<p>We are on the SS Indecision, deciding between Muhlenberg and Big State U. Cost of Big State U is lower, but not huge difference although kid would have to take the 5K per year loan.</p>
<p>Issue is that Big State U is very big and concern about lecture classes, lack of advising, TAs teaching instead of profs, and being a "number". Advantages include the diversity, near a small city, wide array of majors and the depth and breadth of science offerings, as well as cost.</p>
<p>Muhlenberg is very welcoming and friendly, profs are very accessible, low key, but concerns are that the science offerings (except in bio which child is not interested in) are slim. Have opportunity to take at some other schoosl, but probably require a car and a lot of time. May also be too "preppy" and small. Advantages are the personal touch and being taught by professors who, apparently, really get to know the students. Kids seem to really love this school. Cost something of a disadvantage, esp because of student loan. </p>
<p>Any opinions? Going back to visit again, but just not sure how to make this decision! Child is also very unsure. Was not this hard with older one!</p>
<p>We too went thru the same type of decision. Lehigh vs. Purdue. My D chose Purdue mainly for the big name recognition, but because of price. One thing that Purdue does, that is awesome, is that they have Learning communities - our D chose the Honors engineering program, and will be put in smaller classes, plus into a dorm that also has honors engineering students. Makes the university seem smaller already. Check to see if the larger state school has this available. We also know that Purdue has so many more co-op/internship opportunites than some smaller schools - something else you might want to look into. Good Luck!!</p>
<p>in 2006, our kid had the same decision to make. She chose the smaller U. Main reason…there was a strong likelihood that she would not have been able to get her required courses and graduate in FOUR years…thus adding costs and time. She graduated from her smaller U in four years with a double major…something that would not have happened at the big state U.</p>
<p>I think it depends on your kid’s personality. Kids who are self-starter, go-getter types can get everything they need at a big school even if they don’t get a lot of handholding. And they often thrive on the bustle and diversity. If your kid is a serious science major, he may find the presence of graduate programs and students exciting, especially in his later years: there are typically lots of visiting speakers, research opportunities, and so on. On the other hand, if your kid is more introverted or passive, I think a small school may work better even if the academic program or facilities don’t look as impressive on paper.</p>
<p>For instance, at many big state schools, one-on-one faculty advising of student is deficient, especially in the first couple of years before kids declare their majors. It’s not that it’s impossible to get good advice, but the schools do not typically put a lot of resources into this area. Likewise, if a kid is doing poorly in a course, or stops attending classes, nobody will come running after him to inquire why. Now, a self-starter type kid will simply go to his assigned advisor’s office hours to ask for advice about classes, or, if he starts having trouble in a class, will seek out the tutoring that is available on every campus. But a less assertive kid might not even think of doing those things.</p>
<p>When your son imagines where he would like to live after college, does he fantasize about a big city, or would he prefer a rural or village setting?</p>
<p>Edited to add: like a previous poster, I suggest you check and see if the big school has some kind of subcommunities for students: residential colleges, “learning communities,” etc. These can temper the impersonality. When I was an undergraduate I lived in a small, intense scholarship house at Cornell, and the combination of social intimacy with drinking-from-the-firehouse academics was perfect.</p>
<p>but I don’t think that Muhlenberg is considered “rural”; it’s an hour and a half from NYC and an hour or so from philly; more suburban than rural…</p>
<p>We actually decided to make this choice VERY early in the process and for the reasons discussed in the previous two posts, chose (relatively) small…Muhlenberg was my daughter’s #2</p>
<p>Son not in honors college and no freshman learning communities. The concern is that he is not, or at least has not been, a highly motivated student (reason why the medium sized, top choices did not come through with enough $$). However, he is OK at talking to teachers and making connections. One of my reasons for wanting the smaller school was that the profs may notice if he is falling behind. However, he would still have to do the work no matter where he goes. </p>
<p>One issue is the 4-year grad rate (just over 50% at big state U). However, it is likely he will have some AP credits and will probaby be able to finish within 4 years or at most 4.5 and could live at home for the last semester (could also do a summer class fairly easily). He knows that cost of school beyond 4 years would be on him (although if it ends up being impossible to finish due to circumstance beyond his control, that may be negotiable). </p>
<p>I agree with jingle, it depends a lot on the kid. If they’re good at getting what they want/figuring stuff out on their own/meeting people and making friends, the difference between a large school and a small school may be negligible. </p>
<p>This is not a perfect metaphor, but in my mind it’s a little bit like choosing between Disney Land and Disney World. Some people prefer Disney Land, it’s older and more established, has the benefit of tradition and experience, and it’s easier to navigate. There’s just one park and you can do it all in one day, and if you want to meet the princess, you don’t have to walk as far to do it. Some people on the other hand, prefer Disney World. It’s much larger and somewhat more difficult to navigate and overwhelming, but you have the opportunity to visit multiple parks and see and experience more than is available at Disney Land. You may not get to meet the princess until your third or fourth day, but you get to visit Animal Kingdom as well as Epcot. It can mean a longer visit, but can also provide some enrichment that Disney Land cannot. In the end though, they’re both Disney and hopefully you will come away from both feeling happy.</p>
<p>The big vs. small question is a tough one because it really depends on the school and the student. Have you posted on your big state U’s forum on CC? You might get some more specific feedback.</p>
<p>My son did not have big lecture classes after freshman year as he moved into mid- and upper-level courses. Interestingly, a couple of his favorite teachers taught large classes. At his school, some classes (e.g., English, his minor) are always small. He has never had a TA as a teacher, except in a discussion section, but he has had them as graders, with mixed reviews. His advising seems pretty good, and I think it helps that his major department is relatively small. He has never had much trouble getting classes. There’s some advisor involvement that seems to guarantee him a place in classes he needs. For the rest, he just makes sure he goes online the second registration opens up.</p>
<p>Socially, he says the advantage of a big school is the variety of people and things to do. He went to very small schools through grade 12 and now is happy to be part of a large, bustling community in a nice college town. I like Smithie’s Disney metaphor!</p>
<p>I understand your concern about motivation, but don’t count on hand-holding. My H, a college professor, is very attentive to students, but he believes their ultimate success is up to them. He does write extensive comments on tests and papers, suggest that they come see him, etc. But it’s up to them to follow up.</p>
<p>Our S is in the same situation…in this case it’s UMASS or Clark. Giving him until the end of the week to decide. I have concerns about him going to a larger school but it’s ultimately up to him. I’m hoping that if he decides on UMASS that he will find ways to make the big school smaller…</p>
<p>Clark was on his short list as well, but think it has fallen to third, Hammer. Good luck to your son on making his choice. Definitely a similar choice.</p>
<p>There is likely no bad choice, but certainly two very different experiences. I am becoming more comfortable with the big school, but still concerned. I also have to remember that college is different than HS and I see more maturity even as this year draws to an end. </p>
<p>Thanks to all for your comments, all good points to consider, but still not sure how to decide.</p>
<p>But Disneyland is all the way in California. ;)</p>
<p>To the OP–all I can say is try not to fret, re-visit if you can, let your kid make the final decision when he/she is ready.</p>
<p>I’m also on the SS Indecision with DS2. I think a smaller school would be better for him. So does his college counselor. I’m fairly certain that’s not where he will end up.</p>
<p>Bottom line is your kid will be successful regardless. Different experiences through the four years, but pros and cons to each. (It did not help when I visited DS#1 at his <em>lovely</em> little LAC last weekend. Could not help but think what a nice, safe, friendly environment it is.)</p>
<p>I should also point out that one of the <many> thought-provoking CC posts I’ve read on this topic pointed out that all the “personal relationship” stuff with smaller schools may or may not work out for any individual. DS#2 is very shy–I can’t see him approaching a professor in a 15-person class any more than in a 150-person class.</many></p>
<p>My bottom line is that I don’t want to make this decision for my child (and hope he would not let me). I’ll continue to occasionally ask, “What about <great little=”" lac=“”>?" and “Are you sure you don’t want to do a quick trip to <really tiny=”" but=“” wonderful=“” lac=“”> this weekend?" over the next few weeks but that’s really all I can do.</really></great></p>
<p>The way you describe Big State U “the diversity, near a small city, wide array of majors and the depth and breadth of science offerings, as well as cost” it sounds wonderful so I’m wondering which Big State U is it? Are you IS or OOS for Big State U?</p>
<p>Much as I know a lot of people whose kids are very happy at Muhlenberg specifically and LACs in general, my D is interested in diverse Big State U’s not located in remote areas, so I’d really like to know which one this is!!</p>
<p>I recall a post in the last year or so on this forum stating that the “personal relationship” strength that small LACs so often promote, does not necessarily work for all students. I, too, think a small to medium school would be best for my son, but I can also now see the limitations in terms of majors and the beadth of course offerings, especially in sciences. </p>
<p>Agree that the decision has to come from him and will work out fine either way. As with any big choice, there will always be “the road not taken”. Luckily, we don’t get to see down that road and there are many paths to future success. </p>
<p>My oldest is also shy and is at a medium-sized U (about 5000 UGs). He would only approach a professor that is very open. With him, I had worried that a small school would be too small and it would be hard for him to find his niche. He is very happy with his small group of friends and one main activity, along with a great Jr semester abroad. While I don’t think he took advantage of everything his school had to offer (socially or academically), he certainly has been happy and has grown. I am not sure a very small school would have offered him anything more.</p>
<p>A tour guide at UMASS told us that “you can make a large school smaller but you can’t make a small school larger”. Any thoughts on this statement?</p>
<p>IMO it is a personal choice. Putting cost aside and assuming similar undergrad program/rank, I believe they both have their pros and cons as pointed out repeatedly here on this thread.</p>
<p>Couple additional points -
a) Big school is more diverse and will give your S/D a better sense of the real world, less hand-holding, more fighting for limited resources, networking with more people…however, you are just a number to them until you get to your upper division classes.</p>
<p>b) Small school is more focus with smaller class-size, with real instructors do the teaching and lead discussions. They don’t normally have the economy of scale or the luxury to offer a variety of classes and the frequency of those classes. You will definitely get close attention from the faculties and staffs who often know you personally. </p>
<p>I believe you gain different things from these 2 different environments and both are important, so it is a trade-off. By the time you make it to grad-school which usually is big school, it will all become moot.</p>
<p>Choice of major has a large influence on making a large school smaller. In a small major (let’s say “Russian literature” just for the sake of argument), you can get that small school experience – very small classes and lots of interaction with profs. If you are in a large popular major like biology, psychology or econ at a large school, you may find that you can graduate never having had more than 1 or 2 major classes with fewer than 100+ students (excluding lab sections which are smaller but taught by TAs). So that’s something to keep in mind when thinking about likely major and size of school.</p>
<p>Someone I know says her college senior wouldn’t choose her school again because its size was a disadvantage. Her major was particularly small, and she didn’t click with the other majors. The school is relatively isolated, and that was a drawback. She had gone to small schools in K-12 and gravitated toward the same thing, never realizing that she’d be tired of knowing everyone. And she’s a socially confident person, so personality wasn’t an issue.</p>
<p>At a smaller school, you never know how you’re going to fit with your particular class cohort. At a larger school, the cohort is (as others have said) more varied in many ways. You can seek out compatible people and usually find them. On the other hand, I’m a graduate of a small college, and the best thing about my four years was my peers and the lifelong friends I made.</p>
<p>Just had another thought: I’ve realized that my S is a “love the one you’re with” kind of a guy. After surviving the disappointment of two summer possibilities falling through, he’s now set for the summer and thrilled about what he’s going to be doing. He has done the same thing with his big school: made it work for him. It depends on the kid, and they really do surprise us.</p>