigger is better. An LAC with some nice merit money that is comparable cost-wise to Big State U. could be a fine choice indeed. Would I pay substantially more money for a small school? Absolutely not.</p>
<p>Be sure that when you listen to the praise of an alumnus that the major is known- what may have been a great experience for an English major may not be the same for a science major.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter how large the lecture is- that format is for getting information, not discussion. The peer group matters in a discussion as much as the person leading it. You don’t want a professor not getting through all of the material because students took the time with their questions. A TA may offer a different perspective on the professor’s material- two approaches to problem solving or hints about the prof. A larger student population gives more diversity in opinions- not as likely to encounter the same students over and over, even in upper level courses.</p>
<p>Consider the available ECs. Large U’s do have club sports, all student music groups and other options for those not good enough to make the team/performance group. </p>
<p>Consider if everything a student could want is likely available on/near campus. Do students stay on campus most weekends because there is so much going on there is no reason to leave? </p>
<p>My bias is for most flagship U’s over most private LAC’s, especially in sciences, since the state school will have an Honors capable peer group of those who couldn’t afford a better private school (or didn’t want one) as well as the huge number of diverse course offerings and activites.</p>
<p>Our d (a theater major in the fall) had exactly this choice. All we knew was that she wasn’t going to stay in CA. Her top 2 choices were U. of MN-Twin Cities and Muhlenberg. She was accepted at Wisconsin, Kansas, Drew and Muhlenberg, waitlisted at MN. In the end MN said no (even though a theater professor pushed Admissions for her) and Muhlenberg was the easy choice.</p>
<p>Just to update, the final choice was Big School. The opportunities in science, the location in a small city, the diverse population and the no debt won him over. This was even after an admit off the wait list to a medium sized school with a more diverse population, but in a very suburban locale. I am happy for him, but somewhat concerned about the size.</p>
<p>Wonderful news that your son made his decision! </p>
<p>Two years back my d also chose the big school, (USC) over some other smaller, excellent alternatives. She made the choice and never looked back. She has flourished! She is so happy it warms my heart. She is a thoughtful, very studious, somewhat quite personality and had to work a bit to initially connect with her roommates and dorm mates. She attended the club fairs and she got involved on an intramural sport team and joined a club. She went to all her smaller discussions, study groups and labs and visited her professors during their office hours to get answers to questions…even if it was massively inconvenient. It helped her make that personal connection with her professors.</p>
<p>From the personal-happiness perspective… The bigger school will become a lot smaller when your son gets invoved. It takes a bit of courage that first time to walk into a room full of strangers, but they won’t be strangers for long. Best of luck to him, I hope he loves it.</p>