<p>Would you encourage your child to attend a college where he/she would likely graduate in the bottom 50% of the class?</p>
<p>What if he/she would likely graduate in the bottom 25% of the class?</p>
<p>Sure, depending on the school and the student’s interests. Just as an example, a student who wanted to do computer science at Caltech. The kid is going to get an incredible education, with great prospects, regardless of GPA. That wouldn’t bother me at all, unless I thought the kid was in real danger of not graduating.</p>
<p>It depends on the child and on the college in question.</p>
<p>For crying out loud! 25% of every single graduating class at every single college and university in the country is the “bottom 25%”. Where are you from anyway? Lake Wobegon? None of us can forever be “above average”!</p>
<p>How would you reach the conclusion that any given student is “likely” to be in the lower half of their class? The SATs aren’t a predictor of grades. They’re more like the 40-yard dash times and bench press repetitions that are measured at the NFL scouting combine. On the basis of those diagnostic tests, football teams draft players in the first rounds who are busts and players in the last round who become Hall of Famers. College students with high and low SATs and GPAs sometimes bomb and some with lower stats blossom!</p>
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<p>I think this needs to be added to the list of truisms here at CC. It’s right up there with love the kid on the couch.</p>
<p>You know what they give the kid who graduates last in the class? Their diploma!</p>
<p>If the kid is accepted to a particular college why would one think they’re liable to graduate in the bottom half or quarter of the class? If the college accepts the kid then they generally think the kid can succeed there. There are many reasons why one might end up somewhere less than the top including competition from other classmates, inadequate studying, too much partying or other distractions, sometimes stretching themselves and taking tougher GPA-busting courses rather than the easy path, etc. Of course, half the class ends up in the bottom half but that doesn’t mean gloomy skies are ahead for them. </p>
<p>If one wanted to operate on the theory of having the greatest chance to be at the top of the class they’d probably pick the least selective college they could find as opposed to what many do which is to go to one of the more selective colleges they were accepted to.</p>
<p>A more direct answer - I’d be happy to have my kid attend any college they were accepted to that they wanted to attend, including the most selective ones where they might have the most student competition.</p>
<p>Some kids can have a complete mental meltdown if they are not at the top despite their best efforts. If that’s a kind of kid you have, you are right to worry.</p>
<p>The first welcome at Carnegie Mellon’s School of Computer Science the dean asked everyone who had graduated in the top 10% of their class to raise their hands. Just about everyone did. Then he asked who thought they’d graduate in the top 10% at SCS. The same kids raised their hands. Then he pointed out it just wasn’t going to happen, but highlighted what even the kids at the bottom of the class do. It’s like the old med school joke. “What do you call the kid who graduates the bottom of his class at med school?” Answer: “Doctor.” </p>
<p>I also agree with others there is no way to predict who will do well and who won’t. My son commented that in a number of courses he did better than kids who had better backgrounds in the subject than he did. He just worked harder.</p>
<p>As a high school senior, I can definitely see the appeal of being in the top 25% of your college class. </p>
<p>But previous posters have it right. The bottom 20% of the graduating class at Harvard graduated from Harvard.</p>
<p>I know a young man whose test scores place him below the 25th percentile of one of the nation’s top schools (think HYPSM) but who was admitted there, presumably on the basis of his other accomplishments. When we last spoke, he had not yet decided between that school and a public school where his stats would be far above the norm.</p>
<p>Certainly, his test scores do not predict his ultimate performance at the top school. However, I think this young man would almost certainly graduate near the top of his class if he attends the public, while at the top school there would be a significant possibility of finishing in the bottom half or even the bottom quarter.</p>
<p>If he goes to the top school, he gets a top-notch undergraduate education and makes valuable contacts with the movers and shakers that he encounters there - but he may forfeit all hopes of graduate school and even some initial job opportunities because of his grades and class standing.</p>
<p>If he goes to the public school, he may be an academic superstar who gets all the research opportunities, the professors’ best attention, the school’s top accolades, and a clear path to graduate school - but he won’t get that top-notch undergraduate experience, and he won’t have that HYPSM credential, unless he gets it on the graduate school level.</p>
<p>Which path benefits him the most?</p>
<p>either will suit him well.
I know a kid literally at the bottom of the top engineering school. Sophomore year total GPA was 1.9.
Still got a lab research position for the summer with pay and working with one of the top people in his field at another University.</p>
<p>Are we sure that college transcripts rank students??? You get a diploma and a list of courses and grades and overall G.P.A. How would anyone know you are in the bottom of the class?</p>
<p>well dont think they do, but if you know your gpa is in the academic probation range you can bet your at the near bottom</p>
<p>When will this madness ever end???</p>
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<p>My daughter is a junior at Barnard. Her test scores put her below the 25th percentile for her school. Since she attends Barnard, she also takes classes at Columbia (usually 1-2 classes per semester) - where she probably is way below that 25th percent mark. She has earned A’s in all the classes she has taken at Columbia, including one class with an A+. She will probably graduate *summa cum laude<a href=“However,%20an%20A-%20will%20bring%20her%20GPA%20down,%20so%20its%20possible%20that%20she%20is%20only%20looking%20at%20%5Bi%5Dmagna%20cum%20laude%5B/i%5D”>/i</a> </p>
<p>The real question is what this young man’s study habits are. I think my daughter was a little intimidated her first semester, so she focused on her studies and didn’t join any clubs or get involved with EC’s then. So she made a point right from the start of keeping up. She got a C on her first midterm and she went to talk to the prof & really worked on figuring out what was expected of her – that was when she learned that in college, just having the right answers on an exam isn’t enough. The very next exam in the same class, she got a perfect score.</p>
<p>Test scores are meaningless. The colleges know this – if US News didn’t use test score statistics to rank colleges, I’m sure the Ivies would accept from a broader range of scores.</p>
<p>My son went off to college with test scores well above the norm for the LAC he chose – he was a National Merit scholar … but he slacked off and didn’t finish school. (Worse than graduating at the “bottom” is to not graduate at all). He took time off and then transferred to an in-state public, where he did very well. Pretty much straight A’s plus he ended up getting a very significant honor and opportunity that probably makes it all worth it for him – by the time he went back to school he was much more focused and of course it was easy for him to stand out. He has graduated now and has a good job. But the name of the school on his diploma is a little bit of a problem… it is respectable (i.e., most people have heard of it) – but it is not impressive. </p>
<p>I don’t understand why you think this student will “forfeit” chances at grad school by going to a top college – sometimes the top college have more grade inflation than various public schools. The issue really is more his personality and learning style. I don’t think my son had problems at his LAC because of difficulty --he seemed to do the worst in the classes that you would think would be the easiest, and he had A’s in classes you would think are tougher, like Chemistry. I think my son does better with more pressure, so he did best in classes that were more structured with regular exams, not so good when the whole grade depended on a paper at the end of the semester (and he didn’t start working on it until the week before it was due). Some students rise to challenges, slack off when things are too easy and they think they can get away with minimal work. </p>
<p>The school environment can be a problem, too … its easy to fall behind and mess up if there is too much drinking and partying going on. That can happen at any school… but again, a kid in a demanding academic environment who is worried about his grades might be less likely to think he can get away with partying all the time.</p>
<p>Isn’t this exactly the same question as “Should I go for the easy As to boost my college GPA or should I push myself by taking tough classes and maybe learn something”?</p>
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<p>Just curious…what is there beside having the right answer on an exam that could increase your grades?</p>
<p>I don’t believe that being in the bottom half of your class at HYP is going to forever kill your chances of going to grad school. Perhaps with grade inflation, the GPA isn’t really that bad…at least above the 3.0 that grad schools seem to like.</p>
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It was an exam that required an essay-type response. I remember that it was a psychology class, the question was about Freud, and the “right” answer was something like, “the id, the ego, and the super-ego”. There were a certain number of points that could possibly be earned with the essay – maybe 20, and maybe the prof had given my daughter 10 or 12 points. My daughter had written one paragraph with a brief definition. The prof wanted in-depth analysis of the concepts, at least as in-depth as possible in the time alloted on the midterm.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is that my daughter had AP credit, so she had signed up for an advanced psych course. It was a large class and she was the only freshman – so there wasn’t the sort of hand-holding or clear explanation of exam expectations that profs were giving in some classes geared to first year students. My daughter started her first semester by leaping into the deep end of the pool… so she had to swim quite furiously at first to keep her head above water. </p>
<p>But as noted, she ended up doing quite well. She told me later that year that she felt that she was one of the more capable students – that she would put herself in the top third or top quarter of the students. (Her GPA clearly puts her in the top 10% – and my daughter is not the type to boast – I’m mentioning this only in the context of the OP’s remarks). </p>
<p>One problem with SAT scores is that they do NOT test deep, analytical skills. SAT’s are perfect for students with a good memory, strong vocabulary, and quick reasoning skills. Question, answer, question, answer, question, answer… and so on. My d. like to take a little more time to think things through – but she writes and expresses herself very well. </p>
<p>So I think when she learned that the goal in college was not merely to feed back the expected answer… but instead to apply thoughtful analysis to concepts and problems – then she realized she was in her element. And that might be where a lot of top SAT-scorers fall off – maybe they have the ability that she didn’t to supply the right choice to a lot of multiple-choice questions, quickly, without being thrown off by trick questions or distractors – but some of them aren’t so good about reading several hundred pages of material from different sources and then writing a cogent analysis.</p>
<p>Bottom line: college is nothing like the SAT (or ACT). I think AP exams are a lot closer to college work - and my daughter had all 4’s & 5’s on the APs, including at least 2 exams where she hadn’t taken the underlying AP course. Of course that wasn’t a factor in admissions – but it is a question I might suggest that the OP ask to the student in question – if he did well on AP exams, he probably has the capacity well on college exams.</p>
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<p>Some of ‘us’ can indeed be forever above average. But most cannot.</p>