Black High SAT Scorers

Parents Forum
1

<p>This info from The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education will give black high scorers some idea of why they are in such demand. If such students also are African American without Caribbean or African-born parents, they are in even higher demand since while the majority of African Americans are not offspring of immigrants, the majority of high scoring black students are.</p>

<p>The fact that 100,000 students of all races scored higher than 700 on either the m or v part of the SAT and 33,000+ scored higher than 750 on either the m v SAT this year shows why it's not possible for all such students to get into a place like HPYS or even the top 10 universities: There simply is not enough room.</p>

<p>The rest of the article also is interesting, including theories about why African Americans score lower than any other major racial/ethnic group on the SAT.</p>

<p>" In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test. They made up 10.4 percent of all SAT test takers. But only 1,132 African-American college-bound students scored 700 or above on the math SAT and only 1,205 scored at least 700 on the verbal SAT. </p>

<p>Nationally, more than 100,000 students of all races scored 700 or above on the math SAT and 78,025 students scored 700 or above on the verbal SAT. Thus, in this top-scoring category of all SAT test takers, blacks made up only 1.1 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the math test and only 1.5 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the verbal SAT. </p>

<p>If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation's most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test.</p>

<p>Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section." </p>

<p><a href="http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

2

<p>"...while the majority of African Americans are not offspring of immigrants, the majority of high scoring black students are."</p>

<p>Northstarmom, I know that is a common assumption, but I find no evidence for it in the JBHE article. Is the belief that "the majority" of high scoring blacks are offspring of immigrants more than anecdotal?</p>

<p>Interestingly, the only data I've ever seen on this comes from a survey in The Black Guide to Life at Harvard. For the Class of 2003, for example, 55.1% of African-American students indicated that their parents' place of origin was the United States, 23.2% said the Caribbean, 10.1% said Africa, 2.9% said the US and the Caribbean, and 2.9% said the US and Africa. 5.8% said Other. I know you are aware of the recent controversy over this.</p>

3

<p>"Northstarmom, I know that is a common assumption, but I find no evidence for it in the JBHE article. Is the belief that "the majority" of high scoring blacks are offspring of immigrants more than anecdotal?"</p>

<p>To my knowledge, no one has done a study on this. However, at least 25 years ago, Psychology Today published a brief article saying that most black Americans who had made major accomplishments in our country had come from Caribbean backgrounds.</p>

<p>When I went to Harvard, a disproportionate # of black students there were of Caribbean backgrounds or were bi-racial (anther category of high scoring black students).</p>

<p>When I taught at an HBCU and had access to the SAT scores of the top students in the university, a high number of them were bi-racial or had African or Caribbean-born parents.</p>

<p>In my children's gifted classes, there were few black students and I only met one whose parents were not white, Caribbean or African. Even though my kids have two black parents who were born in the US, my dad was Jamaican and my husband's mom is black, but was born in Canada. Both of my sons are in the high scoring SAT category: One had a 1410, the other a 1540. Of the few black kids in my school district (at least 35% black) who score at the National Merit Commended level, the only ones without immediate Caribbean/African immigrant heritage have been my sons. </p>

<p>When I worked at one of the country's top newspapers, which at the time had just started hiring blacks, at least half of the blacks there were of Caribbean heritage in that either they or their parents immigrated from the Caribbean. </p>

<p>Interestingly, black Harvard law prof Lani Guinier, one of the people who pointed out the disproportionately high number of black Harvard students of Caribbean or immigrant African heritage is herself bi-racial -- white mom, Caribbean born dad.</p>

<p>The high scoring African American students whom I have met who lack immediate Caribbean/African heritage tend to be military brats who attended schools on military bases. Research has indicated that those schools do the best jobs of educating black children in terms of scores and graduation rates.</p>

<p>One last category of black students who tend to do very well on tests are black students who were adopted into white families. Both of the black students whom I have known with such backgrounds ended up in gifted programs including one who was born a crack baby. Both had highly educated adopted families who moved heaven and earth to get them excellent educations, medical care, etc. My guess is that --combined with the fact that white mothers probably are treated with more respect, less prejudice, by educational and health systems than are black mothers -- is why the children's natural intelligence was able to flourish that well.</p>

<p>I've been noticing and tracking this for a couple of decades, and while my info is mainly anecdotal, I am confident that research would support it. </p>

<p>In addition, with the exception of two black students, every black student whom I have interviewed for Harvard as an alum interviewer in 2 very different cities over more than 15 years has been of immigrant Caribbean or African heritage. In my city, the three black students who have gotten into Harvard in about the last 8 years have had: 2 African immigrant parents, at least one African immigrant parent, black American parents, one of whom was biracial. </p>

<p>In one of the cities, African Americans (the majority of whom were not of immediate immigrant heritage) were in the majority. In the other, African Americans (also mainly of nonimmigrant heritage) were about 35% of the school population.</p>

<p>If you check out the black high scorers here on CC, you'll find that the overwhelming majority are of immediate African or Caribbean heritage.</p>

4

<p>From the Harvard Magazine article Roots and Race:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/090443.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/090443.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>In June, a New York Times article raised a long-simmering issue: the origins and ancestry of Harvard's black students. The piece described the celebratory mood at a reunion of African-American Harvard alumni, who applauded Harvard's progress over the past three decades in enrolling larger numbers of black students. But it also noted that this mood was broken when "some speakers brought up the thorny issue of exactly who those black students are." The question arises because, even though in recent years 7 to 9 percent of Harvard's incoming freshmen (8.9 percent for the class of 2008) have been African Americans, **some studies suggest that more than half of these students, and perhaps as many as two-thirds, are West Indian or African immigrants or their children. A substantial number also identify themselves as children of biracial couples.**</p>

5

<p>Very interesting information, and thanks for sharing. My son had a classmate in his summer math program who was a VERY SMART girl, of remote African ancestry, whose parents both grew up in the Caribbean. According to the girl's mom, with whom I had several pleasant conversations at the beginning and end of the program, at least in her Caribbean country the whole national culture was very strongly supportive of academic achievement, and it sounded as though her husband had grown up with better acceleration and early college options than I had in the same era in the United States. She also reported that her country, which has a certain number of famous Olympic athletes, is not nearly as impressed by those. She recalled one instance in which an Olympic medalist returned to his home country for an interview on local TV, and the audience reaction she heard among her friends was not "Wow! He won an Olympic medal," but rather a pitying "He's not very smart." </p>

<p>Bringing about cultural change in the United States so that all children have full opportunity to develop all their abilities looks like a long-term task [sigh]. I'm glad my son is growing in much more "integrated" communities than I did, and meeting children from varied ethnic backgrounds in summer programs, so that he can think about these issues, which have long concerned me, from a background well informed by real-world experience.</p>

6

<p>I thought the article was a little odd in the way it looked at SAT scores. More than half of the enrolled student bodies (and likely more than half of the accepted applicants) at virtually every school in the country (including HYPS) scored under 1500 on their SATs. At AW (and I think S), it is closer to 70%. 25% of H's student body (probably more elsewhere) scored 1400 or less. </p>

<p>Which would put a 1400-scoring African-American student in line for admission, without "bringing down the quality" of the student body, at virtually every school in the country. Using the CollegeBoard's association between scores and income, a 1400-scoring low-income AA student actually raises the quality of the student body, and a 1300 doesn't bring it down.</p>

7

<p>Northstarmom - Thanks for the information. I was accepted to Harvard and received a 2230 on my SATs. I am also black. No one in my family is of Caribbean or recent African descent (or bi-racial); my roots are in the South.</p>

8

<p>Swbutterfly:</p>

<p>Double congrats to you! I think the Caribbean experience illustrates the immigrant experience as an important factor in student achievement. It is, of course, not the only factor, and it does not mean that only recent immigrants can be successful. As you amply demonstrate.</p>

9

<p>SWbutterfly,
Congratulations! Do you plan on attending H or are you also applying elsewhere?</p>

10

<p>Marite and Northstarmom,
Thanks! I am very excited and have decided that I will definitely be attending. I thank you for your many informative and helpful posts over the past year!</p>

11

<p>Let's establish some needed perspective here. The discussion concerns ONE SCHOOL in the county. Of course Harvard is one of the leading schools in America. But I suspect that one factor in the significant number of non-U.S. members of the African dispora in the student body is that fact that Harvard is on the eastern seaboard, the northeast to be exact, where most immigrant Caribbeans and Africans reside in the U.S. I wonder how many in this group come from south of Washington, D.C. or below Mason's and Dixon's Line. And I would hazard a guess that many of the Caribbean/African immigrant parents are professionals, middle managers etc. A group which tends to pass along expectations of career success at a high rate.</p>

12

<p>I've been thinking the OP quite a bit over the last few weeks. I'm not sure any of us know what proportion of high achieving black students are from immigrant backgrounds. And Lake Washington may have a very legitimate point that our perceptions may be skewed by where we live. It seems a topic that deserves some research.</p>

<p>However, whether or not one believes that the "majority" of high scoring blacks are of immigrant background, it is undeniable that a disportionate number are. For me the most compelling explanation for this was given by the late John Ogbu, Professor of Social Anthropology at UC-B. Ogbu, incidentally, is of Nigerian origin from the Igbo ethnic group. Ogbu drew a distinction between "immigrant minorites" and "castelike minorities." According to Ogbu, in a racially stratified society, all racial minorities experience social and economic discrimination and are victims of racism, sterotyping, and a "glass ceiling." What distinguishes immigrant and castelike minorities is the attitude with which they face this treatment. Immigrant minorities come to this country voluntarily, usually seeking a better life. Accepting the dominant culture's theory of achievement -- if you work hard, you will get ahead -- immigrant minorities view their problems as more or less temporary, often linked to their status as new immigrants. They do not compare their life and treatment in the host country with that of the dominant group, but with their peers in their country of origin. In the context of this comparison, life here appears better. Further, as immigrants they retain the possibility of returning to their countries of origin.</p>

<p>Castelike minorities, on the other hand, were brought to this country involuntarily, either by force, as in the case of African Americans, or by conquest, as with Native Americans and Mexicans in the Southwest. Membership in a castelike group is "permanent, ascribed at birth." Over generations, castelike minorities have been confined to low-level jobs, and have had little or no political power. Typically, society has developed an ideology of racial inferiority to rationalize their position. There is no homeland to which to return. For castelike minorities, the point of comparison is the dominant group. If their life chances are less than or different from those of white Americans, for example, they are not satisfied. Moreover, whereas immigrant minorities tend to trust white Americans, castelike minorities do not.</p>

<p>Notwithstanding their experience of discrimination, immigrant minorities vigorously embrace the dominant American ideology that hard work and education pay off and will lead to a better life. Castelike minorities, on the other hand, having lived here for generations, observing the lives of their parents and other members of their communities, and have come to believe that education does not necessarily lead to better jobs -- for members of their group. While castelike minority parents articulate a strong belief in the importance of education for getting ahead and making it in this society, at the same time they communicate to their children an ambivalence about whether society will really reward them for their school achievement. This phenomenon leads to what Ogbu called a lack of "effort optimism" among the children of castelike minorities.</p>

<p>This phenonomen, Ogbu demonstrates, is not unique to the United States. For example, children of Chinese peasants and Burakumin (stigmatized classes of ethnic Japanese) achieve academically in this country but fail disproportionately in schools in Hong Kong and Japan.</p>

<p>This and related matters are very thoughtfully developed in a book "Young, Gifted and Black - Promoting High Achievement Among African-American Students" edited by Theresa Perry, Claude Steele and Asa Hilliard III(<a href="http://www.beacon.org/k-12/young-gifted-and-black-detail.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.beacon.org/k-12/young-gifted-and-black-detail.html&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;/p>

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<p>
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definitely

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<p>For this reason alone she(?) deserves admission to Harvard.</p>

14

<p>I couldn't resist adding this personal anecdote to the conversation; my nephew recently scored 2400 on his SAT's. We're black. No one in our family is of recent caribbean or African descent. He was accepted SCEA to Yale, but is considering other colleges.</p>

15

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<p>What does this theory have to say about Latin American immigrants, whose children's performance is closer to that of "castelike minority" Mexicans in the Southwest than it is to "immigrant minority" Asians, Africans, etc.? Most Hispanic families in the U.S. DID come here by choice, not by force or conquest.</p>

16

<p>I never understood why it is important to establish differences among the various sub-groups of Black students. The need to establish direct links to a Caribbean or African origin is especially puzzling. While it is undeniable that a number of wealthy and well educated blacks have emigrated from thero countries, I fail to see the relevance of breaking down the racial mix further. </p>

<p>It would be more interesting to see a correlation study of parental education and income levels as well as the quality and recognition of high schools among high scoring blacks. Based on generic reports, I believe that the above three elements will dwarf the impact of geographical differences to such extent that it will relegate it to an absolute non-event.</p>

17

<p>Reading this I wonder: are test scores the ONLY thing that selective colleges consider when looking at minority students? In other words, would an African American with test scores of 2100 but a 2.5 GPA be an "auto admit" to selective schools? Would an Hispanic with test scores of 1900 but only a 3.0 GPA be accepted at Harvard or Swarthmore? </p>

<p>I think we need to be careful not to assume that high test scores alone are the only admissions requirement for URMs. I, for one, would like to see some research that delves deeper than just test scores and minority status and tells us more about grades, academic preparation, EC's and other factors that play into the final admissions decision. That, it seems to me, would be most helpful in advising minority students about where to apply or what they can hope for in admissions.</p>

18

<p>"In other words, would an African American with test scores of 2100 but a 2.5 GPA be an "auto admit" to selective schools?"</p>

<p>Definitely not. I have seen no evidence that selective colleges would be willing to accept students with such low gpas, because despite high test scores, such students would have difficulty to graduate from college. H.S. gpa is a better predictor of college success than are SAT scores.</p>

19

<p>Thanks Northstarmom. I'm frequently contacted by URM students and parents who believe that simply by virture of their URM status alone they will be accepted to very selective schools, regardless of their grades and/or test scores. </p>

<p>I may be wrong, but ancedotally at least, it seems that most URMs that are accepted to highly selective schools are at least in, or very near, the general ballpark of that school's grade and test scores medians. This, of course, does not always apply to admission programs specifically for low income, first generation students, nor for students who have a highly desirable talent or special non-academic achievement. </p>

<p>My concern, obviously, is that students and parents may mis-understand just how much "advantage" they will receive in admissions from being an URM.</p>

20

<p>Who can declare themselves a URM? Are there any rules? If this is strictly a self declaration can anyone declare minority status? </p>

<p>If a person believes he/she is .001% of a certain ethnic background, can that person declare themselves a minority under that criteria? It seems like there are no rules.</p>