<p>Another piece on a much-debated topic . . .</p>
<p>From today's Boston Globe:</p>
<p>JEFF BROWN
Are top-tier private colleges worth the price of admission?
By Jeff Brown | November 4, 2006</p>
<p>Let's see if I've got this right: Be glad we were kicked in the shins because we might have been kicked in the teeth.</p>
<p>That's the key message in an annual report last week by the College Board.</p>
<p>It said tuition and fees at public four-year colleges and universities rose 6.3 percent this year, about twice the inflation rate.</p>
<p>But, happily, that was a smaller increase than in many recent years, the report said. Costs at four-year private schools also rose faster than inflation, as did those at two-year schools.</p>
<p>Answer from one full fare family: Yes. Especially if the difference is between Harvard and ZooMass. And I really don't care whether or not S will earn more money coming out of Harvard than he might at ZooMass. Right now, he is getting a great education. That's what I'm paying for.</p>
<p>The article has a point. And we parents are somewhat to blame. If Old Ivy has a new fitness center, then Almost Ivy gets a new fitness center with a climbing wall. Air-conditioned dorms are becoming more common in the north, as well as suites and gourmet meals. Schools that offer these extras get more applicants, so everyone else adds fancy stuff to stay competitive, and prices rise accordingly. My kids' education will cost about 5 times as much as mine did, and I attended an elite LAC 25 years ago. But they will get nicer dorms, better food, and better facilities. Is it worth that much money? In terms of salary payback, probably not. In terms of a one-time four-year period of their lives that will never be repeated, in which they'll mature into the adults they will be, in other words their "college experience" ... that's an individual decision.</p>
<p><<Sending a kid to a prestigious school is a real accomplishment. But lots of happy and successful people have come out of state schools.</p>
<p>At less than a third the cost, maybe they're a better buy.>></p>
<p>State schools may be a better buy from an economist's point of view
in terms of preparing your kid for a satisfying and well-paying job after graduation. And some state schools are much better than others. But the more expensive private schools offer some kids (mostly intangible) added value that may feel worth it to parents who can manage to afford it and who know their child's needs in terms of "fit". Advantages may include: smaller or more challenging classes, more individual attention, access to a strong alumni network, better science or art facilities, a stronger community feeling of shared values, even a beautifully landscaped, architecturally pleasing campus....-- but these things won't seem worth the price to all students or their families.</p>
<p>My nieghbor has a S at Princeton. My nieghbor earned about 160k a year and needless to say he'd had been paying full fare for Princeton. Last spring he lost his job. Next week his house, valued at 400k is being foreclosed on. Ironically his kid will probably stay at Princeton, with a big need package, because his parent's will soon be "officially" bankrupt. Would a full ride at a top tier state school (honors program) been such a bad option? What price Ivy?</p>
<p>The term ZooMass is an insult to the many very fine students who attend the University of MA--Amherst because they cannot afford private schools. I don't deny there are many goof-off students there, but many other students are serious and highly qualified, and their reputations, not to mention their future prospects, are damaged by the wide-spread use of this derogatory term.</p>
<p>I say that as a parent who would not send a student to UMass, and who is also a future "full-fare" family. I think we all need to keep in mind that not every great student has the financial option of choosing a private school. (Despite what the financial aid offices say.)</p>
<p>That said, I really wish the administration of UMass would take more heed of the negative reputation and DO something about it instead of bemoaning it.</p>
<p>On the topic: At this point, I would agree with Marite that if the choice is between a top private and a public with a mediocre reputation, any family that can manage the tuition is probably doing the right thing by going with the great school. I think the top tier schools are facing a difficult future, though, as more of the very good publics beef up their honors colleges and focus on building a few select programs to the highest level. I personally know quite a few professor families who have decided that even OOS tuition at good publics is an attractive deal. They are still less expensive than many privates.</p>
<p>midmo:
Who said anything about the students at UMass-Amnherst? The term ZooMass is one that students attending UMass-Amherst have coined themselves to describe the conditions that the Mass legislature has been willing to tolerate.</p>
<p>Re:
The kid at Princeton. What year is he? A student whose parents are bankrupt while attending Princeton has more chance of staying on and getting massive aid than if he were attending a less expensive school or even a state university.<br>
I recall that when the economy took a nosedive in the 1990s, lots of parents went bankrupt at a variety of schools. Harvard extended aid to all currently enrolled students to the tune of several millions. In many other colleges in the area, students in similar circumstances had to drop out. I know students drop out of UMass all the time owing to financial reasons.</p>
<p>The cost differential between Princeton and a state uni might be around $30k per year. If the student is a freshman and if he is allowed to stay on at Princeton with a full ride, he will actually come out ahead financially.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think we all need to keep in mind that not every great student has the financial option of choosing a private school. (Despite what the financial aid offices say.)
[/quote]
Agreed. But for those folks, the question asked in the article is simply moot. The question implies that the choice is available, or it makes no sense whatsoever.</p>
<p>Given that, as a potential full-fare family (and a MA resident as well), I also have to say yes. Many state universities are wonderful institutions. However, they are wonderful institutitions that are generally large research universities. For those of us who have kids who need the LAC environment, and want a residential experience, there are very few public options. A kid who will do well at Vassar would probably not do so well at Michigan. As we've seen so many times on these boards, one size does not fit all.</p>
<p>So we are stuck with those expensive private schools. And those whose kids want to stay in the Northeast for whatever reason (close to family, hate flying, love winter, etc.) have even fewer choices. There is only one public college set out as an LAC that I know of - St. Mary's of Maryland. And that's a very isolated one, on the Eastern Shore, 45 minutes from anywhere. While other schools have "honors colleges" as part of their universities, I have yet to hear from a single student who says that they do in fact mimic an LAC in terms of class sizes and personal interaction with faculty and staff.</p>
<p>So what do we do? We pinch pennies, put off retirement, and do whatever else we can to send our kid to the college with the best "fit" for her. If that's a school that gives her merit aid, that's great, but I'm not counting on it. And of course her top choices don't give merit aid at all. If she gets in, and she wants to, she's going. And we'll do what we have to do to make it happen. That's the promise my h and I made to her the day she was born. Other families make other choices. This one's ours.</p>
<p>As the parent of a current HS junior, I would say "No Way!" All of you with current juniors should avoid having your child apply to any selective college -- it's just not worth it. :eek:</p>
<p>(Just trying to reduce the admissions competition for the class of '08!)</p>
<p>One of the major appeals to me of a private college is that their endowments make them more stable. At many state schools, the budget is at the whim of the legislature. Low tax revenues lead to university budget cuts, fewer professors, and elimination of programs - with little or no warning to students in the middle of their college careers.</p>
<p>I'm yet another MA resident, and I think it's embarassing how little pride (read: money) this state invests in UMass. Maybe because it's out in the boonies, while Harvard and MIT are practically next door to the State House? There are some great, and increasingly selective, state schools in the south - UVA and UNC, just to name 2, and more coming up like Clemson. Those states take great pride in their university systems. The budget-trimming was at UMass was glaringly apparent on our tour there. Most people in Mass would think of themselves and their state as more highly educated than South Carolina, but take a tour of UMass Amherst and a tour of Clemson, and see which state actually puts their higher education dollars where their mouths are!</p>
<p>I don't want this to turn into a "bash UMass" thread, but we were utterly appalled when we visited. It just isn't a setting we would consider, even if it is significantly cheaper than most any other available option (as a family who will not qualify for aid).</p>
<p>It burns me up that some states (Michigan, NC, VA, CA) have fantastic public college options, in comparison to what we have. But we will bite the bullet and pay the big bucks, because the alternative just isn't worth it.</p>
<p>As another full-fare payer, I say yes, top-tier private colleges are worth it.</p>
<p>What I cannot understand, though, is why anyone would pay a higher price for a not-so-top-tier private college rather than a state university of equivalent or better quality. </p>
<p>I live in Maryland, so my family doesn't have to deal with ZooMass. Instead, we have UMCP, which is not in the top rank of state institutions but is reasonably respectable (around #50 to #55, most years, on the US News list). My kids have always known that the only way my husband and I would be willing to pay for a private college is if it is significantly better than UMCP or offers something special (e.g., a really good program in a specialty major) that the kid wants and UMCP cannot offer. </p>
<p>I recently heard about a kid in our area who wants to go to Syracuse University -- and not for one of its highly respected specialty programs, such as communications, but for an ordinary liberal arts major that you can do anywhere. Syracuse and UMCP are essentially tied in most college rankings, and the kid's credentials are such that he could get in to UMCP. So why spend the extra money? I don't get it.</p>
<p>The question for me is not so much is it worth it from a career perspective, as the data suggest that is likely not to be an issue, but is it worth it from the experience my kid is getting? So far, I would pay twice the tuition charged for the experience S is enjoying. We will never know if the same experience could have been had at the local, excellent, State U, but that does not detract from the value already received elsewhere.</p>
<p>In contrast, a friend's very accomplished D hated her expensive selectiveprivate and left after one semester returning to the State U where she is as happy as a anyone could be. To have her stay would not have been worth half the cost. One has to look at one's kids and help them make the best choice from them, and support them the best one can thereafter.</p>
<p>On our second college tour last spring, there was one private top 100 school with appalling facilites and course choice. A second private top 25 school campus was distinctly untidy. Untidy campuses make me wonder if the administration has other areas of mismanagement.</p>
<p>I don't care about dorm rooms. Learning to live in a sardine can is a handy skill for a 20-something kid.</p>
<p>I would prefer to pay full fare for private--and have done so throughout the primary, secondary and teritary education. At the tertiary level, private buys an introduction to a group of friends from all over the world. I thought it was a fabulous opportunity when I was in university and I want the same for my children.</p>
<p>I agree with Marian. Kids from our very competitive high school in PA regularly choose schools like Boston U and Syracuse U over our flagship U. I can see going private if a student really doesn't like a big school atmosphere - but how are these schools worth three times the price of our top 50 state U? Our son was accepted to a few top 50 schools - some very expensive. He chose the honors program at our State U and time will tell if this was a good choice. He WANTED big though - so I think he'll be fine.
On a final note, we had a local family SELL their house and move into a tiny apartment so their son could go to a very expensive mid-ranked LAC. Hmmm...are they to be admired or do you think they're going a bit too far? Personally, my belief is that there are many good "fits" out there. You want small? Try a small state school like Geneseo. It's a bargain, even for out of staters.</p>
<p>Everything is relative --if you are really flat broke well, the private is probably cheaper due to finaid. Otherwise --going deep into debt you cannot pay back for a private school is ridiculous. Making retirement impossible for a private school is ridiculous. But there are people here who can swing it without jeopardizing their health or well-being. For them it is a personal choice. There are others who, relatively speaking, are wealthy whether they see themselves that way or not. $200K is not the same for all of us. The value of the education may be relative but so is the value of the money. My two kids are in private school, both on financial aid. If we did not receive the aid it would be inconceivable. BUT if I had the money I would rather spend it on the schools than a better house or car or trips or even extra savings.</p>