<p>^^^
If actual knowledge was a requirement for posting on this site there would be almost no posts and fewer people reading them.</p>
<p>there’s a difference between knowing some and making assumptions about the rest and knowing nothing and pulling random (and incorrect) ideas/facts out of their @ss</p>
<p>April…(Mei…June : ) Have you visited U. Mich/Ann Arbor when school is in session and spent some time in a class or two? Do you have any pals you can come visit? I’d be inclined to agree with those who regard U Mich as the stronger academic program – and I also suspect you may really enjoy the overall campus experience, depending on what you’re looking for. My s. compared the two schools (among others) and selected U of M as a breakaway first choice in his particular program. He has loved every minute both academically and socially so far, sleep or no sleep : ) </p>
<p>The poster who considers the two schools closely comparable may not have actually visited either school yet, so that’s what Bearcats is talking about. He’s not being overly mean – it’s just that the poster in question frequently offers opinions that are not informed by direct experience and sometimes come off as ill-conceived. Eg. in the past he’d based his perceptions of Ann Arbor on an ariel Google map as opposed to a direct visit ; )</p>
<p>Undergraduate school rankings are essentially meaningless (and are garbage statistically) and schools like Michigan benefit dramatically from the halo effect of highly ranked graduate programs, little of which directly affect your undergraduate experience. So it matters to you as a person unsure of your self-worth that you go to a school with more prestige in some BS ranking system but it doesn’t matter in the rest of life, in applications to grad schools or in what you learn in school. It simply doesn’t. I read dozens of posts on the UofM board about whether having a Michigan degree guarantees you a job. Total garbage thinking. Do well at any good school and you have the same shots in life.</p>
<p>/Interlude: Usually at this point some kid chimes in with “Well, Harvard matters.” Yes, Harvard matters. Yale matters - I went to Yale and can vouch that it gets you in doors. But you won’t make more money as an accountant or engineer or teacher or ad copywriter because of the name on your degree and you still have to succeed on your own. Period. The main determinants of salary are the field and the location - because you make more money in New Jersey than in Arkansas. /End of interlude.</p>
<p>Go to the law school board. You’ll learn that Harvard kids tend to get into the top law programs because they score higher on the LSAT. They tend to score higher on the LSAT because they tended to score higher on the SAT. Michigan isn’t going to magically raise your SAT number to a top LSAT number. You aren’t going to receive an education that hurts you on the LSAT, MCAT or GRE at any good school. That is why a kid from Ball State or Montana who can score well has the same shot at law school.</p>
<p>My advice is always: go where you feel comfortable, where they have your program, where you can afford.</p>
<p>“Undergraduate school rankings are essentially meaningless (and are garbage statistically) and schools like Michigan benefit dramatically from the halo effect of highly ranked graduate programs, little of which directly affect your undergraduate experience. So it matters to you as a person unsure of your self-worth that you go to a school with more prestige in some BS ranking system but it doesn’t matter in the rest of life, in applications to grad schools or in what you learn in school. It simply doesn’t. I read dozens of posts on the UofM board about whether having a Michigan degree guarantees you a job. Total garbage thinking. Do well at any good school and you have the same shots in life.”</p>
<p>Really? That was pretty garbage advice if you ask me. That was the type of advice that helped me make the mistake of coming to Michigan instead of going to Wharton.
First of all, who said it’s based on some type of rankings? Prestige is different from any BS rankings. For instance, Ross was ranked higher than Wharton on one of Business Week’s stupid rankings, but everyone know that Wharton is more prestigious than Ross and would recruit at Wharton before they recruit at Ross. Like it or not, prestige matters. Just ask any of the bulge brackets ibanks and M/B/B consulting firm that recruit on campus. How about elite boutiques like Lazard, Moelis etc? How about all the fancy prop shops and hedge funds that posts here, for example, DE Shaw, Citadel, DRW, Jane Street, Optiver, Jump, Spot, Chicago Trading and such.
None of them recruit at BU, undergrad or graduate level. And if you ever go through recruiting of any of these companies, you will know how applying online is almost like putting your resume in the trash can.</p>
<p>In fact, I met at kid from BU when I interviewed for the trading arm of an energy supermajor (one of Exxon, Shell, BP) and he was whining about how he had to jump through hoops and network his ass off to get an interview at piper jeffrays while all I had to do is drop my resume for the top banks and consulting firms.</p>
<p>OK – I will spin the table around with this question: what if the OP isn’t interested in banking and consulting firms?</p>
<p>That’s not my point. I am just saying a one size fit all comment like “do well at any school and you have the same shots in life” is plain BS, and to think that prestige doesnt matter is also stupid.</p>
<p>^^ I agree that a one-size-fits-all answer can mislead a student.</p>
<p>I think the poster made my point. He says that Ross is ranked higher but that Wharton does better in the marketplace. My basic point was that undergrad rankings are statistical garbage and that grad school matters. </p>
<p>As to the rest, Michigan is in the midwest. To expect a Michigan degree to mean much on the east coast is silly. To people in NYC or Boston, it’s a good school that begins with an M, much like Minnesota. Wharton is on the east coast and everyone on the east coast knows Wharton. That was also my point, that location and your field matters. Every survey of incomes shows that where you live has a bigger effect on your income than which school you went to because once you’re in the workforce in your region then …</p>
<p>who said Michigan is better than BU based on undergrad rankings? Michigan is better than BU because of its reputation, prestige and career placement.</p>
<p>“To expect a Michigan degree to mean much on the east coast is silly. To people in NYC or Boston, it’s a good school that begins with an M, much like Minnesota.”
hmm funny. Almost all the bulge brackets, MBB, elite boutiques, prop shops, hedge funds in NYC do on campus recruiting at Michigan and NONE do significant recruiting at BU. This further proves Michigan is significantly better than BU grad or undergrad. BU, with its geographical advantage, cant even draw the elite investment banks, hedgefunds and strat consulting firms from their backyard in while Michigan attract these elite employers all the way from the midwest.</p>
<p>Let’s compare on campus recruiting</p>
<p>Elite Consulting firms
Mckinsey: Michigan- Yes BU No
BCG: Michigan- Yes BU-No
Bain: Michigan-Yes BU-No</p>
<p>Elite bulge bracket investment banks</p>
<p>Goldman Sachs: Michigan-Yes BU-Not front office
Morgan Stanley: Michigan-Yes BU-No
JP Morgan: Michigan- Yes BU - Not front office
Bank of America Merrill Lynch: Michigan- Research/Risk BU- Operations
Citi: Michigan- Yes BU-Operations
Credit Suisse: Michigan-Yes BU-Yes
UBS:Michigan-Yes BU-No
Deutsche: Michigan-Yes BU-No</p>
<p>Elite boutiques:
Lazard: Michigan-Yes BU- No
Greenhill: Michigan- Yes BU-No
Moelis: Michigan- Yes BU-No</p>
<p>Elite prop shops:
Jane Street: Michigan - No BU - No
DRW : Michigna- yes BU - No
Optiver: Michigan- Yes BU - No
SIG: Michigan-Yes BU-No</p>
<p>oh and the best part is, almost everyone of these firms are in the East Coast, somewhere BU should have definite advantage according to your BS logic.
But the fact is, in general, the elite career opportunities available to Michigan Grads are not available to a BU Grad, unless he’s prepared to network his ass off and by-pass the system</p>
<p>All undergraduate schools are equal unless they are in the northeast, which is the only part of the country that matters . Signed, Lergnom.</p>
<p>
Uh… Wharton ranks higher in almost any poll.</p>
<p>
Graduate school counts as part of your alumni network. In fact, it counts more as your graduate alum are more likely in the position for hiring decisions.</p>
<p>
In engineering, Michigan is better as it has better industrial connections.</p>
<p>as much as this conversation is interesting, recruiting on campus or discussing the business or engineering school has little importance to my needs. I would be studying in LSA hoping to one day get into medical school. How do the science programs both at BU and UMich compare? Also, I’ve noticed that since BU is mostly a research school, most professors seem distracted by their research and put little interest in making sure students do well in their classes. How does this compare at UMich.
To one of the previous posts, I have recently visited the University of Michigan and I can say there is quite a difference between the environment at BU and at UMich. The overall campus and community feeling might be what I am looking for that BU does not offer. But I also want to make sure that I can get the same solid science background I am getting at BU. Even though UMich is a great school, I’ve heard that most of its prestige amounts from their business and engineering school. While that is great, I would not be studying at Ross or the Engineering school.</p>
<p>Michigan is superior to BU academically in virtually every discipline that both offer. Michigan is easily a top 10-15 school in most all of the so called hard sciences. Michigan is also just as well known for it’s social science and humanities concentrations at the UG level, among so many other areas, as it is for business and engineering. It has no glaring weaknesses in any of it’s academic programs.</p>
<p>From my own research I do see University of Michigan graduate school with more prestige than Boston University. Though when comparing undergraduate, internships, recruitment etc… I think neither school has a definate league of one another, both have the potential… it really starts to be become base off of what your looking for in a university as in environment, campus community, resources of campus and city etc… which is basically the OP’s concern. </p>
<p>Both schools are great and are in about equal leagues speaking of undergraduate, though if your concern graduate school University of Michigan has more prestige… but even with graduate school one school scores much higher than another in specific areas.</p>
<p>^^^^Now who could argue with that advice?</p>
<p>“I think the poster made my point. He says that Ross is ranked higher but that Wharton does better in the marketplace.”</p>
<p>Actually, the poster was wrong. Wharton has always been ranked higher than Ross in both Businessweek and the USNWR. The only exception were the first two USNWR undergraduate Business school rankings that had Ross and Wharton tied at #1. However, the overwhelming number of rankings have Wharton ranked slightly higher than Roiss, just as it should be. Otherwise, Michigan is always ranked 1-3 spots lower than Wharton at the BBA level.</p>
<p>"As to the rest, Michigan is in the midwest. To expect a Michigan degree to mean much on the east coast is silly. To people in NYC or Boston, it’s a good school that begins with an M, much like Minnesota. Wharton is on the east coast and everyone on the east coast knows Wharton. That was also my point, that location and your field matters. Every survey of incomes shows that where you live has a bigger effect on your income than which school you went to because once you’re in the workforce in your region then … "</p>
<p>I agree to a degree Lergnom. In most parts of the Northeast, Michigan would not be as recognized as most elite northeastern schools. But there are two notable exceptions where Michigan has forged a very strong reputation: New York City and Washington DC. Those two cities have, quite literally, tens of thousands of Michigan alums, often in key positions, such as lawyers, doctors, company executives. In those two cities, Michigan is virtually unbeatable.</p>
<p>“Though when comparing undergraduate, internships, recruitment etc… I think neither school has a definate league of one another, both have the potential…”</p>
<p>campus recruiting</p>
<p>Elite Consulting firms
Mckinsey: Michigan- Yes BU No
BCG: Michigan- Yes BU-No
Bain: Michigan-Yes BU-No</p>
<p>Elite bulge bracket investment banks</p>
<p>Goldman Sachs: Michigan-Yes BU-Not front office
Morgan Stanley: Michigan-Yes BU-No
JP Morgan: Michigan- Yes BU - Not front office
Bank of America Merrill Lynch: Michigan- Research/Risk BU- Operations
Citi: Michigan- Yes BU-Operations
Credit Suisse: Michigan-Yes BU-Yes
UBS:Michigan-Yes BU-No
Deutsche: Michigan-Yes BU-No</p>
<p>Elite boutiques:
Lazard: Michigan-Yes BU- No
Greenhill: Michigan- Yes BU-No
Moelis: Michigan- Yes BU-No</p>
<p>Elite prop shops:
Jane Street: Michigan - No BU - No
DRW : Michigna- yes BU - No
Optiver: Michigan- Yes BU - No
SIG: Michigan-Yes BU - No</p>
<p>Almost all ELITE firms on the East Coast, mostly in NYC and Boston, IGNORE Boston University when it comes to on campus recruiting, and take the trouble to come on Michigan’s campus. I wonder why go through all that trouble if both schools are anywhere close to the same league
You definitely can’t blame them since there are so many colleges around Boston that are significantly better than BU, including Harvard, MIT, BC, Tufts, Brandeis, Wellesley, Olin College of Engineering just off the top of my head.</p>
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<p>This is a vital info that Michigan needs to proclaim loudly: going to Michigan will increase your chance of being hired in the two awesome cities NYC and DC.</p>
<p>But what about the West Coast? Does Michigan have better prestige than UCLA in the West Coast? Are there as much UM alumni in San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco as in NYC and DC?</p>
<p>No, in the West Coast Michigan will not be more recognized than UCLA, although it does have a strong reputation in its own right in the West Coast, particularly in LA, the Bay area and Seattle, where many Wolverines have played a key role in major Silicon Valley firms, including alums such as Larry Page (Google co-founder), Bill Joy (Sun Microsystem Co-Founder) and Claude Shannon (Father of Information Technology). Other prominent alums have also left their mark in the West Coast. However, the key reason why UCLA is more well recognized in its own turf is becuase it is virtually equal to Michigan academically, so it is only fitting that it be as recognized in the West Coast.</p>