<p>I know we focus a lot here on admissions to biological sciences programs (and for good reason! :)), but there can be a limited amount of information available about what happens after you accept an offer and decide to haul all of your stuff to City X to start your graduate career.</p>
<p>As the forum's resident nth year biomedical sciences PhD student, I wanted to provide a space for people to ask questions about picking rotations and an eventual thesis lab, about coursework, about qualifying exams, and about surviving your PhD without totally losing your sanity.</p>
<p>I'm defending in October and proceeding to a postdoc position afterward, so I'd love to share any aspects of my own experience that might help you guys as you start your own PhDs.</p>
<p>hi! I think this is a great topic. I am going to start a Neuroscience program in August and I am switching fields somewhat, so I have never been in a program with rotations, etc. Any advice on how early to email professors about rotating in their lab? how to pick your first rotation? Is it ok to ask about future funding opportunities if it is a lab you really like? Any other advice would also be greatly appreciated!! Thank you!</p>
<p>Great thread! Thank you for this. :)</p>
<p>I know how important picking the right advisor in grad school is going to be but what if you had to sacrifice your research interests to pick that perfect advisor? Is it wise to join a lab with an advisor you think is a good match despite not being too interested in what their lab studies? Hoping I don’t run into this situation but it can’t hurt to be prepared in the event I do. :)</p>
<p>And could you tell us a little about your experience with quals? I’ve heard that they’re as intense as intense can get and conversely that it’s just a formality and that hardly anyone ever fails.</p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
<p>
It’s not too early now to start emailing about fall rotations, but you shouldn’t feel pressured to decide on a first rotation now. In most programs, you’ll be okay waiting until school starts in the fall to start contacting potential PIs. Often there will be some events during your orientation or first semester to introduce you to all the PIs in your program – there might be a poster session, or a special course where different professors come to discuss their research. </p>
<p>So if there’s someone you know you’d really like to rotate with, go ahead and email him/her now. But don’t worry if you’re not sure yet.</p>
<p>
I’ve seen people do all kinds of things in terms of rotation strategy. Personally, my first rotation was totally out of left field compared with what I did as an undergrad – I heard a professor present during orientation, thought his work sounded cool, and set up a rotation with him. It was in a different animal model and a different approach than I’d ever used before. I ended up totally hating it. 
But I think it was a valuable experience, for one because I learned that I really did like the animal model and the types of questions I was asking as an undergrad. So I think there’s value in having a first rotation that’s totally out there.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a student who recently rotated in my lab did his first two rotations in (fairly similar) labs that he was very serious about joining. Now he’s doing his third rotation in a lab that uses very different techniques, with the idea that he can bring those techniques back to whichever of the other two labs he decides to join. </p>
<p>I think there are many valid approaches, but keep in mind the structure of your school year – in many programs, the third rotation happens during the summer after first year, so you might consider “saving” the rotation you think might be your favorite for the summertime, when you’ll have more time to spend in lab.</p>
<p>
Yes, absolutely. I wish funding didn’t have to matter, but the reality is that it does. You can investigate the lab’s funding situation independently by looking the PI up in [url=<a href=“RePORT ⟩ RePORTER”>RePORT ⟩ RePORTER]RePORTER[/url</a>] (and I think there’s a similar resource for NSF), but you should be sure to ask the PI how he/she would expect to fund you if you joined the lab. Is there money for you, no matter what? Does he/she expect you to write a successful fellowship application, or to take on a heavy teaching load?</p>
<p>
I think this depends in part on how much the advisor will let you work outside the core expertise of the lab, and also on whether working outside the core expertise of the lab will leave you with enough intellectual support from your advisor and labmates. I’ve seen this situation go poorly (student tries to initiate project of interest, but labmates/PI aren’t able to help because it’s too far outside what the lab does), but I’ve also seen it go well (PI gives student a lot of intellectual freedom, and student comes up with some gorgeous piece of work). It will probably only work if you’re willing to be pretty independent and self-directed.</p>
<p>It also depends a little on how flexible your own research interests are – whether you have very catholic tastes, or whether you don’t give a crap about anything outside your own narrow perspective. (I find myself in the latter camp, just in case it sounds like I’m being too harsh.)</p>
<p>
It’s both, really (and defending your thesis is the same way). Hardly anyone ever fails, but you still need to work really hard to prepare. </p>
<p>In my program, the qualifying exam takes the form of a written thesis proposal followed by an oral proposal defense. I think this is a really great format, for many reasons: you come out with a written proposal that can be slightly tweaked and submitted as a fellowship application; you have the opportunity to discuss your proposed research with a committee of professors who aren’t your PI, and to get their suggestions as you begin your work; you develop your skills in writing and presentation; and you are forced to actually read and think about a large chunk of the literature that’s germane to your project.</p>
<p>Personally, I spent about a month writing my prelim proposal, and another week or so putting together my presentation. I worked really hard on it*, and I was pretty nervous before my presentation, but everything went very well. I turned my proposal into a successful NRSA (F31) fellowship, and my quals proposal is (fairly) similar to what I actually ended up doing as my thesis research.</p>
<p>*I thought it was really hard at the time. As a sixth-year, I scoff at my second-year self thinking that 10-hour days were “really hard”.</p>
<p>Molliebatmit, thank you so much for all the responses! Definitely very helpful. I was wondering in terms of course load/research how busy are you during the week? I understand that grad school is super busy in general but I was just curious how you manage your time and if there is any free time at all really haha.</p>
<p>Well, I’ve gotten much busier over the course of my PhD, as my research has picked up.</p>
<p>My first year, I was taking three classes each semester and working in my rotation labs about 20 hours a week, so I was comparatively busy to what I had been my senior year in college. My second and third years, I was taking classes less frequently (I chose to fill some of my class requirements with courses that meet once a week for half a semester, or for only two full days), and I was working in the lab about 50 hours a week. My projects really picked up toward the end of fourth year, and I started working around 60-65 hours a week, and for the past year, I’ve been consistently working more like 80. </p>
<p>This is all personal choice, though – there are many students in my program, and in my lab, who are working much less than 80 hours a week. And I still find time to do the things I need to do to stay sane, like spending time with my husband, knitting, and going out with friends. I work a pretty consistent schedule, getting to lab around 8 AM and leaving by 8:30 or 9 PM, then working shorter days on the weekends. For me, that’s the best way to manage.</p>
<p>I would advise you not to worry too much about the exact number of hours you’re working, as long as you’re happy and your advisor is happy. I rarely worked on the weekends during my first years of grad school, following the advice of a friend who told me that I might as well take weekends off while I could, because later in grad school I probably wouldn’t be able to. I’m glad I followed his advice.</p>
<p>^80hr work week? wow. and 10k posts on cc? wow</p>
<p>Well, 10,000 posts in seven years. 
And certainly fewer in the last year, as I’ve been ODing on lab work.</p>
<p>@Molliebatmit
This is a great thread. In searching for a PhD program, is it imprudent to say that you don’t want to go into academia? What about a person who wants to go into industry? I’ve read other threads that indicate that in interviews that you must express LOVE for research. I see a PhD is a minimum cost of entry to be able to someday run a biosciences company and learning the research process is a necessary skill. I know one needs to DO research to learn the process but it’s more a means to an end. The whole research/technology transfer model is in such transition and funding is such a crap shoot. Maybe being the one with the money looking for great ideas is better than being the one always looking/begging for funding. Thoughts? Currently at a well-known cancer center in NYC doing research, formerly at a well-known research institute in Israel and Ivy league honors grad. Fully appreciate the 12 hour days…been there, done that. Just want to get ducks in a row and have reasonable expectations.</p>
<p>It’s unfortunate, but saying in interviews that you’re not interested in an academic path is risky. It’s not that it’s automatically problematic, but there will be a handful of interviewers who see it as a negative. In the same way, it is safer in interviews to maintain the fiction that you are interested in pursuing your PhD in a particular subfield, although it’s completely normal not to be sure (which is why many biological sciences programs are umbrella programs with the freedom to change your mind during your first few years). </p>
<p>I agree that it’s totally absurd – I mean, even from top programs, more than half of students will end up in industry in one way, shape, or form, but programs still prefer to admit students who profess to want to be just like the faculty who are admitting them. But it’s up to you to decide what you want to say in interviews.</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply. I’ve worked for some great mentors and I can honestly say that I aspire to do for someone else what they have done for me. I can be totally sincere. These folks were not just visionary in their research but they were encouraging even for a rookie; made me feel like I could make an intellectual contribution. I can honestly say that harnessing/coordinating talent is a career goal. I think that when you work really long hours, it’s not painful if you are around good people. I like going to work every day even if it’s a long day.</p>
<p>Which programs are more collegial than others or is it up to the individual PI? I’m an independent person but like to bounce ideas off others, especially people from different backgrounds. I also like “normal” people cuz, I’ve worked with weirdos who don’t talk or share. Playing nice is important to me. Am I being naive to want that in a PhD program? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a competitive person but prefer cooperation. How much influence do other students have in the lab selection process or is it all up to the lab head?</p>
<p>
In my opinion, it’s an individual lab thing. I think I am somewhat in the minority here, because of my own personal experience – every year, I hear people from other programs as well as recruits swear up and down that my program is a horrible, cutthroat, competitive place where students kick puppies and little old grannies all day long. I know that’s not true for my program, so I assume it’s not true anywhere.</p>
<p>It’s absolutely true that there are toxic environments everywhere, and there are great, collegial, vibrant labs everywhere, too. And that’s the beauty of joining a program that has rotations – you can be in a lab day in and day out for weeks, and you’ll be able to see for yourself what the environment is like.</p>
<p>
It varies by lab. In my PhD lab, and in the lab where I’ll be doing my postdoc, lab members have quite a bit of influence in the selection of new students and postdocs. In other labs, the lab head might accept a student or postdoc sight unseen. My suspicion, of course, is that the interpersonal experience is probably better on average in the former type of lab than in the latter. </p>
<p>I don’t, by the way, think it’s asking too much to want to be in a good environment as a grad student. I’ve been in a great lab as a PhD student, and my labmates are an outstanding source of ideas and intellectual support in addition to being my social support network. I work every day with a fellow grad student who is my collaborator as well as my best friend. My lab isn’t perfect, but my co-workers make my life better every day.</p>