<p>What opportunities would I have as a biomedical engineering major at Harvard? I just posted on the Princeton forum and 2 ppl replied saying that there wasn't much....</p>
<p>Bioengineering at Penn beats all the other ivies</p>
<p>You serious?</p>
<p>Found this thread: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=159834%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=159834</a></p>
<p>I know a few people doing BME at Harvard–I get the impression that it's a very good program, but not incredibly well-known.</p>
<p>I suggest contacting a professor/administrator in the department ( <a href="http://www.seas.harvard.edu/research/bioengineering.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.seas.harvard.edu/research/bioengineering.html</a> ) and ask a few questions, or request the contact info for an undergrad in the program.</p>
<p>harvard engineering sucks...steer clear.</p>
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harvard engineering sucks...steer clear.
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<p>Four years ago I met some kind men who took the time to talk to my son--then in sixth grade--about Harvard's engineering program. My son was tagging along with me at the Minnesota National College Fair while I was doing research for a Web site, and by surprise we found out that there was a Harvard booth at that fair. The men in the booth, who I guess were Harvard alumni or possibly DEAS or admission staff members, told us about the first regional college information session we ever attended, Harvard's meeting in Minneapolis later that year. </p>
<p>I have no idea how to rate engineering programs. I also have no idea if my son, in particular, is most strongly interested in engineering or in something else. But I did find it interesting that Harvard is doing as much as it is to build up its engineering program and to mention it to students who inquire however casually about Harvard. Harvard, of course, has a crosstown rival in engineering that attracts much notice. </p>
<p>So please tell me more: do you think Harvard has a strong engineering program up to the level of the other engineering colleges with a national draw? Or do you think it is out of the question for you? Why?</p>
<p>I just looked up the requirements for Bio engineering at Harvard. They do not seem particularly onerous or rigorous, but I don't know how they would compare with programs at other schools.</p>
<p>BME at Duke>BME at Penn!
How was that for a falcon kick? :p</p>
<p>But while Harvard is not best known for its engineering program.. Harvard has a pretty good engineering program! Harvard is only ranked #30 in this area by US News.. but that doesn't mean it has a poor engineering program.</p>
<p>I guess a number 30 engineering program would, by definition, outrank the engineering programs at at least twenty state universities. That doesn't sound awfully bad to me, if the ranking is to be believed.</p>
<p>I would also point out that Harvard has a cross-reg relationship with MIT. Only a few other schools (i.e. Wellesley) can also claim to have a cross-reg relationship with MIT. So even if Harvard engineering sucks (which it clearly does not, as being ranked #30 is indeed quite good), you can just take plenty of engineering classes at the #1 ranked engineering school. Hence, a Harvard engineering student probably has academic resources that are superior to that available to students at higher-ranked engineering schools.</p>
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harvard engineering sucks...steer clear.
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<p>So then what does that say about all of the engineering schools that are ranked below Harvard (i.e. below #30)? I guess that means that they REALLY REALLY suck, right? In other words, because there are hundreds and hundreds of engineering programs out there, most of which are obviously going to be ranked under #30, that means that the vast majority of engineering programs out there really suck, right?</p>
<p>I also searched through your old posts, raccna, and I see that you intend to be an engineering student, and you are considering Upenn, as can be seen in post #52 of the following thread:</p>
<p>Yet Upenn is ranked #30 in engineering, tied with Harvard. Hmmm, what's wrong with this picture? According to your logic, it seems to me that Upenn also "really sucks" in engineering, and if that's true, why would you consider going there?</p>
<p>Well would BME @ Harvard be at least close to as good as BME @ Stanford?</p>
<p>Duke also has a top BME program, and it's pretty small I think. You should look into it!</p>
<p>Actually Harvard's engineering program is top notch. Yale also has an extremely strong undergraduate program in BME. See <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=4498531&postcount=4%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=4498531&postcount=4</a> for details, and talk to a few professors and students at these schools -- don't take anyone on this forum's word for granted.</p>
<p>I think people get excited when they see an area where Harvard is not the top 10 or 20, so they dismiss the program. A rank of 30 is pretty good. Look at the schools ranked right before it and tied with it. Some well-known engineering schools.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Columbia University (NY) 3.6
Duke University (NC) 3.6
North Carolina State U.–Raleigh * 3.6
Univ. of Maryland–College Park * 3.6
Univ. of Southern California 3.6</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard University (MA) 3.5
Ohio State University–Columbus * 3.5
University of Florida * 3.5
University of Pennsylvania 3.5</p></li>
</ol>
<p>To the OP: If you are considering BME and want to go to an Ivy, Penn has a great program. I would look into it.</p>
<p>Edit: Sakky- According to the link below, raccna is already in college at Penn State. Considering a transfer to UPenn (by your link), but the point still stands. </p>
<p>upenn is no. 19 in chem Engineering- ranked the same as PSU in chem E.- and there's other things i like about the school- location, diversity, flexibility when it comes to electives and a tonne of companies recruit their chem E students. Not everyone looks at rankings, ticks the top ten schools and applies you know..</p>
<p>IMO harvard does not deserve that rank at all. Go look at the harvard curriculum. You're not going to get the specialized training that engineering majors at other schools are getting. It's ' flexibly structured' according to harvard which IMO is a fancy way of saying take whatever the hell you want, regardless of what engr. you're majoring in, plus some 'general engineering courses and we'll give you an engineering degree. IMO it should never be mentioned in the same sentence as penn in any conversation regarding ENGINEERING...are you serious? I'm curious to know what game the school is playing to get so high in the rankings coz i just dont see it as the 30th best. I hear wustl, for instance, is rejecting overqualified students just to get higher in the rankings...and i believe they're ranked no. 10 in the nation in the overall rankings.</p>
<p>Sakky you're just ridiculous lol. With your 'harvard/yale are great in engineering because you can become a rich ibanker' posts. What has ones increased chance of getting into ibanking if they go to harvard/yale got to do with the strength of the engineering programs at these schools relative to other schools? Plus you're truly misleading people on this board by making it seem like a tonne of people from harvard and yale will become ibankers. Very few will. What happens to the engineering kids at these schools if they dont get into banking/consulting? Engineering firms dont even recruit from these schools. The kids will have to go online or something and post their resumes </p>
<p>Even you(who graduated MIT), despite your constant preaching about how several MIT, ivy grads get into ibanking said you've chosen one of the least lucrative careers. if you truly, genuinely love what ibankers do, give it a try...but dont get into it because sakky thinks its much more interesting than engineering jobs(many MANY engineering majors disagree with you... by the way). I don't think many people have what it takes to be willing to work 80 hour weeks in their 20's..regardless of whatever bonus you get(if you happen to be one the few who is good at it).</p>
<p>As far as i'm concerned harvard doesn't have a REAL engineering program yet. Go to their site and check out the engineering curriculum for EE, BME,etc..it's a total joke. It's some 'general engineering sciences/physics' type stuff..really weird.The engineering companies know that their time will be better spent recruiting from other schools..take a look at employers that recruit their kids:</p>
<p>I wonder what their engineering coop program is like...</p>
<p>and please don't give me that bulls**t about how the engineering firms dont show up 'because none of the kids want to be engineers' lol.</p>
<p>BTW their biomedical engineering program is not even in the top 50 for the person who was asking about BME stanford Vs. BME at harvard. Just thought i point that out. Go to Stanford...or MIT(which is right down the street from what i hear).</p>
<p>i chanced upon this post off of a google search i was doing, and thought that i should weigh in on the subject to clear up a few misconceptions (as maybe the only person posting here who is actually a harvard student).</p>
<p>first, i would like to say that i am surprised that some people are so vocally critical of harvard's engineering programs. calling the program a "joke" is simply ignorant. the fact is, harvard's only program in engineering (the engineering sciences program) is abet accredited (read: people who are qualified to rate engineering programs do not think its a joke). it is also ranked in the top five for programs in engineering science/engineering physics (by usnews, which seems to be the golden standard that everyone here follows), just behind stanford and ahead of berkeley and caltech. also, before claiming that harvard's biomedical engineering program is "not even in the top 50," you should check and make sure that harvard actually has such a program (in fact, it does not biomedical sciences and engineering is a specialization in the engineering sciences program).</p>
<p>based on my limited experience (johns hopkins bme bs/ms program, harvard es/bme phd program), what makes a "real" biomedical engineering program is still a matter of debate. in fact, the curriculum at jhu changed three times while i was at the school. i should emphasize that the core classes taught at jhu in bme are mostly not strictly engineering classes. they cover mol/cell bio, biochem, thermo, physiology, systems bio, and neuroscience. of course there are other bits in the curriculum... engineering design, a concentration in a "traditional" engineering field, applied science labs, etc. </p>
<p>the point that i am trying to make is that bme is a completely non-traditional engineering field. every school does it differently, and tech schools (exception: ga tech) are not quite as good at it as non-tech schools (jhu, upenn, duke, uw, ucsd, rice, and bu are all in the top-ten in bme grad programs, whereas berkeley and mit barely make it). i am not bashing berkeley, mit, or other top engineering schools as having "jokes" of bme programs, of course... i am saying that even the best engineering schools are having some trouble in pinpointing what makes a good bme program. </p>
<p>how does this relate to harvard's engineering program, specifically their specialization (under the engineering sciences program) in biomedical sciences and engineering? they use a completely non-traditional approach for their engineering sciences program, teaching their students broadly in the sciences with an engineering approach (though, technically, it's only non-traditional by american standards... many british schools teach engineering in this way). in a field like bme, where such an approach tends to work best (like at jhu, for example), i would say that harvard is going in the right direction.</p>
<p>so why is harvards undergraduate engineering overall ranked 30th while their engineering sciences program (again, their only engineering program, depending on how you count computer science and applied math) is ranked in the top five? the simple fact is that harvard has a small engineering department that does not quite reach the scale found at other major schools. being small means that they must specialize their expertise, and specializing means that they cannot offer a broad range of majors in engineering. so they teach engineering sciences and they teach it quite well, easily up to their own lofty standards. so please do not throw around epimethean statements like harvard engineering sucks. in saying such things, you are insulting scores of highly qualified engineering faculty who planned out their program (harvard has one of the highest fractions of nae faculty in the country) and judged their program (the abet committee). </p>
<p>to all the students who are interested in engineering at harvard, i say go for it. know that you are going to study in an excellent program at an excellent school. know that it is extremely difficult to gain admission to harvard for engineering at the undergraduate or graduate levels (around 10% admissions for each, lower than berkeley, mit, etc.), so there are plenty of other students who want to go there (and i know phd students at jhu and mit in bme who were not admitted to harvard). know that it is not a traditional program (so really think about the kind of program that fits your interests) that teaches its students to follow an engineering approach to the sciences in general. know that this means harvard engineering will not be the right path for everyone. finally, know that being successful as an engineer does not derive from going to the best schools according to the rankings some of the most successful people who studied engineering did so at places you would not expect (jack welch went to umass amherst for his bs in cheme, mike bloomberg went to jhu for his bs in ee, bill gates went to harvard for his almost-bs in cs, steve ballmer went to harvard for his bs in applied math, etc.). in my opinion, it is much more important to find a school with an educational philosophy that matches your own than it is to find the school with the best ranking in your field.</p>
<p>speaking for myself, when i decided to attend harvard i did so after much careful research into the programs that fit for me. i was admitted to other top programs (uws bme program ranked #4, uc berkeley/ucsfs bme program ranked #7). i asked my advisors, faculty at jhu in bme, and they considered the programs to be at an equal level (some even recommended that i attend harvard). i asked my friends and family working at some of the top engineering firms and companies in the country, and they said the same thing. i talked to multiple faculty and students at each school to figure out what each program was like. in the end, i decided to come to harvard because the program fit me perfectly and because there was no legitimate reason not to. the students in my program came from (and were admitted to) some of the top schools in the country (mit, stanford, harvard, etc.), had an average undergraduate gpa of 3.8/4.0, and perform at the top of the class in courses taken outside of engineering at harvard (i personally have a 3.7 gpa in classes taken in physics, biology, chemistry, and at the medical school). i work under a professor who is an nae member and is on the editorial board for a nature journal (this particular journal being among the top ten highest impact journals in the world for any field), and i work alongside graduate students from mit programs (cheme and bme) and i have never been happier.</p>
<p>as a final note, i apologize for writing a big essay on the subject i am obviously a bit defensive (please do not confuse this with arrogance or false pride), but i mostly want to make sure that everyone gets the story from someone who made the decision to attend harvard for bme. hopefully i touched on some points that are helpful to prospective engineering students... if you have any direct questions for me about harvard, feel free to send me an email.</p>
<p>vik, thank you for your thoughtful and thorough reply.</p>
<p>I am not really interested in bme. I'm not sure what I am interested in, but I know its not bme. How does harvard rank for more conventional engineerning programs - mechanical, electrical, chemical.</p>
<p>I think I'd really like aerospace engineering, but I believe harvard does not offer that.</p>
<p>Damn guys, my thread really got hijacked. I didn't mean to cause an argument about the exact rankings. I just wanted to know how Harvard fared against MIT/Stanford in BME...I guess I got my answer, Stanford/MIT > Harvard for this.</p>
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So even if Harvard engineering sucks (which it clearly does not, as being ranked #30 is indeed quite good), you can just take plenty of engineering classes at the #1 ranked engineering school.
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<p>I don't know how much that option is used. Taking one course over 4 years at MIT is not uncommon, but filling in the gaps in Harvard's engineering offerings by going to MIT on a regular basis would be quite a project. Good grades would be harder to attain in the MIT classes, which are larger on average (it's an engineering school, after all) and filled with very smart students who have taken more prerequisites.</p>
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I don't know how much that option is used. .
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<p>I didn't say that the option was going to be easy. I am simply pointing out that the option exists. </p>
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Taking one course over 4 years at MIT is not uncommon, but filling in the gaps in Harvard's engineering offerings by going to MIT on a regular basis would be quite a project.
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<p>But how many gaps would there really be? We're not talking about graduate school here. This is just undergrad. Let's be honest - most undergrad engineering courses are basically the same. Undergrad thermo or fluid mechanics is basically the same everywhere. Most undergrads will not take advanced specialized courses. </p>
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Good grades would be harder to attain in the MIT classes, which are larger on average (it's an engineering school, after all) and filled with very smart students who have taken more prerequisites
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<p>Uh, I fail to see how that is relevant for the purposes of this thread. I thought we were talking about the availability of courses, not where it would be easier to get good grades. Look, if all you care about is good grades, then I agree, you should just go to an easier school. Or, better yet, don't even study engineering at all (a notoriously grade deflated major). After all, most MIT engineering students would probably obtain better grades if they had gone to an easier school, and/or not even majored in engineering at all. But that doesn't deter them.</p>