<p>I know that our college counselor’s are on this site, so I will be careful - but they are terrific! Granted we have the luxury of having two full time college counselor’s as well as a very competent assistant for a private HS of about 350 students. ONE thing that I would have appreciated (and oh, this is so splitting hairs) is that after taking the PSAT in 10th grade (before it counted) I wish they had communicated to those kids that were in NM range so that we could have arranged for SAT tutoring before the 11th grade PSAT. Like I said, splitting hairs but it would’ve been nice. Now I know for sons 2 & 3, but not likely that they will need to worry about that.</p>
<p>I guess we are very lucky at our public school. We transferred our 2 youngest to the next town over where counselors are great; the older 2 went to our more local school and counseling was terrible. Our counselors now are very in-tune with various requirements and up-to-date on college admissions. My son was recently randomly called in (as a soph.) so she could check to make sure he was getting what he needs for a college he had mentioned to her. When my D graduated she was interested in a fairly specialized field (musical theater) and her counselor took it upon herself to research various programs. We also have a college and career center that is fantastic. They set up college visits, send out e-mails reminding parents of college activities in the area, etc. It is a fully staffed office open during school hours and the kids can stop in anytime to get info. We are in Ca. and have had severe budget cuts, but so far the counseling has been fantastic.</p>
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<p>Our GC offic asks all of the Jrs to complete a series of questions–and if done right–it will be several pages.
They also have a similar questionaire for the parents…and the same applies–If done thoughtfully --it will be several pages.
This is an advantage to your student and to you—because its possible they will lift language and use tidbits to help write supporting letters.</p>
<p>The point is that they haven’t gotten to know the kids at all over the last 3 yrs–and don’t know the families
–so they are gathering infor to help them write recs etc.
Some rec forms for admissions ask about the students’ parents (demeanor, affability types of questions too! ) I have read that on rec forms and thought about how Mrs Such n such knows how disappointed we have been in the past…and how will that play out!</p>
<p>As far as recs–it is expected that students DO WAIVE their rights to read them–
Colleges want recs to be authentic and AdComs will feel they can’t trust the recs written for students who demand access to them…
Basically your student will have to choose wisely AND hopefully has already done a good job over the last several years in cultivating healthy relationships with teachers and has also shown good work ethic, good character etc etc…</p>
<p>As fas as admit letters-- Frankly all they are doing is collecting admits–meaning for the high school profile they count how many kids are admitted somewhere and how many attend each of those individual universities… like School ABC 4 admitted 2 attending…
and
if your school uses Naviance–they need the admit, deferred, waitlisted or denied status to update the data.
That’s how they use the data …to help match scores and GPA etc …it’s used to see what profile is or is not successful at admissions and helps them find “matches” for your student based on families who submitted that info in years passed.</p>
<p>You may also be asked to sign something that allows the GCs to send the transcripts etc to colleges asking for them. This helps speed up paperwork–as opposed to filling out a separate form for each university each student applies to during the busy admission season…</p>
<p>Hope this all helps.</p>
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<p>We have some teachers at our hs who will not write a rec unless the student agrees to waive their right to see it. Frees the teachers up to be completely honest.</p>
<p>Frankly, if I worked in admissions, I’m not sure I’d trust any LOR where the student hadn’t waived the right to see it. I’d figure the writer was at least as worried about pleasing the student/parent as they were about being honest with me.</p>
<p>I agree with waiving the right. We all know what’s happened lately with job recommendations - practically useless nowadays, because of fear someone will be offended. And interviews are rapidly becoming obsolete, which is a shame. Many schools hardly want rec’s any more, because of fear they’re unreliable. I’d like to see them be significant, and helpful, parts of the application, even if the kid/parents might be miffed. I know we could get burned, but I’d take the chance for accuracy and making sure there’s a good fit.</p>
<p>Our GCs have the teachers send the recs to them, then the GC’s make copies and send them with each application/transcript/etc. The GC reads them over, and if they’re not good they either talk to the teacher (ie you need to expand on this) or suggest to the student that they find a different teacher to write one. So students can be pretty sure that a bad - or even so/so - rec won’t go out, even if they don’t see it themselves.</p>
<p>We’re having a parent-senior assembly next week and my fingers are crossed that they will give the kids some milestones. At this point, as an above poster said, I have enough info from outside sources (cc, NYT, etc) that I know we are on track. I also know that other kids are just starting the process and will really need to start moving.</p>
<p>LakeWashington,</p>
<p>As others have said, many schools require students to waive the right to see LORs. As a teacher, I won’t do one unless the student has waived the right. On the other hand, I won’t tell a student I’ll do a LOR if it won’t be positive.</p>
<p>I do agree with you, though, that requiring the admissions letter to be sent to the school is too much. I could see asking for them and if the student voluntarily gives a copy, OK.</p>
<p>I never waived my rights to see the LORs but the trend is different today. Back then, I would have felt bad about waiving a right, recently aquired, that so many people had fought for. I even had one professor tell me that he wouldn’t have written a letter for someone who had waived their rights under the FOI act. Bad hair and fashion sure, but the seventies were better in other ways! </p>
<p>Laflum, your school strikes a good balance.</p>
<p>I think one’s opinion of the guidance department varies with how informed the family is. Just sent my oldest to college, in a major that required auditions as well as overall scholastic acceptance. When I started that process (probably because I was so overwhelmed and under-educated) I thought guidance helped us very little.</p>
<p>As another poster said, I educated myself…through other parents, through this website, through hiring a helper for auditions, through books on financial aid and college admissions. I don’t think there is a 10-minute parent meeting that can by-pass this necessary education of oneself.</p>
<p>And now, since I have recently been hired in the guidance department myself (as an assistant, not as a counselor) I see how hard they work (agreed…with so much more than just college stuff), and I see alot of parents and students “drifting along” choosing the state school becuz it’s easy and complaining about guidance. I agree…benchmarks are good, but the process is complicated…parents and students must educate themselves for the most part and then use guidance as a TOOL. Not a hand-holder.</p>
<p>So, I guess my opinion has changed. Now I appreciate the promptness and efficiency with which transcripts, recommendations and such were handled when I needed it. As well as practical advice when I asked. At our h/s we do our best to keep scholarship info updated and invite colleges to visit and educate students…horse to water and all that.</p>
<p>Like I said…I think your opinion varies depending on your perspective.</p>
<p>I am a student but I saw this. My college counselor is good for most aspects but is a little slow in sending out transcripts (Bama transcript still hasn’t been sent 3.5 weeks just the transcript…). However he can write stellar recommendation i hope as he is my school counselor also. On another note the other 2 college counselors aren’t the greatest I have heard from my friends as they were a bit unknowledgable of local LACS.</p>
<p>Very valid points, fogfog and lafalum. I see that I am swimming against the tide regarding the waiver option. But I must say that I would expect the teacher whom is not comfortable enough to write a fully positive recommendation should find a polite reason to declince the student’s request. I know, perhaps easier said that done, given how complaints of “insensitivity” is bantied about in every fashion in America today. Like someone else said, the key is for the student to choose the right teacher [source] of the recommendation.</p>
<p>I teach at my son’s school, and I, just like all the kids and rest of our staff, adore our director of guidance. He’s great with the kids. He knows everything about our in-state schools. He gives kids a realistic opinion about their chances of getting in here or there. He maintains his page on the website and lists any scholarships he might hear about. He writes great recommendations. He brings in financial aid directors to talk to parents and kids about money. </p>
<p>BTW, he is overworked and underpaid. He handles testing. He is the administrator on duty when the admins are out of the building. He sits on various leadership teams.</p>
<p>Just a wonderful guy.</p>
<p>D1 went to a private school where ther was one counselor for every 30 kids, so you would expect her counselor to know her students well and be very accessible. She was all of that, but what made her special was she was a really advocate for D1. As you could all imagine, sometimes parents objectives may not always be aligned with a kid’s objectives. I just remember whenever I spoke with her, she would always say, “Le me speak with OldfortD1, let’s see what she thinks.”. We learned to trust her because she had D1’s best of interest at heart. </p>
<p>That was my brag of D1’s GC</p>
<p>Our son’s gc was fabulous. Not only was he a US Olympic coach but those talents gave him great knowledge and inroads to colleges across the country. He also established a Guidance Office system which streamlined the college app process to the nth degree. Basically once students gave a copy of their app to the office all other info like teacher recs, transcripts, hs profiles, etc were mailed out in 2 days if a sase was provided. This was a public hs btw.</p>
<p>We are very, very luck to have a wonderful GC. We are at a large public (3,000 due to overcrowding). The students are assigned alpha order so they stay with their GC all four years. The GC can develop a relationship with the student, and the family if there is more than one student. This may be a matter of ‘fit’, like a good university.</p>
<p>We have come to respect her and have a good rapport with her. We contact her by email and she is wonderful at prioritizing, getting back with us quickly on important things, within 48hrs on things that can wait…even during heavy traffic times. She has even responded to two emails we have sent over the summer during our 6 years with her. She has been able to respond to, and meet the vastly different needs of our two older children, including a sudden (and major) medical accommodation. Our younger student has started this year and we are crossing our fingers that we can have her just four more years.</p>
<p>We have needed very little guidance in the way of which colleges would be appropriate for our students. We were able to handle that on our own. Our school does not offer (or I am not aware of) services mentioned in the OP such as bus trips to tour schools, etc. We may need assistance with our younger student. That’s three years away, who knows? I do have confidence that she will be helpful in guiding us.</p>
<p>We did have the ‘option’ to fill out a packet of information about our student (several pages for our student, and a couple for the parents) prior to her LOR’s. This was our choice. We did decide to take the opportunity to pass on information regarding activities that they were involved in out of school she may not be aware of. It was not mandatory. She may not use the information, however it may give her a greater perspective of our student as a whole when writing that letter. Our student opted to waive his right to see his LORs. He was given no advice from his GC regarding this. I’m sure if he asked she would have helped him. We gave him our opinion for several different reasons. It was his choice. I understand why others would make the decision not to complete these forms, or waive their students right to see the LOR’s. That is certainly their choice. I was just sharing our students decision.</p>
<p>I appreciate and respect others experiences. We consider ourselves very grateful that the time and attention given to our students is appropriate to their needs. I do not doubt that others have valid frustrations. It has not been our experience.</p>
<p>Another frustrating thing is the guidance director’s insistence on paper forms. The kids do their part online and all the recs and forms from teachers and the school must be done on paper. It’s so frustrating when forms are missing. This director seems about 20 years behind the times. When mentioning the common app she gives the impression only a few schools are using it. She spends far more time on telling the kids to make sure the application is neat, not folded, no stray marks or staples.</p>
<p>“I don’t think there is a 10-minute parent meeting that can by-pass this necessary education of oneself.”</p>
<p>Ten minute parent meeting? How about a zero-minute parent meeting? When I found out no parent meeting was planned I went to see the GC. Following introductions, my first question was “What books would you recommend for D2’s college search.” She said she didn’t have a recommendation. So I asked “Well what books do you keep here for students to use?” She responded that there weren’t any books … that she didn’t believe in them! (Yeah I know, it sounds like I’m just making this up … except that I’m not.)</p>
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<p>YES. This bugs me too. Time to come into the year 2010. There is absolutely no reason to do it any other way.</p>
<p>First parent meeting about colleges was in spring of junior year – AFTER spring break. Good thing we’d already toured about 16-18 colleges at that point. When did they expect kids to do it? Oh well, they apparently don’t actually expect anyone to fly, do they? All the colleges you could ever possibly want are within 3 hours drive time. (/sarcasm)</p>
<p>Then, another meeting around back-to-school time. One sweet lady raised her hand and said, “What’s early decision?” Great, guys – how fabulous to tell people about the early decision option in September of the kid’s senior year. Why this whole process doesn’t start at the beginning of junior year is beyond me. </p>
<p>And this is nitty, but since we’re being nitty here – the room in which they use for these presentations has a bunch of school pennants hanging down for color. OK, I get the Big 10 schools, since we’re in Big 10 territory and many kids will (happily) go off to U of I. And I get all the nearby directional schools in our state since a lot of kids will wind up there. But they couldn’t have gone off the beaten path? You couldn’t have stuck up an Oberlin or a Carleton or a Grinnell? Or an Ivy school, or Stanford, or UC Berkeley? Or a Whitman or a Reed or a Rice? Heaven forbid there’s anything that expands anyone’s horizons. It’s just a real pet peeve of mine. Of course, it’s coming back to bite me in the butt as despite our dragging our kids all over the country, one of them wants to apply ED to a school in our backyard. Argh!!</p>
<p>“First … meeting about colleges was in spring of junior year – AFTER spring break.”</p>
<p>I get it … really I do. The school assigns by class (9th, 10th, etc.) so the GC has in-depth knowledge of what the students in that class need. So I understand why the first meeting is held really late in Junior year … because the 11th grade GC won’t be involved with college matters. And this works great in our local public HS … because the most ambitious students, the top 25% or so, have been driven off to local PRIVATE schools.</p>
<p>Still, it’s really irritating when the Guidance Office home page lists Naviance … but you need a GC-provided password to access it … and the password is handed out at the end of Junior year.</p>