Boston Globe: A higher bar for future teachers

Parent Cafe
141

<p>
[quote]
Animal farm comes to mind here. We're all equal but some are more equal than others.

[/quote]
Are you implying that there are no differences in quality amongst teachers?</p>

<p>Can you name another professional field where every evaluation, every choice for promotion, every opportunity offered, is done without any bias? And aren't administrators ex-teachers, after all? You seem to have a problems with a "layman" offering any opinion on teacher quality, so isn't this the scenario you want?</p>

142

<p>marite: It was the teachers who picketed this woman's house and taunted her children. They wore horns. These teachers had spouses on the BOE. The voters who keep these people in office are getting their own political appointments or special treatment (like awarded contracts or lower property evaluation for tax assessment, etc.) and the corrupt system continues. </p>

<p>You are correct that the teaching standards will never rise with this crowd running the show.</p>

<p>And the BOE approves every demand the teachers union makes at contract negotiation time. Hummm....do you think it might be because their spouses benefit from the most generous contract?</p>

143

<p>From my perspective, the Special Ed budget takes the lion share's money away from regular ed. Regular Ed kids don't get books because one emtionally disturbed kid needs a $100K residential placement. We have two million dollars of OUT of district placements every year, and it is a small number of children who are serviced for that $2M. Most of these kids have little to nothing they will return to society for this annual bill, and they will receive these services until they are 22 yrs old.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, the rest of the kids have to struggle along without enough instruction, programs or materials. </p>

<p>You think I'm a little sour grapesish? You bet.</p>

<p>on edit- clarity</p>

144

<p>The teachers are married to members of the BOE, but it is still members of the BOE who are responsible for hiring these dunces. So ultimately, voters need to turn them out because they are the root of the problem. Their teaching spouses are just the symptom of this corruption.</p>

<p>This is an issue that no amount of teacher training, evaluating, mentoring, etc.. will fix because it is not educational, it is political.</p>

145

<p>"So the appropriate target is not teachers or teachers' unions but " the eight other reps & the school board administrator & the superintendent" ? Surely they are the ones who ought to wear horns? And what do voters have to say about these corrupt officials? If they are not gotten rid of, you could have every single applicant to teach with a Ph.D and umpteen years teaching experience and they would not be hired, woud they?"</p>

<p>It's good to see someone else gets it. I don't think SS will however.</p>

146

<p>"Are you implying that there are no differences in quality amongst teachers"</p>

<p>You've never read Animal farm have you?</p>

147

<p>"This is an issue that no amount of teacher training, evaluating, mentoring, etc.. will fix because it is not educational, it is political."</p>

<p>But it is far easier to blame the teacher and their union. 30 second society.</p>

148

<p>marite, I think it is both political and educational. We still have huge problems with teacher quality and pedagogical fads coming out of the teachers colleges. (That is a seperate issue from the corruption & politics in many districts.) Some of the best candidates, those with double majors with demonstrated mastery of a content area, will be overlooked for a job if the mayor's nephew is up for consideration. Plus, once the teacher gets tenure, there is no accountability. All contribute to poor quality of education.</p>

149

<p>special ed shouldn't take money away
there are three pots of money for sped
one is the money from the state & district that every student recieves
two is the money from the state to cover their extra services and
three is the money from federal to cover those services</p>

<p>My daughter had an IEP from 3rd through 8th grade- for "specific learning disability" ( before that she was in private school- for her sensory issues)
This meant that for one hour a day- she went to the SPED teacher for pullout in a group to work on extra skills.</p>

<p>In 3rd grade and 4gd it worked well- ( if you allow for the fact that the 4th grade teacher seemed to think she was going to get everything she needed from resource room)
In later years however, because she couldn't tell time and because the classroom teacher didn't send her to resource, weeks would go by before I was notified
They didn't have an appropriate plan for her- they would target bare minimum and wouldn't do testing or evaluations except at end of the year to see if it was still appropriate.</p>

<p>She was just one example of someone who the schools were getting extra money for, but wasn't getting appropriate services, and this was despite I was PTA chair, that I was in the building every day, helping to tutor and provide other support in classrooms.
If I couldn't get my daughter even the minimum that is federally required to give her, I didn't have much hope for students whose parents are so willing to be a PITA.</p>

<p>Many district in our state are currently sueing the state citing that they aren't receiving enough money for SPED.
Our district is "supportive" of the suit, but didn't join it, because they could NOT prove that the money they received for SPED was spent on SPED. Because all too often those extra dollars just get dumped into the schools general budgets- and the principal reasons that since the sped kids spend most of their time in general ed classrooms, that they are served.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The state pays for 12.7 percent of a district's pupils to be designated for special-education aid that is roughly double the amount the district gets for other students. Districts can also apply for "safety net" supplements for high-cost children, such as the severely autistic.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Our district- the largest in the state- has not applied until very recently for safety net funding- because they couldnt track how they were using funds-
( well they had the same problem with the gates foundation money)</p>

<p>Ask your district how much they recieve for special education services sometime, instead of how just much they spend, find out how much they recieve & spend on athletic facilities.
Its pretty eyeopening.</p>

150

<p>Opie, you do nothing but swing insults. How would you like a little of your own medicine: Maybe your wife is an awful teacher. Maybe the administrators she resents are astute judges of character & teaching talent who are frustrated by her incompetence, but can't touch her because of tenure.</p>

<p>But it is far easier to blame the administration & society.</p>

151

<p>Well, I just wasted a good half hour reading this very long thread and somehow still feel the need to post.</p>

<p>I wanted Goaliedad to know that there is a school district that takes the different learning styles into account. For the second time in his school life, my eighth grade son was put through a self evaluation to discover his type of learning style. The teachers in the district also have training on this. Come to think of it, my daughter (ed major in IL) also had an education class on learning styles. Whether it can be put into practice and still get through the mandated standards is highly questionable. I still don't understand how one teacher can teach to all the learning styles with 25 kids in a class.(Tactile learners over hear - you can build a pyramid with clay. Visual learners over hear, you can watch a video about Egypt. Auditory learners, I have a special book that you can read.)</p>

<p>I have first hand knowledge of a student in my son's grade with Aspergers. He has a one on one aid that is with him all day. He is pulled out for math and Language Arts and mainstreamed for the rest but has his aide along side him. He has had a one-on-one person since I have known him when he was in elementary school. Not all schools are the same, Goaliedad. I feel badly that your son is not getting the support that he needs.</p>

<p>Also, perhaps my daughter school got their teaching education model from Canada. Education majors have one quarter each year with just education majors and observe and student teach as well as take classes. To be admitted to the education major, one has to have a 3.2 college gpa after freshman year.</p>

<p>She has had three student teaching experiences and, today, in fact, is finishing up a two and a half month student teaching experience. She has observed and taught in a semi rural school (6th grade), an inner city school (7th grade) and a private school (5th grade). She has taught all subjects, been vigorously critiqued and mentored. For the last month she has done virtually all of the classroom teaching including preparing the lesson plans.</p>

<p>In Pennsylvania, teachers have to take so many credits of college classes every three years. Some school districts reimburse and some don't but I believe that all require it. Our school district has mandatory in-school learning sessions where they are taught new technology or teaching strategies.</p>

<p>Having said all those positive comments about teaching, I too am not in favor of teachers unions. I have seen too many teachers stay in the system after they are obviously bored and burnt out. I also agree with an early post that the S. comes from the top with legislators making arbitrary standards to fit into the NCLB. The joy has gone out of learning for teachers and students.</p>

152

<p>Stickershock:</p>

<p>I agree that many ed schools turn out poor teachers. I am not sure that they are responsible (or at least wholly responsible) for the fads that sweep through schools. After all, when a district decides to adopt a new math curriculum or a new way of teaching reading, it is not the teachers on the front lines who make the decisions. I recall when my own k-8 school decided to adopt a new math curriculum, the teachers were baffled about how to teach it. They were not for or against it, they just had not been trained in how to deliver this new curriculum. I chatted with the same teachers a few years later, and they were far more comfortable with it and quite committed to it. But the first couple of years were rough and the teachers were rather resentful about not having been consulted. </p>

<p>I've written before that a hotshot high school principal decided to do away with honors track. She instituted this policy without consulting anyone: parents or teachers. She later wrote that she decided against consulting teachers because she did not want them to oppose her. Well, who had to struggle with implementing her fiat but the poor teachers who were faced with classes ranging in reading skills from 5th grade to college level? I saw teachers who had done good work with S1 struggling to deal with S2's cohort. That principal, by the way, came from a top notch university-affiliated School of Education; but she had a social engineering agenda that got in the way of good pedagogy. </p>

<p>Many years ago, we did have a fair amount of nepotism in the district and a rigid teachers' unon. But we still managed to get incompetent teachers re-assigned. They were retained on the payroll, but were no longer teaching. With a new head of teacher's union, that practice was eliminated. Incompetent teachers were gotten rid of, period.</p>

153

<p>Opie, I've read Animal Farm, and my daughter read it last night and we discussed it. Your position is not enhanced by the reference.</p>

<p>For the record, my S elementary principal was a witch, and I wouldn't trust her to evaluate anything. Nonetheless, all other lines of work manage to find a tolerable way to evaluate employees and distinguish the good from the bad, the useful from the useless. Musicians, doctors, corporate lawyers, government lawyers, research scientists, professors (yes, even them), they all get evaluated despite the <em>possibility</em> that an inappropriate supervisor will make a bad decision. That is how the rest of the world works. Is there some reason the ed field cannot be trusted to perform like any other field?</p>

<p>Before you hit me with the standard response: Yes, it can be difficult to evaluate the product when we are talking about children, but I don't think it is impossible. In any case, many states are now working very hard to develop methods of evaluating longitudinal data, whereby individual students are tracked from class to class, school to school. In such a system, the value added attributable to a specific teacher, or school, can be more fairly established. One problem: school boards, local and state-wide, are complaining that the procedure might violate privacy rights.</p>

154

<p>
[quote]
From my perspective, the Special Ed budget takes the lion share's money away from regular ed. Regular Ed kids don't get books because one emtionally disturbed kid needs a $100K residential placement. We have two million dollars of OUT of district placements every year, and it is a small number of children who are serviced for that $2M. Most of these kids have little to nothing they will return to society for this annual bill, till they are 22 yrs old.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, the rest of the kids have to struggle along without enough instruction, programs or materials.

[/quote]

I'm sorry to hear that your school chose to spend $100K on a residential outplacement (probably under duress of lawsuit). Unless you are in a rural school district, you'd think they'd be able to provide an equivalent solution in house for a bit less. Even a one-on-one with a teacher would cost less in most places.</p>

<p>As for my (and I'd guess EK's) special needs child, an investment of less than half that amount would yield a much more productive adult who will contribute to society. </p>

<p>And for those who may not grow up to be productive adults, what should we then do with those kids instead of spending appropriate money on making their lives as useful as they can be?</p>

<p>Yes we can be upset that our HS text books are older than the children reading them, but to blame it on special ed kids getting an appropriate environment....</p>

<p>If we took the same approach, applying healthcare resources to relatively healthy people who are likely to be taxpayers in the future and not to challenged individuals, would you say the healthcare system would be better off?</p>

155

<p>Well, in my state, school funding to cities and towns has been cut 40% since 2002. I won't turn this into a political statement, but while increased mandates are in place, we have less, and in some areas, substantially less, funding to cover even the basics.</p>

<p>No wonder our property taxes are through the roof.</p>

<p>BTW Goalie, some of these kids in out of district placements have had small group, substantially separate classrooms and one-to-one aides. Some of the kids still couldn't learn or were too disruptive. Some are learning basic life skills in a residential setting (like how to brush teeth and take a daily shower...on my tax payer dollar).</p>

156

<p>Thank you, Kathiep for understanding.</p>

<p>I know these kinds of supports (one-on-ones with parapros) are available in some better places and even one of the districts we lived in years ago (before we had his diagnosis), but somehow where we live in the South now, they haven't figured out that these kinds of supports can be very beneficial and relatively inexpensive as compared with other solutions.</p>

<p>And I'm glad to hear that some places are starting to recognize learning style. Perhaps they will start to group children in this manner and adjust teaching methods to fit the child (instead of trying to adjust the child to fit the teaching method).</p>

<p>This is not an easy task. It really takes a lot of cooperation between teachers, principals, and school district administration to agree how to group children and develop and implement multiple appropriate educational delivery systems based upon student learning strengths. It is a lot different that the current system based purely upon a static test score.</p>

<p>Definitely worth it though.</p>

<p>Allmusic,</p>

<p>I'm sorry to hear that you state is slashing the school funding. Actually that is going against the current trend where courts are starting to require states to provide a higher percentage of educational funding to be equalized across a state, so that children in poorer and rural districts get more equal opportunities. </p>

<p>And I'll be the first to admit that I don't pay enough property taxes to support my schools. Not that I don't try, though. I just can't afford a more expensive home to pay those taxes on. I am in the distinct minority here though. They haven't gotten over the extra $30 per year added to tags that they added 2 years ago.</p>

157

<p>"they do mainly report to school each day in summer"</p>

<p>Ok, then full-time teaching work 52 weeks/yr and 2 weeks of vaction would not be opposed by teachers unions in the other 14,999 school districts across the United States</p>

<p>Glad to know that</p>

158

<p>"Opie, you do nothing but swing insults"</p>

<p>And you offer up roses? :)</p>

159

<p>:I've read Animal Farm, and my daughter read it last night and we discussed it. Your position is not enhanced by the reference"</p>

<p>not even by the pigs when speaking to the rest of the animals? are you sure? </p>

<p>It's not that I disagree with you, I have simply pointing out that it appears to be a one side at fault arguement going on here. IT's the teachers. I'm saying until you know for sure those doing the evaluations are of a certain quality, how certain can you be of the opinion? Some here have given over complete confidence in the ability of a superintendent, school board or principal while citing incompedence of teachers. My point quite simply is you need to really look at the agendas of the other side of the issue before you determine the fault of one or the other. </p>

<p>I've seen school board members who belong to associations whose sole mission is the abolishment of public schools. An odd choice to belong to a public school board, no? Joining something you hate (one even bought ads in the past against the school district levies) in concept is kinda odd, don't you think? </p>

<p>The folly for us was that two of the five belonged to that group, fired the super and brought in "their" super (with complete disregard for established written district policies for hiring) without interviewing anybody else. By the way their super never held the position before. Within a year because of their "evaluations" of the educators and their dealings we went through the longest strike in state history. </p>

<p>The voters turned them out of office and in their last act garanteed the super (who was going to be fired) roughly double her salary (360,000). So if your gonna bash, understand that the other side has some problems too. </p>

<p>That's where my quote from the pigs comes in.. We are all equal, however some are more equal than others... To blindly trust any administration from school board to the whitehouse is well.... look at us today.</p>

160

<p>The suggestion of f/t teaching all year round is an interesting one but, in every district we've been in where year round schooling is suggested, the parents have made such an uproar at the thought of it, that it hasn't even passed the initial study.</p>

<p>Special education dollars in our system are 'from a different pot', so to speak, so it's not a case of the 'regular' kids losing out. Two of my Ds were identified as academically gifted when they were younger and our system had a self-contained program for grades 5-8 (in addition to a pull-out once a week option), which was a godsend for our kids, as it was for all who attended. The Education Act in Ontario contains very specific requirements for identified kids at every point of the special ed. spectrum. A boy such as goaliedad's son would have been assigned a one on one aide from the start. There are various types of self-contained special ed classes throughout our school board which help kids with many different types of challenges. For years, ours was one of the few with the self-contained option, as many other surrounding Bds. of Ed. believed that mainstreaming was best. </p>

<p>The IEP for each identified student here is reviewed annually by the parents and the school team, then the region team, then the board-wide special ed. department. Parents (and student) always have the opportunity to voice their concerns, desires, opinions and discuss what should happen the following year. Each child in the system (not just special ed. kids) has what is called an OSR, official school report, which is chock full of everything from the time they start kindergarten, and added to each year by the classroom teacher. IEP info, copies of all report cards, an end of year transition report by the teacher, all standardized testing information, health records, etc. I think that the vast majority of teachers we've come in contact with have studied those OSRs for their new kids at the beginning of each year. </p>

<p>I'm not blind to the topic of bad teachers and teacher evaluation, even though I have a D who is a new teacher. We've run into bad teachers through the years but they've been in the minority, thankfully. I can honestly say that my 4Ds had many, many dedicated, intelligent, compassionate, excellent educators in their schools. In the one elementary school where all of my kids spent time over the years, I was very involved, as were many other parents. It was a great community school where we had over 100 regular parent volunteers who participated in various capacities on a weekly basis. I myself spent approximately 20 hours a week in that school when my kids were young. We were welcomed with open arms and always felt appreciated by the many wonderful teachers there, and also by the principal. I honestly think that parent involvement is a vital part of a successful school, both for teachers and for the students. In all the years I was there, I never heard of a parent ever doing a teacher's marking. We did a lot of things but never that! :)</p>

<p>One other big difference I've noticed between the teachers we've had here in Ontario and those we had in the U.S. was the fact that all teachers here who participate in running clubs and coaching teams do so on a total voluntary basis. None are compensated in any way for the enormous amount of hours they put in. That was not the case in the U.S. schools where routinely coaches were paid to coach school teams.</p>