<p>Hmmmm - I'd think just as big a threat are internal lay-offs in the high tech industry - expert workers replaced by much cheaper 3rd world counter parts. Any opinion on that, Mr. Gates?</p>
<p>He knows that if the much cheaper 3rd world counter parts are there, we don't use them the 3rd world will. Hence the threat to our domination.</p>
<p>Full disclosure - I work for a software outsourcing company with most of our people in Shanghai, China.</p>
<p>I don't find the former profiteer and thief of the work of others particulary compelling on any high tech issue. He got lucky once and used that to bully his way the rest of the ascent. He is far from an oracle on high tech.</p>
<p>I have observed that many very bright students who are talented in math and related areas are choosing finance-related careers instead of technical careers. It is widely perceived that opportunities are greater in this field than in the technical fields, including computer-related careers. I think that fear of layoffs and threat of job outsourcing may be more the cause of fewer students choosing technical careers, rather than a shortage of qualified Americans being the cause of the outsourcing.</p>
<p>MOT--I was just about to add that. Pay a better wage to attract the best instead of relying more on cheaper import labor. A few years ago they were lining up to major in CS and work in the field. Then the bottom fell out and many people were out of work while gates prefers cheaper imports. He knows he can't compete with Google for the best US kids and won't hire people with 10 years exp because they want more $$$.</p>
<p>What shortage? I don't believe there is a shortage. It's a scam to bring more non-US workers here.</p>
<p>Hey guys. The best IS the cheaper imported labor. The old model of cheap shoddy overseas is done.</p>
<p>This is not about Microsoft being able to hire kids from Google. It is about having enough math and science trained 21-year olds in the US, wherever they come from. Because if we don't train them here they will be trained in India and China. And they will stay there. And they are not second-rate. Not any more</p>
<p>My own theory is that math and science are hard as heck in college and only the hungry, metaphorically hungry, are willing to make the effort.</p>
<p>The pay is so-so, the work sucks, the hours suck, the co-workers are 90% male geeks. Yes, let's sign on for that. Or I could work in investments or sales, make more money, fly around the country and eat good food, have at least normal co-workers and maybe meet a future gf/bf with a tan and good manners.</p>
<p>I actually agree with Gates on the education issue. Americans as a whole (I do not mean the CC-type communities, but as a WHOLE) are not well educated. Our standards ARE all-too-often low, and our schools ARE all-too-often inadequate. </p>
<p>However, I believe that the primary reason Americans aren't going whole hog into technology is the relative insecurity of many specific tech careers, the increasingly difficult demands on workers in corporate America, and the huge (some could say criminally huge) pay differences between workers and executives. It pays to manage. It doesn't pay to DO, literally and metaphorically speaking. And until that changes Americans (who are very practical as a people) will choose other careers. </p>
<p>I don't see these issues addressed in Bill Gates' speech - and I'm one who will be sending a son to a Bill Gates' funded science & technology high school next year...</p>
<p>Best thing is that we don't have to import it. We can outsource, and pay wages that are appropriate to the scale in the country we're outsourcing to (no sweatshops here!), and we can get highly skilled people at less wages than we pay in the US. Not exploitative, at least according to my Indian friends.</p>
<p>Hehe, barrons, yeah, our sales force get to live large whether or not they actually perform....but they are the first we cut when we do layoffs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have observed that many very bright students who are talented in math and related areas are choosing finance-related careers instead of technical careers. It is widely perceived that opportunities are greater in this field than in the technical fields, including computer-related careers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes! The financial rewards are so out of whack, and I believe that our society is really going to pay for it. An enormous number of our "best and brightest" will spend their time designing new financial products rather than inventing new technology.</p>
<p>I'd like to know which 8 states he was referring to which have no math requirement to graduate from high school.</p>
<p>Most sales people I know (and it's a lot) work on a performance pay basis and are the last to go if they make good numbers. Any company that fires sales people first is dumb and doomed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The pay is so-so, the work sucks, the hours suck, the co-workers are 90% male geeks. Yes, let's sign on for that. Or I could work in investments or sales, make more money, fly around the country and eat good food, have at least normal co-workers and maybe meet a future gf/bf with a tan and good manners.
[/quote]
Barrons:
As someone who's been in the computer business for over 30 years, I disagree with this broad generalization.</p>
<p>
[quote]
An enormous number of our "best and brightest" will spend their time designing new financial products rather than inventing new technology.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>New financial products make economic incentives work better, which could lead to inventing more new technology of other kinds.</p>
<p>I know a few qualified Phds that interviewed with Microsoft recently, all over 55 years old, did not get a job with Microsoft. Microsoft has more marketing managers and spends less money on research, compare for the size of this company, nothing cutting edge comes out from Microsoft. So base on this experience I don't think there is a shortage.
Microsoft is a sweat shop period.</p>
<p>Quoted: "Most sales people I know (and it's a lot) work on a performance pay basis and are the last to go if they make good numbers. Any company that fires sales people first is dumb and doomed."</p>
<p>Hah, I wish we could pay our sales staff based on what they brought in and not what is projected. But we start-ups get more $$$ based on our projecteds than our actuals......to my personal chagrin.</p>
<p>Yeah, this is very OT, but being from the "please finance us because we have a great commercial product that some big co. will eventually buy" industry, I'd really prefer to outsource certain of our operations if it could produce the same results but cheaper for the bottom line.</p>
<p>My experience is you can get 5 programmers in Bangalore for what you can get one for here. And you'll need to if you want to get the job done in twice the time.</p>
<p>Bill Gate raised a valid concern about our technical leadership. "By 2010, if the current trends continue, over 90% of all physical scientists and engineers in the world will be Asians working in Asia." The trend is unmistakable and the impact will be felt sooner than people are prepared for.</p>