<p>Come on guys, let's be mature... all this bickering is frankly quite irritating and not helpful in dealing with the real issue at hand.</p>
<p>OK you Wechsler wonks, can you tell me when in the school year that these campus surveys were conducted? In several of the various Britsh surveys that were mentioned in an earlier link it stated that they were conducted during the first part of the school year, i.e., in the fall. If Wechsler did the same thing, his results will have been extremely biased by whether the particular school had a significant football following. </p>
<p>For example, the above mentioned Michigan study, if done in the fall would likely reflect a significantly higher "binge" rate than if the study were conducted outside of football season. Who knows, maybe the non-football related drinking is no different than at a school like Swat. Compounded by the arbitrary definition of "binge drinking" being so low that it doesn't really capture truly problematic drinking, it's hard to really conclude much of anything from the study.</p>
<p>Wechsler's surveys, and all of the internal surveys I've seen reported (Williams, Dartmouth, COFHE, CORE, etc) are usually given during the second semester -- Feb., March, April timeframes.</p>
<p>I am always dubious about surveys. i would prefer more concrete data such as the number of kids admitted in life threatening mode to hospitals due to drinking and the number of kids dying from overdrinking, as a measure as to whether drinking/binge drinking/dangerous drinking has increased in the last 20-30 years. </p>
<p>But regardless of whether it has increased or even slightly decreased, it is a problem. There are going to be many kids who who did not drink at home, who are going into an environemnt where uncontrolled drinking is often the norm. How does one prepare these kids for this environment? Words just do not suffice. My heart went out for the Pittsburgh family who recently lost their freshman son at Kenyon in an alcohol related death. If anyone wants to see firsthand how extensive drinking and drunkenness on a college campus is these days, just visit those hot spots and see for yourself. How will your child handle this environment? What can colleges do to cut down on this scene? What can we do as parents help our kids get through this period of their lives without a disaster?</p>
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Compounded by the arbitrary definition of "binge drinking" being so low that it doesn't really capture truly problematic drinking
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<p>Actually, Wechsler's research captures the really problematic drinking quite nicely: his "frequent binge drinker" category -- those who have consumed five drinks in a row (four for women) three or more times in the prior two weeks. This frequent binge category is about one half of the total binge drinkers (22% versus 44%) and that ratio seems to hold reasonably well at the individual schools.</p>
<p>Another piece of Wechsler's survey data confirms how well this measures really serious drinking. It is probably not a coincidence that an identical 22% of the surveyed students reported drinking on 10 or more occasions during the previous 30 days.</p>
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i would prefer more concrete data such as the number of kids admitted in life threatening mode to hospitals due to drinking
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<p>Alcohol related hospitalizations would be the single piece of information that I wish colleges were forced to report. In fact, it was the one question I asked of the director of health services at my daughter's school.</p>
<p>ID, the fact that you are now diddling with categories such as "frequent" Wechsler binge drinkers, as opposed to the merely "standard" Wechsler binge drinkers makes your position even sillier. What next..."almost" Wechlser binge drinkers? Would that be 4-5 beers over the course of an evening, once every 2 years?</p>
<p>I think they should have to report the frequency of overprotective overinvolved parents trying to force nursery school rules on young adults. Let's bring back 10pm curfews and open dorm room doors. That will cut down on all kinds of hanky-panky.</p>
<p>Haha, well said, Barrons</p>
<p>You guys are startin' to sound like Rush Limbaugh arguments now. It is quite possible to be concerned about binge drinking rates on various college campuses AND pleased with a college that enforces few, if any regulations on its students. </p>
<p>The issue is one of campus culture. Efforts to change campus culture may require the imposition of rules in some cases. However, the rules are, at best, an attempt to address the underlying problem. A far preferable solution is a campus culture, such as that found at many US colleges, that doesn't embrace widespread, dangerous binge drinking.</p>
<p>UMDAD,</p>
<p>I apologize for misinterpreting your statements. As you can see, there are plenty of people who are minimizing the issue. I mistakenly thought you were one of them.</p>
<p>As for those who want to deny the College Alcohol Study in its entirety, because you don't like the definition of "binge", or because you think concern about drinking is overblown, these are different than refuting its conclusions. The way to do the latter is to do your own studies, submit them for peer review, and get them published. Show us that there is less drinking, or that drinking is less harmful, than we think. Pot shots at a widely published researcher are not substitutes for data.</p>
<p>My concern is not a puritanical attempt to control my children. They don't drink, and they want to be able to go to college without the effects of second hand alcohol abuse interfering with their lives.</p>
<p>Speaking only as someone who just spent a LONG time reading this entire thread because I am very concerned about my son's welfare as a freshman next year--a son who has chosen his friends and social occasions in high school to avoid drunken slobs at his school--all I can say is PLEASE skip the nastiness and stick with the thougthful, to-the-point posts that can help us all. The kind of bickering that has occasionally marred this thread is what has run me off of the board for the college my son will be attending.</p>
<p>Thanks especially to Xiggi for the direct statement of what ought to be done to help create a less-likely-to-fail environment for the students: getting rid of frats.</p>
<p>For the rest, I will continue to read and learn and then talk with my son about ways to maintain his own standards while having the social life he wants next year. ALL sincere helpfulness is enormously appreciated here!</p>
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ALL sincere helpfulness is enormously appreciated here!
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<p>I make no claim of having any answers. But, my hunch is that an effective approach is a dialog with our kids about the difference between moderate social drinking and risky high BAC drinking. I think this is particularly important for kids who have not been drunks in high school. For example, a simple discussion about techniques adults use to pace their drinking: a cocktail, followed by a coke, followed by a cocktail, etc. could be a conversation that is remembered. Basically, "You're an adult now and here's how adults behave."</p>
<p>Or, when a student dies of alchohol poisoning, a discussion of exactly how much alcohol is required to reach a BAC of .30 or .40 or whatever the case may be. I mean, it's not rocket science. Most smart kids ought to be able to grasp the notion that, if you try to drink 21 shots of whiskey on your 21st birthday, you run a very real risk of killing yourself.</p>
<p>I don't think preaching abstinence is likely to be particularly successful.</p>
<p>I'm not really sure what those comments mean, Barron, Driver & co. Do you think that things are better, worse, the same as they were for the last generation, and more importantly is the status quo with its death/damage stats "acceptable" damages? Is it not a concern to you? Do you have any ideas on what could be done to improve the situation? Or is this all part of what we should consider accepted campus culture?</p>
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You guys are startin' to sound like Rush Limbaugh arguments now.
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Even Rush Limbaugh wouldn't resort to the illogic of shutting down all frats because of the incidences that have happened at a few.</p>
<p>I don't think shutting down all frats because of the incidences that have happened at a few is what anyone is suggesting. I would like to see frats become proponents of alcohol free parties. With all that brotherly love and personality, what the heck do you need the booze? I would like to see those frats who are irresponsible get shut down, and if this is done strictly, I don't think there will be too many left.</p>
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Do you think that things are better, worse, the same as they were for the last generation, and more importantly is the status quo with its death/damage stats "acceptable" damages?
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<p>I think that is an excellent question and that is one of the problems with the continuing use of the Wechsler study which does not address the issue of true problematic drinking with his continued use of the term "binge drinking" defined at such a low level over an indeterminate amount of time. The result is a lot of pot churning but not much real data to use.</p>
<p>One really helpful suggestion that my son's host at his college had for him was that, if one is in a room full of people who might otherwise press one to drink, hanging onto A beer for the evening works well. Turns out my son had already figured that one out for himself and used it but was so disgusted at having to "babysit" the drunks at the so-called "movie nights" (including one on meds for bipolar who poisoned himself with alcohol and made it his classmates' problem) that he just stopped going after the second time he found there were no movies. That's the kind of young man I'm talking about. </p>
<p>You're right--this kind of person isn't stupid and will quickly figure out how to handle light drinking or none at all, if that's how he wants to go on. It also helps that he has already met at least one smart guy--his host--who handles it all well and understands the consequences of drinking too much. I still want to know more about how to help. I DO intend to have a very concrete fact-based talk with him about what it takes to get alcohol poisoning before he goes, but I think he already knows quite a bit about that.</p>
<p>As I said, I'll hang around and listen. I'm sure there will be more I can use.</p>
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I don't think shutting down all frats because of the incidences that have happened at a few is what anyone is suggesting.
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<p>Logic would say that, but yet if you go back and read what both ID and Xiggi posted, that is exactly what they are advocating.</p>
<p>Alcohol poisoning, bad judgement because of overdrinking, underage drinking,all can lead to trouble beyond what a student can handle. Right now the popular culture is such that drinking in college is the thing to do. What can be done to counter this? Is this drunken stage a rite of passage we want to keep in our culture?</p>