<p>Any comments? Williams is beautiful and I love the outdoors, but so is Bowdoin. Swat is closer to an urban center, I guess,and seems diverse and openminded, also beautiful, and all have stellar reps and intellectual rigor. If I am insanely lucky enough to get into all three, (HAHA) what do people think of them in comparison? Alone? Some of my concerns: Since this is the Williams thread (sorry if you read my posts on the other threads, just trying to find as many current students as possible, hope this is OK) Is Williams too uptight and stress inducing academically? Is Bowdoin cliquey? Is Swat too serious and intellectual? Yup, I have included all the cliches. So if anyone wants to support or refute them, please do. And thanks in advance for help for a nervous city boy who wants a new adventure but wants to feel like my social life can be easy-easier than it was at my uptight NY private school, and my mind can be blown and not just by learning, but the outdoors. Thanks.</p>
<p>"Is Williams too uptight and stress inducing academically?"</p>
<p>The three schools you name are also going to involve some stress, but the big shocker about college is that no school wants you to be so academic'd that you have no time to contribute to the college community. I have significantly fewer assignments at Williams that take less time than the 8 hours a day that was high school.</p>
<p>I can't say that for sure about the other schools, but I know it's true here. Manage your work right and you'll be fine. The stress results from when you try to do too much, because there are so many things to do and see.</p>
<p>And let me tell you, we've got the outdoors covered. There are ridges in all directions, including Stone Hill immediately south, and the Outing Club has a large board that organizes trips and all sorts of activities, many of which give you PE credit. (Though the PE requirement is pretty easy)</p>
<p>Great post. Thanks.</p>
<p>There are good opportunities for outdoor recreation at most of the LACs in northern New England and upstate New York, including Bowdoin. However, Williams is particularly close to the mountains and forests (as you will see if you compare campuses on Google Earth). At other New England LACs, it's a short drive to the scenery. At Williams, you can walk there. </p>
<p>For example, Bowdoin is justly proud of its 118-acre Coastal Studies Center -- but it's about a 20-minute drive from the Bowdoin campus. Williams owns the 2600-acre Hopkins Memorial Forest, which stretches over parts of MA, VT, and NY -- and the entrance is only about a mile from the western side of the Williams campus. </p>
<p>Swarthmore is located in the midst of the Philadelphia suburbs and is not particularly noted for outdoor recreation. It apparently does have a nice arboretum.</p>
<p>Swarthmore students take their work seriously but they also know how to have a good time and relax every once in a while. I don't know how Swarthmore compares to other selective colleges in terms of how intellectual it is, but Swat definitely markets itself as very intellectual. Intellectual conversations pop up every once in a while. It's not like everyone is talking about really intellectual things 24/7.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It apparently does have a nice arboretum.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Swarthmore doesn't "have" an arboretum, the entire campus "is" an arborteum.</p>
<p>Over half of Swarthmore's campus is forest along the Crum Creek which runs through a fairly steep ravine/valley. Walking/hiking trails through the woods start at the back doors of about a dozen buildings and dorms on campus, so the woods are very tightly integrated into the campus with a number of campus features (Lang Concert Hall, Cornell Science Library, Scott Amphiteater, Dana/Hollowell dorm) actually built into the edge of the woods.</p>
<p>Crum Woods:</p>
<p><a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/109/293999167_ccc45dd08f_o.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://farm1.static.flickr.com/109/293999167_ccc45dd08f_o.jpg</a>
<a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/86/278077084_8762000dd7_b.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://farm1.static.flickr.com/86/278077084_8762000dd7_b.jpg</a>
<a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/210/474871139_a60413e299_b.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://farm1.static.flickr.com/210/474871139_a60413e299_b.jpg</a></p>
<p>Search for the following phrase for video of the trails in the Crum woods shot from a camera on a mountain bike:</p>
<p>YouTube Swarthmore Mountain Bike Ride</p>
<p>The Crum Woods are used for a number of "official" college events including the blind-folded trust walk and bonfire during first year orientation and the annual Crum Creek Regatta when students build and "sail" makeshift boats down the creek, some more successfully than others:</p>
<p>The biggest issue right now is that deer have overrun the forest. After much discussion (you can imagine), the College is now trying to get the necessary state permits to bring in sharpshooters to thin the herd every year during winter break.</p>
<p>from what i've heard, swat is INCREDIBLY different than bowdoin/midd/williams, probably because it doesn't compete in the nescac sports. but the atmosphere there is incredibly weird and just...weird.</p>
<p>so yes the stereotype about swat is incredibly true, and backed by real evidence: they don't compete in the nescac and it's just not as laid back. theres also no football...what school doesn't have football? i've never gone to any football games in my life at my school but i wouldn't want to be at a school that doesn't have the basic...things. it's just weird.</p>
<p>as for the stereotype of williams being stressful and bowdoin being "cliquey", that honestly can happen at any school. would you say yale is more stressful than harvard? i don't really understand where these questions are based... the same goes for being "cliquey". </p>
<p>as far as I'm concerned bowdoin is the least "cliquey" out of midd and williams because it's the smallest and it's easier to know people...midd has tons of people and febs that come in randomly in the year so you're kind of lost if you don't have a group of friends. but... it's really around the same for every school.</p>
<p>cilyboi your logic is circular. "weird" is a normative statement that is justified only if you were already convinced not being a part of the NESCAC or not having a football team was somehow weird. i think i would have much preferred bowdoin without its football team, which was expensive, required more athletic tips than other sports, and was routinely unsuccessful. i think swarthmore has a unique and very special environment. it doesn't suit everyone (i have friends who have loved it and others who have left), but it's an important school among the nation's best schools and can hardly be dismissed by being "weird." have you attended each of these schools? </p>
<p>i would agree, however, that the current obsession over bowdoin being cliquey seems odd. in my experience, it's a school that accommodates many different types of groups, but none of them exclusive.</p>
<p>swat seems similar to my high school - both without football teams, similar popluation size, not the best at sports, very liberal, intellectual but at the same time relaxed environment.
i think people exaggerate the "nerdiness" of swat a bit, and anyways, wouldn't you like to go to a college that will stimulate you intellecually and give you all that experience and opportunity to grow?</p>
<p>in my mind, williams seems like it has that very "classic prep" college feel. and i am definitely up for that experience, because my high school was so alternative. i would absolutely LOVE to go to williams because i feel that it too could open so many doors for me and help me learn so much. but the thing that makes me nervous, besides actually getting in, is that i too have read that williams isnt very diverse, most of the kids all went to prep school together and sort-of have that stereotype of being the "rich, white kids." ive heard that though williams does try its best to be inclusive and diverse, there really isnt much they can do to truly help all the students feel connected. now this is just what i have read - so please dont give me any grief about it. i too am wondering if it really is like that there, or if some people are just making something out of nothing.</p>
<p>i actually dont really know anything at all about bowdoin, so i wont give my 2 cents.</p>
<p>ive visited swat, and the campus was absolutely lovely, and i really like how green and immersed it was in nature (with the creek and being an arboretum and all) while at the same time, it was only like a 10-15 minute train ride to the city. that to me, is something not a lot of schools can offer. and i think they are like 40-50% minority/non-whites there?
ive never been to williams, but, if things go well and i get in in a couple of weeks, ill prob visit during spring break!</p>
<p>as you can see, i am actually quite torn between williams and swat...both are top top schools academically, but would definitely bring different things to the table and suit certain people over others</p>
<p>and also, i am clearly only a high school senior, and dont attend any of these schools, so feel free to ignore everything i have to say! best regards :)</p>
<p>Um my S and his GF, both at Williams, are public school kids as are many of their friends.</p>
<p>Both are somewhat alternative but neither make a career out of it. I don't know if this helps whitelily.</p>
<p>Neither has felt out of place with prep school kids being cliquey. The entry system fosters immediate social contact, though of course, some entries are more successful than others.</p>
<p>S and some of his friends were dubbed "the NY mafia" but they came from very diverse high schools and were racially diverse as well. His entry mates and close friends included two African-American guys, one Hispanic guy, two Jewish public school kids, one CA public school kid. I'm not sure about the other four. I know of two NYC WASP prep school guys. They came from different prep schools.</p>
<p>pb2002. great post. Makes me want to go to Bowdoin even (or especially) as you defend Swat. Thanks</p>
<p>whitelily, why not just look up the actual Williams statistics rather than relying on what you "heard"? I mean, for example, the current frosh class is over ten percent each black, latino, and asian students, plus another 10 percent international students ... so nearly half the class is non-U.S.-white students. Usually if memory serves about half the students are public schools, half from private or parochial school ... given a good chunk of parochial school kids, again, less than half are from private schools, and only some of those are from the traditional "prep" schools ... they hardly form any sort of dominant clique on campus or anything like that. </p>
<p>Here is some basic info to get you started ...</p>
<p>williams = preppy w/ sports, isolated location</p>
<p>swat = nerdy with little sports, suburban</p>
<p>bowdoin = not as hard to get into as the other two, diverse, isolated location</p>
<p>Why would knowing a place accepts 18% vs 14% or whatever, or is number 1 vs. number 6 on some list help anyone decide which one is better? Clearly they are all hard to get into and are all fine institutions objectively speaking. And some get into more than one. Aside from celebrate, then whaddaya do?</p>
<p>jbuehler's post is completely wrong about Bowdoin</p>
<p>First off Bowdoin is NOT isolated at all!
Brunswick, Maine, has like 20,000 people i think.
It is only about 20 minutes from Portland which is not a huge city by any means but it still is a modest sized city with a couple hundred thousand people. And on top of that, it is an hour and half from Boston. So i wouldnt say that is very isolated at all. </p>
<p>And in terms of not as hard to get into.....ummm.....the different between 18% and 14% is not very big at all. That difference is negligible. At the end of the day is barely any different.</p>
<p>i would agree, zfox, that bowdoin isn't isolated. it isn't. really. i mean, maybe to applicants from nyc it seems isolated, but to everyone else it should seem suburban. but jbuehler is right that bowdoin is easier to get into than swat or williams. and you yourself provide evidence to strengthen his (?) claim. he didn't say it's "far" easier. but it is, empircally, easier percentage wise, and numbers wise to get into bowdoin than swat or williams. it is also easier to get into dartmouth than princeton. it's a fair statement to make. i would say jbuehler is 1/2 right about bowdoin.</p>
<p>Except for the "easier to get into" claim is fairly meaningless if you look at the way admissions works this days. Once you get beyond a certain level of selectivity at the smaller LACs, the admissions offices are looking to assemble a class (diversity, talent, legacy, etc.) and, objectively speaking in terms of things like SAT scores and GPAs, there really is not much rhyme or reason to their admissions decisions. It is, for example, not uncommon to hear of a kid who is admitted to Williams but not Amherst (and vice versa) when the 2 schools are practically twins in selectivity and most other areas.</p>
<p>^ Very true, I was admitted to Williams and waitlisted at Amherst.
I even know of a girl who was admitted to Duke and waitlisted at Middlebury.
So you really never know.</p>
<p>Yeah, and I was accepted to Williams and Middlebury, but outright rejected from Amherst and Duke.</p>
<p>Haha, I was rejected from Duke too!</p>