Blackface Sparks Controversy at Lehigh

Parents Forum
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<p>

A little off-topic, but this isn’t quite right–I actually saw this show when it opened. There were plenty of Asians in the show, include Lea Salonga, who had the lead (she is a Filipino, not Vietnamese, though). (Here’s the cast list: <a href=“Miss Saigon – Broadway Musical – Original | IBDB”>Miss Saigon – Broadway Musical – Original | IBDB) The controversy came from a particular role, the Engineer, who is supposed to be half Asian. The part was played (excellently) by Jonathan Pryce, who isn’t any part Asian.</p>

<p>I just read a bit more about this, and part of the controversy was that at the beginning (in London, I think), Pryce wore makeup to make him look more Asian. I don’t believe he had that on Broadway, though.</p>

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<p>Hunt - you are right, my apologies! Yes, the controversy was over Jonathan Pryce’s role especially since the producers had mentioned that no Asian or Asian American was qualified for the role. Well…that makes sense, since they weren’t considered for the role anyways lol! Thanks for the clarifications!!!</p>

<p>monydad - My problem with Charlie Chan isn’t really his accent. I just find it offensive that a white guy is pretending to be Asian, which as I mentioned, is part of a long history of white people appropriating minority culture and presenting it as authentic.</p>

<p>Ahhhh still off topic - sorry. On a semi-related note, Northwestern had a blackface incident last Halloween, which sparked huuuuge controversy. Basically, whether intended to be racist or not, costumes where non-blacks dress up as blacks are poor choices to begin with. Whether or not one is familiar with the history of blackface and minstrelsy is irrelevant - blackface is offensive not just to African Americans but to all other racial groups who have been subjected to similar racist histories.</p>

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<p>I hope that you never consider donning a leprechaun hat on March 17th, prestige. Which I generally agree with you, your view of who has and has not been caricatured in the country seems rather limited. Plenty of white European groups have suffered the same fate.</p>

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<p>Consolation - That is true, especially since most Europeans weren’t even considered “white” in American history. I am so sorry for my limited views - since I am Asian American and most people seem to believe that Asian Americans have never faced racism or discrimination, I am quick to always write to the contrary! >.<</p>

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<p>I think they should remake some Charlie Chan movies. After all, they’ve done Sherlock Holmes about 700,000 times. Only reason why not, that I can think of, is concern that the Asian community here is not all that thrilled with the character. But I think they should be. If it was done today it should be able to be made in a way that they would be quite happy with it. Seems to me.</p>

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<p>your views aren’t “limited”, prestige (though i think u were being facetious). i learned of yellowface while watching a play. very interesting, and you’re right, every bit as offensive as blackface…which many seem hell-bent on defending here. </p>

<p>on the polish note: i’ve yet to meet anybody who considers polish people ‘stupid’-- and admittedly, i’m not familiar with that stereotype. however, pulling a random, obscure ‘stereotype’ or caricature out of your a$$ doesn’t cut it. some of you folks are really reaching. now LEPRECHAUNS are an historically discriminated group? can we get serious?</p>

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<p>calimami, give me a break. The history of discrimination against the Irish in the US–which was at times violent–is well documented. The characterization of the Irish as a bunch of lazy, superstitious drunkards was well established. “Dumb Polack” jokes were a staple of ethnic humor for ages. I could go on, listing stereotypes involving immigrant groups that are far from obscure. </p>

<p>The fact that you are unaware of them is somewhat surprising in an adult, but doesn’t mean they didn’t–and don’t–exist. Your ignorance of history doesn’t mean that the history ceases to exist. Really, isn’t that the same thing as saying that appearing in blackface is somehow acceptable if one is ignorant of the history associated with it?</p>

<p>My point was simply that stereotyping and discrimination has not been limited to racial groups. It is all quite odious, and I hope that we are moving away from it.</p>

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<p>It seems that each new immigrant group that comes in takes their share/ turn at abuse and expoitation. I read where many hispanics these days are complaining of profiling, etc.</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee… I should have written the word sarcasm in big bold letters when I posted #77. I keep forgetting that people don’t know me or the fact that I am of Italian heritage. </p>

<p>The shows that are aired about Italian Americans are by far the most insulting and derogatory of almost any other shows aired today, regarding the sterotypical behavior of any group of people. It is unfortunate that the Italians do not start publicizing their hurt feelings regarding public opinion about being portrayed as uneducated idiots.</p>

<p>I disagree that the portrayal of Italians in a negative way is not harmful to the Italians. You obviously do not know the struggles of Italian immigrants to the U.S and how they were treated, yet we went on in spite of the prejudice that we experienced.</p>

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<p>Momma-three, I agree 100% with your last post.</p>

<p>But I have a point to make about Jersey Shore costumes and in general a point to make to all of the people who are trying to belittle the wrongness of what occurred here at Lehigh.</p>

<p>Jersey shore costumes are not analogous to the white males dressing up as black females for SEVERAL very important reasons.</p>

<p>One, there is the issue that these white males painted their faces black. We’ve already discussed blackface.
Two, these males are privileged 1. because they are white and 2. because they are males. To choose strong black females as the object of a ridiculous imitation is particularly troubling, and then to be in the historical position of power in terms of your race and gender when it comes to the subject of the joke, that is even more troubling.</p>

<p>Dressing up as Jersey shore characters is generally a lot more nuanced. 1. the show is seen as a joke, so it’s more analogous to people dressing up as characters from well-known blacksploitation films or something like that, rather than analogous to someone dressing up as real-life athletes 2. generally the people that dress up as these characters are of the same race, body type, and gender of the “joke”. That means there’s less pulling on the historically privileged/historically oppressed strings. Actually, Snooki isn’t even Italian. She’s adopted.</p>

<p>Is a non-Italian/person not from Jersey dressing up as Snooki a little insensitive/tasteless? Yes, I would say so, though it’s a fair point that it’s awfully hard to tell if someone is not Italian or not from New Jersey. It’s a lot easier to tell if someone is black, and that speaks to the fact that constructs around black identity (often negative) are still much more powerful than constructs around Italian identity. </p>

<p>In conclusion, a Snooki or The Situation costume is not AS tasteless as two white dudes painting their faces black, stuffing their shirts, and imitating black female athletes. </p>

<p>I agree that Italians put up with a lot of ****, especially in terms of the media portrayal of them, but I don’t agree that the comparisons being made by some posters are logical at all. There’s a clear “more wrong” here.</p>

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<p>At the end of the day, it’s not a race to see which culture/group has been downtrodden or stereotyped the most. I think it’s appropriate to listen to anyone who says, “Hey, I don’t like it when my ethnic group is portrayed like that” or “it offends me when people do that because [reason]”, to try to understand where they’re coming from and to realize that even an “innocent” action can genuinely hurt someone.</p>

<p>I remember reading a news article years ago where a Native American woman talked about how she used to attend powwows in a (mostly white) city every year and do traditional dancing in colorful garb . . . until one year she stopped for a break and was drinking bottled water and a little kid loudly said to his mom, “Look, Mommy, they drink water just like real people!” The woman said the remark made her feel like other Americans saw Native people “like a cartoon” . . . just a set of stereotypes. It didn’t matter that the kid was young and ignorant and didn’t mean any harm. It wasn’t about this one kid. It was about the society that produces a kid who says something like that. She stopped dancing after that.</p>

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<p>true–it isn’t a race. </p>

<p>that pow-wow story reminds me of the dave chappelle interview on ‘inside the actors studio’, where he was talking about why he decided to end his show. he said that one day he noticed that folks were laughing especially hard at one of the skits…and he knew that they were laughing at something that really hadn’t been said. he was deeply disturbed by the subtext of the laughter, and decided that he no longer wanted to be a part of a pop culture that would “produce” that type of response from people.</p>

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<p>“I think it’s appropriate to listen to anyone who says, “Hey, I don’t like it when my ethnic group is portrayed like that” or “it offends me when people do that because [reason]”, to try to understand where they’re coming from and to realize that even an “innocent” action can genuinely hurt someone.”</p>

<p>^^ Agreed, but sadly, the response is something along the linse of, “you’re too sensitive,” rather than listening and/or apologizing.</p>

<hr>

<p>Re: post #90</p>

<p>White male students dressing up as black women also feeds the old stereotype of black women as unattractive and man-ish. Also, with many of these “costumes,” the point is to poke fun at a “flaw” - - dressing as Oprah, even if NOT in black face, always involves making fun of her weight.</p>

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<p>I was fascinated when I went to Germany to hear every Polish joke I’d ever heard recast as an Austrian joke.</p>

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<p>I am an Asian American. Whatever negative stereotype there is for my kind does NOT hold a candle to the several hundred years worth of an enslavement of an entire race and the really dangerous stereotypes that still haunt the African American community with real, actual, and devastating outcomes we see to this day and age. </p>

<p>No way, the suffering of “my people” should ever be used to produce a statement “well, don’t be so overly sensitive. There is a negative stereotype for all ethnic groups. Everybody has that problem”. This kind of comparison and whitewashing cheapens the real tragedy of the history of slavery and diminishes the degree of negative aftermath we as a society still have not completed gotten rid of. I think it’s naive at best, more likely insensitive and ignorant, and at worst evil. Look folks, no Italian Americans were mob lynched, hung for looking at WASP woman with “lustful eyes” or had their church torch bombed. Equating the hurtful stereotypes of Italian Americans or Pollacks to that of the African Americans is intellectually dishonest and a terrible travesty.</p>

<p>Most Jews bristle at what appears to be a rather innocent statement of comparing whatever unfortunate incidents of the day to Holocaust. I perfectly understand that unease and completely agree that equating some minor disasters and small scale atrocities to Holocaust is a mockery of the worst evil the human race has ever demonstrated it is capable of. </p>

<p>Yes, we all need to work to get rid of negative stereotypes. Yes, all ethnic groups suffer from whatever prejudice the others may have. However, don’t ever equate a misdemeanor charge to first degree murder indictment.</p>

<p>Think of it this way. Suppose you have a friend dying of a cancer. Would you go on and on, in her presence, talking about your toothache and how much you are suffering ???</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee, I, for one, would never equate Polish jokes to slavery. lynchings, and Jim Crow. If you think I am suggesting that the two things are equal, you are mistaken.</p>

<p>BTW, There were incidents of Irish Catholic religious institutions being burned by mobs in this country in the 19th century. I’d say that is fairly serious, although obviously nowhere near comparable to the treatment of African-Americans.</p>

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<p>consolation,</p>

<p>I did NOT think you were doing that.</p>

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<p>I don’t see a problem with what they did… though I don’t know the details… I’m from the area and didn’t even know about it. It sounds like they were just dressing up. I come from a group of friends that is very diversified. We sometimes vacation together and when we all pile in a van on vacation my indian friend calls it the “minority mobile” because us caucasians are the minority in the van when we go out together. I had a caucasian friend a few years ago named Pete who colored his face brown and sprayed his hair green and wore a brown shirt and was a “Chia-pete”. Everyone thought it was hilarious. I have an african american friend who dressed up as “Blackula” (a play off of dracula) the other year. We all got a good laugh. He had a cape and fangs. I have a white friend who came dressed like an indian complete with feathers in his hair. It’s halloween. You never know what you are going to see. Not everyone has some kind of ulterior motive behind their actions. heck, one year I was a giant rubik’s cube. I barely fit through the front door!</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee - I totally, totally agree with what you said. Totally.</p>

<p>However.</p>

<p>“Look folks, no Italian Americans were mob lynched, hung for looking at WASP woman with “lustful eyes” or had their church torch bombed.”</p>

<p>This is actually totally untrue. I know for a fact Italian Americans have been mob lynched. That’s on the anti-Italian Americanism Wikipedia page (hah!). I think it’s hard to believe that no churches were ever set on fire deliberately during earlier periods in history, knowing what some of my friends’ parents went through in the 60s/70s (kids spit at their grandmothers, screamed at them to learn English, beat up the kids). I’m not sure about the looking at WASP woman one, though :p. I can’t think of a concrete historical example for that one.</p>

<p>That doesn’t negate the fact that I don’t think Italian Americans suffered/suffer anywhere near the violence and prejudice that black people have in this country. But the speed with which we “whitewash” other ethnic groups’ struggles is also unnerving.</p>

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<p>The KKK hated Catholics and immigrants (and back during the Reconstruction era and especially the early 1900s they were practically one and the same in public imagination) almost as much as they hated blacks. Combine that with the virulent nativism that afflicted America during that time period makes it certain that anti-Irish, anti-Semitic anti-Polish, and anti-Italian (as well as anti-Chinese) violence took place.</p>