Biomedical graduate school...a question from a noob

Graduate School
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<p>Hey I just found out about this website recently. A friend recommended it to me a while back. He lurks these forums and said they were pretty useful so I joined.</p>

<p>I'm an undergrad who just finished his 2nd yr in a Canadian school---University of Toronto. I'm sure some of you have heard of it.</p>

<p>Well at the moment I am enrolled in a specialist program in Molecular Genetics and Microbiology (some of you may not know what a specialist is down in the states but it's abt the same as your Major cept a bit more focused--in other words a specialist in my program would have to take more genetics and micro courses durin his/her undergrad than a major would have to in most majors down in the states). </p>

<p>ANYways, some may think I'm worrying too much but I'd just like to gauge where I prolly will stand less than 2yrs from now.</p>

<p>Well the program I'm in is part of a group of programs (biochem--immunology--mol.gen&micro) and they are hardcore grad school preparation.</p>

<p>The problem is these programs are extremely intense and are pretty infamous for being difficult to do well in---hence the high dropout rate out of these programs. This is just an extension of the difficult nature of the university i'm in. UofT is sorta infamous for how difficult it can be.</p>

<p>I know most comparable research schools in the states usually have the top 10% GPA bracket at about 3.7+ or higher but at my school top 10% is only 3.5+. So that's a problem for me.</p>

<p>The good thing is it's easily the best biomedical research university in Canada and as far as I know provides quite possibly the most focused research oriented undergrad experience. Most of the research hospitals and heavy duty research labs are within walking distance so research experience is def not a problem here.</p>

<p>However, getting a good GPA is a problem. Especially in a program like mine. Pretty darn intense. Our dept. (who's had significant success placing students in top grad schools in the states) says that the grades should not be a problem but considering how harsh they are with grades, I can't see that being the case. They tell me that most prestigious US grad schools know the reputation of the programs in other schools and do consider the intensity of the courseload. I know the latter statement is true.</p>

<p>I haven't decided what specific fields I'll be applying to (genetics/immunology/microbiology/pathology (microbial).</p>

<p>Anyways, considering how things are going and where I'll prolly find myself in 4th yr, I think my stats will look something like this.</p>

<p>GPA~3.45 to 3.6
Obviously don't have a clue abt the GREs.
research experience; research project 2nd yr summer, 4th yr level research project course during 3rd yr, research project 3rd yr summer, another advanced 4th yr research project during my 4th yr.
Hopefully I can get a publication prior to graduation. My PI for my current 2nd yr summer project says there is a good chance of publishing but I'm def not counting on it.</p>

<p>Anyways, I do plan on applying to only the top biomedical graduate schools in the states---Stanford, MIT, Cornell, Chicago, Columbia, Yale, Princeton, Johns Hopkins, Rockefeller, Harvard, etc. My reasoning is that if it isn't better than UofT, might as well not bother applying to it. I'm not wasting my time with "SAFE" schools. The only schools in Canada I'll be applying to are UofT (although I don't rlly plan on staying in Toronto), McGill, and UBC.</p>

<p>Now my question is will my GPA hurt me?
I know my research experience and intense courseload will definitely set me apart from a large portion of the application pool. </p>

<p>In essence, should I be worried?</p>

<p>As of 3rd and 4th yr, I will not take even a single course that is not genetics, micro, immunology, pathology, or cell biology. I will also be taking quite a lot of lab courses.</p>

<p>Where do I stand? My logic is at this point I'll prolly be applying to 10 schools with my stats and I'm sure a handful will take me. Quite a few of my older comrades have made it into some top schools including Yale, Harvard, UCSD.</p>

<p>I'd like to know what you guys think.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>Your post was very long. But are you going for a masters or phD? All those schools are hard to get in for BME as BME is a very hot and competitive field right now and to be honest, I don't see you getting in anywhere except maybe one or two for a masters. My reasoning being I have friends this year with profiles better than yours that were rejected everywhere.</p>

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<p>your stats are good, but as an international student, you may have a difficult time getting into these schools.</p>

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<p>Blah2009, I believe the OP means biomedical sciences, not biomedical engineering. :)</p>

<p>I agree with Cornelli2008 -- the problem is not going to be your GPA (which is fine), the problem is going to be that it's very tough to be admitted to top US biology PhD programs as an international student, since most of the funding these departments use for graduate students comes from the National Institutes of Health and therefore is restricted to US citizens.</p>

<p>Continue with your research and you'll be in a good position to apply your senior year (though your research resume is pretty standard for applicants to these programs), but it's impossible to predict where you will actually get in because international competition is quite fierce.</p>

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<p>In that case, please disregard my comments..=).</p>

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<p>Hm rlly?</p>

<p>I've talked to quite a few of the professors in my dept as well as some of the others (biochem, genetics and microbio,immunology, cell and systems biology) and they told me I shouldn't rlly worry too much about it. Most of the schools take abt 10-20% of their applicant pool as international students and there aren't a ****load of students applying from Canada. They also told me UofT has a pretty good rep in the states and I know my dept has had success placin students in top grad schools.</p>

<p>I've talked to a few students from UofT (one in Harvard another in Yale) and they also said the same thing. One got rejected from virtually every topnotch school cept Yale. The other got in to virtually all of them. However, this is merely anecdotal evidence.</p>

<p>I've also taken the time to email some of these schools and they said the same thing more or less.</p>

<p>I understand the funding situation in the states isn't exactly as glamorous as it used to be so it may be a bit more difficult by the time I apply.</p>

<p>Thanks for the input. You'll be seeing me here alot more often as time goes by.</p>

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<p>My program at Harvard is only about 15% international, and I recall my international friends being particularly concerned about the low percentages of internationals accepted at UCSF and Stanford. Remember, even if a program is composed of 20% international students, the applicant pool is probably composed of considerably more than 20% international applicants, so it's easier to get in as a domestic student and more difficult to get in as an international student.</p>

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<p>you should apply to Rockefeller.....> 50 % of the students are international.....I had an internship there last summer and some of the graduate students used to joke that Americans were a minority....</p>

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<p>You make a valid point mollie.</p>

<p>Ya I'm aware of the fairly low international acceptance rate in Cali schools. I prolly won't even bother applyin to em although I'd def love to go (the weather is a definite draw).</p>

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<p>from what i have heard waterloo is the top school in canada. any blows away the competition in science/engineering</p>

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<p>Absolutely not. Waterloo is very much still growing but is prolly at the moment the most innovative school for all things engineering and technical.</p>

<p>As for biomed, Waterloo isn't even on the radar.</p>

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<p>MasterMoe,</p>

<p>I think you're in a very good position and as long as you keep at what you've been doing and stick to your plans, you don't have too much to worry about (except which city you're going to end up living in for the next 5 years). I'm sure you'll get into at least 1 of the above list of schools.</p>

<p>I am an international Canadian student myself from the westcoast. Although my GPA is slightly higher than yours, your program at UofT sounds like a much more intensive one and that will certainly be considered in your application. Judging from the international applicant pool that I've seen this year and the schools that I got into/rejected from, I would say that you're at a pretty good position, as long as you make sure to do good on the GREs and write a good personal statement that fully displays all your strengths. You're on the right track in applying to as many schools as you can; it is indeed very true that the international admissions process is rather random and unpredictable amongst the top applicants. So apply to as many top schools as you can. After going through the process, I would say that international admissions for the top applicants is very much like the lottery. The more tickets you buy, the better your chances at winning.</p>

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<p>MasterMoe, if you are really interested in pursuing a research career and do not mind spending 5+ years for PhD, followed by 3+ years for postdoc, then getting into a "top US university" shouldn't be your uttermost concern. Sure, having a brand name school on your resume might help and look impressive, but ultimately, it is the direction and quality of your research, the number of publications, and your relationship with PI that make a greater difference. I would say, do not limit your choices to the schools you listed. There are plenty other amazing research universities in the states with programs and research labs that might be better fit for you.</p>

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<p>The best opportunities are always found at the best schools. I'm not going to waste my time at a second rate school. The best schools also have the best faculty.</p>

<p>Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, if it aint a highly acclaimed biomed grad program, it's a waste of my time. The best schools also attract the best students.</p>

<p>Surely prestige aint all I'm looking for. Afterall, even within the list of schools I've listed I may end up choosin a school that may be less prestigious because I feel the dept is a better fit.</p>

<p>Goin to a school that isn't at the very least the equivalent of my current school in terms of biomedical research is a handicap.</p>

<p>Surely there are schools I haven't mentioned that may be as good as the schools I've mentioned. Those are part of the etc. lol.</p>

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<p>yeah I agree. Always shoot for the top man. I like the way that you think.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The best schools also have the best faculty.

[/quote]

This is often, but not always, true.</p>

<p>It's worth noting, however, that the school you go to has very little weight in your future career prospects so long as you're planning to stay in academia. Your advisor's reputation is much more important than your school's reputation -- many applicants don't think this through, but after your first year you won't have much to do with your program, and your life will be your lab.</p>

<p>Given the choice between working with a superstar in your topic of interest at Nowhereseville U and working with a mediocre faculty member at Harvard/Stanford/MIT, there's very little question in my mind that it's better for your career to work with the superstar. This is true not only because of the top-notch reference letters you'll get, but also because superstar labs are well-funded labs, and it's easier to do top-notch science in a reasonable amount of time in a well-funded lab.</p>

<p>Your advisor matters. Your school only matters insofar as it allows you access to people whom you would like to be your advisor.</p>

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<p>So, I dunno if you'd be interested such a "lowly" school as Mount Sinai, but fully 50% of their PhD candidates are international (and funded). And according to one recent ranking of biomedical PhD programs that are NOT part of a university, it's #3 after Scripps and Cold Spring Harbor. You might have a better shot there as an international student.</p>

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<p>Well at better schools I'll have more reputable proffs to choose from. I'm already well aware of everything u stated Mollie. Frankly, that gives me even more reason to discriminate and choose the best schools.</p>

<p>aldo003b, I might consider Scripps.</p>

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<p>I have a question, if my degree is from UT but I am an US citizen apply to the US schools would I be considered as international ? I suppose I would still be considered out of state for tuition purposes.</p>

<p>I also have a question for masterjoe: what is U of Guelph like for your field ? I know someone who is interested in going there. UT is too big for him.</p>

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<p>Munchkin: No, the problem usually lies with funding (such as NIH) that can only be used for US citizens. If you are a US citizen, you are considered a US citizen when you apply.:)</p>