<p>I just PM'ed you, hopefulbob</p>
<p>If you didn't receive it, please advise</p>
<p>twinmom, I'm sure you want to be helpful to point up all the good qualities of Skidmore, but your comment here was totally unfounded:</p>
<p>'Brandeis has been less than generous with their Jewish students over the past couple of years. Skidmore is happy to have you join their community." </p>
<p>We all can point to anecdotes of disappointed Jewish applicants to Brandeis, whether at the level of admissions or financial aid. But the only piece of public data is that 52% of students there are Jewish (which means that 48% aren't). I mention that because it's also frequently said that Brandeis is "all Jewish" which isn't true, either. </p>
<p>But Brandeis isn't a Hebrew Day School obligated to admit or fund all Jewish student applicants. It's a university of fine stature, founded because qualified Jews were denied admission to the Ivy League because of limiting quotas there against Jews. That's an important piece of history, but it's not an admissions or finaid guarantee. </p>
<p>I'm asking for care with sensitive statements such as these, even as I recognize how much good you are doing to commend Skidmore to him.</p>
<p>Paying3Tuitions: I absolutely agree with you that Brandeis is not obligated to admit or fund anyone. My comment was not meant to be offensive, and I apologize if it was written in a way that it was interpreted that way by you or anyone else.</p>
<p>Last year, there were several posts by qualified Jewish admitees who were disappointed with the aid (merit and in some instances financial) which Brandeis offered them. On the flip side, some minority students were astounded by the generous offers they received. </p>
<p>To its credit, Brandeis is looking to diversify ... and thus, has the perogative to award money as it sees fit. </p>
<p>These posts from last year reference what I was referring to ...</p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=164157%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=164157</a> (Post #11)</p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=143986%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=143986</a> (Posts 18, 39, 40)</p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=143851%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=143851</a> (Posts # 1, 12)</p>
<p>Make no mistake. I am delighted that Brandeis if generous with students from all types of backgrounds. It has just appeared that they have been less likely (in many cases, not all) to award smiliar packages to Jewish applicants.</p>
<p>My comment "Skidmore is happy to have you join their community," had nothing to do with the Brandeis comment. I should have put it in a separate paragraph!</p>
<p>Brandeis is a fine institution which was founded on wonderful principles and continues to live by them.</p>
<p>Thanks, twinmom for your thoughtful response! I read the thread-links completely. You're correct that it seems there's a trend towards attracting diverse applicants. Brandeis, like other schools, may be using some of its merit money in that direction to "manage enrolment" and attract diverse ethnicities and backgrounds to its campus. This could even come at the expense (no pun) of Jewish enrolment, since there's an end to their annual money somewhere. It's just logical. It occurs to me that some Jewish families are prospering at home, which is great. If someday more of us can be like the uppercrust WASP families that can afford to write out a full tuition check painlessly, well then, isn't America a great country after all? So, more to go around for other groups and Jews without enough money.</p>
<p>I jumped in protectively (reactively? if so, i'm sorry twinmom) of hopefulbob's nerves, because he's been through a LOT in his journey. </p>
<p>I didn't want him to lose his nerve to try his best on his own behalf with a hint of discouragement at that moment. </p>
<p>A case of what's true statistically might not be true for the sole individual case. </p>
<p>I appreciate your kind tone, twinsmom. </p>
<p>BTW, I'm in awe of twins' parents at admissions years! Do you put all those papers into a double-stroller, or what? :)</p>
<p>No, the double stroller is long gone, replaced by two filing crates, which are gone now too! Now it's just two tuition bills... (and two happy kids, which is what counts.)</p>
<p>Applying to colleges is a very stressful time, and Bob has indeed had his share of stress. I know that we all wish him the best on his journey. There's no doubt that he'll land on his feet wherever he winds up. :)</p>
<p>They gave me $5,000. Now my parents don't care. They've been through a lot, but I don't see how they can pass on this kind of opportunity. It's like they think they need to win the argument. I most of their reasons not to let me go, so now they refuse to talk to me about it. I know it's still expensive - it's $15,000 more per year than Skidmore. But now they say it's not the money. They say they don't like Brandeis. They just want to be in control, so they can't let me have what I want. But it's about four years of my life..not theirs. They're trying to blame everything on me..they say its my fault I can't go to Brandeis. They say I should have gotten in (I have to remind them that I did) and should have gotten a better scholarship. They say they want the best for me but they are using their own definition of best.</p>
<p>I've been trying to get myself to like Skidmore, but I haven't really found much to get excited about (and nothing beats Jimmy Carter). I feel like the decision was forced on me, that I had no say in it. One more thing..does anyone know if Brandeis accepts Skidmore credits? An answer to that might make me feel better. At one point, they claimed I could transfer if I really didn't like Skidmore.</p>
<p>At least I tried everything. I wouldn't have gotten this far without all of you, so thanks. Sorry for these rambling posts, but because you are parents, maybe you can understand mine?</p>
<p>hopefulbob:</p>
<p>I'm sorry things do not seem to be working out for you! I do believe that it would be easy to transfer from Skidmore to Brandeis. You will want to check the general education requirements at both, but it should be doable.<br>
Good luck!</p>
<p>Why not make a list of pros/cons for each school? Include classes and professors in your list (if you can, search for their publications).</p>
<p>It always amazes me why parents allow their child to apply to colleges that they will not let them attend.</p>
<p>Maybe the parents were hoping that Bob would qualify for merit aid at Brandeis. </p>
<p>I agree that the parents should have been more clear about finances from the outset. I have a feeling that this is really a financial issue even though the parents are saying otherwise -- that is, the parents simply are not willing to pay substantially more for Brandeis than for the schools that accept the tuition exchange program.</p>
<p>I suspect that Calmom is right. Perhaps the original criteria for letting Bob apply to Brandeis was that he could attend if he got substantial merit aid. </p>
<p>At any rate, I think Bob should look ahead and move on ... if a transfer is in the cards later on, so be it ... but it wouldn't be in his best interests to begin Skidmore assuming that it won't work out.</p>
<p>All along the parents were saying it's about the money, and then when he got close on the money, now they say it's not the money, they just don't like Brandeis.</p>
<p>Bob, you asked to explain your parents. Well, I wonder if your parents don't like brandeis b/c it's 52% Jewish. I know Jewish families who are squeamish about sending their Jewish kids to be around so many other Jewish kids. They're so accustomed to living in the minority that the thought of being in the majority blows their minds. I strongly disagree with them, but i know there are some who feel that way.</p>
<p>Given that the other fine LAC's around the nation are 25 and 30% Jewish, Brandeis isn't so very different, really. OUr bad luck being just 2% of the American population, and yet so wildly overrepresented on all these campuses. Sigh.</p>
<p>ANOTHER possibility Bob, is that sometimes parents are feeling so badly about the money that they hide it behind other explanations.</p>
<p>If it's not all signed, sealed and delivered, then you might ask them, "Can this not be my choice?"</p>
<p>p.s. Is the decision all done? Can you prevail on Brandeis to grant you a few more days to decide? I know they said "one day" but you've only had info about your increased finaid from them for a day or two. Ask for an extension to decide.
Im thinking that if the decision-line is still open (or can be reopened) and the Jewish presence is what's tripping up your parents' thinking, call your Rabbi as an emergency and ask for family counseling re: brandeis, even by a series of telephone calls. Rabbis respond to emergencies and understand all kinds of strange things as "emergencies." My H is one and yours qualifies as a mental health emergency of sorts; people call for much less than this. Yours is timely b/c of decision deadlines. Mention Brandeis as the focal point. Include in the counseling the issue of "whose decision this is." </p>
<p>If that's a fizzle, maybe you can just talk over with the Rabbi, or a professional counselor, how to re-adjust your energy to going off comfortably to Skidmore next year. How to bounce forward, in other words.
(I do not share Marite's optimism about how 'easy' it would be to transfer from Skidmore to Brandeis.)</p>
<p>Bob, I am so sorry. :(</p>
<p>Bob- I am sorry things didn't work out for you the way you had hoped.</p>
<p>In the grand scheme of things, there are kids who grow up in horribly disfunctional families with abusive or negelectful parents.... and you aren't one of them. There are kids who grow up in abject poverty and their basic needs can't be met... you aren't one of them. ETc.... you're smart enough to see where I'm going with this.</p>
<p>So the worst thing at this point that you can say about your parents is that they were unwilling to take on more financial risk than you had hoped in order to send you to Brandeis.... perhaps they're unduly cautious about what your brother's options might be; perhaps one of them knows that their job is unstable and have chosen not to upset you by sharing that with you; perhaps their retirement investments have taken a nose-dive, or their adjustable rate mortgage has ratcheted up... again, something they've chosen not to burden you with, but would explain why an extra 10K a year in tuition is something they just can't handle right now.</p>
<p>So, it's time to forgive them for disappointing you. You get to decide how excited you're going to be about being a Skidmore Freshman-- if you show up still pining away for Brandeis you will miss the chance at being happy at Skidmore. If you continue to be angry at your parents, you will miss the chance at your HS graduation to realize how lucky you are to have grown up in your family.... imperfect as it is. If you aren't able to look forward to what a lucky guy you are, you may end up with a chip on your shoulder that time and experience just can't dislodge.</p>
<p>So-- admit to yourself that Brandeis isn't perfect (nothing is) and that no doubt there are kids there right now who regret that they couldn't afford Tufts (no merit aid) so ended up at Brandeis with merit aid; or whose parents wouldn't let them leave the Northeast so they're in Waltham instead of Palo Alto, or who end up making compromises in order to get on with their lives. You are way too smart not to let go of this.</p>
<p>I agree with Blossom. The $5000 Brandeis offered DID NOT bring him close. If Bob had not gotten in to Brandeis, he would not be attending there anyway. Life is not perfect. Bob is very lucky to have the opportunity to go to a great private college. His parents did not insist on a state school (and I am the happy product of one, nothing wrong with that) but are willing to pay a lot of money for an excellent private school.</p>
<p>Bob says, "They've been through a lot, but I don't see how they can pass on this kind of opportunity." </p>
<p>I don't know what Bob's parents have been through, but as they say, there are three sides to every story.</p>
<p>I agree with both blossom and twinmom. Bob, assuming that you do go ahead with Skidmore, I hope that, over the summer, you can move beyond your disappointment over Brandeis(which, by the way, I understand; my D was also waitlisted by Brandeis and it was her dream school, as well) and approach Skidmore with a open mind and a positive outlook. For all you know, you could end up loving Skidmore and, if by the second half of the year, you're not happy there, you'll reconsider your options then. You do seem like a decent and very intelligent guy and, once again, I do wish you best wherever you go.:)</p>
<p>So its pretty much final. I'm going to Skidmore. I think it was still about the money. I guess I'll try to enjoy it. </p>
<p>paying3tuitions - why don't you share Marite's optimism about how easy it is to transfer to Brandeis from Skidmore? You were always optimistic. I was hoping that if things were really bad there I would still have Brandeis as an option since my parents would be much more understanding if I tried Skidmore and really didn't like it. </p>
<p>Thanks again for all the advice.</p>
<p>Oh, I am optimistic for your future, and didn't mean to phrase it so poorly and in haste. Many emails that night.
I just didn't want to say anything about college is ever "easy." Especially since I don;t know if Brandeis is harder to get into as a transfer; or how many transfers they take each year and from where, whether credits from Skidmore transfer well there...
I just wanted you to be careful since your hopes were batted around so much and not say something because I wished it was so.
But you know, I believe these two schools are academically comparable so perhaps Marite, who's very experienced too, knew that when she said it was an "easy" sideways move.
And of course we're all figuring you'll do great in your classes there at Skidmore, nobody ever doubted that. We figure you're an "A" student and will stay so...maybe high B's sometimes, okay.<br>
Now that you are going, you'll be able to display your best academic effort there at Skidmore. I know you'll give it your best.
And did you pick up from my other threads that my own S went to his "second choice" but fell in love with it once he was there. He wrote back to us in October of his freshman year, "If I'd known how happy I'd be here, it would have been my first choice all along."
He, too, was crushed not to even get into his First Choice, not ED or RD. But what happened was his Second Choice became his dream school, but only after he got there and began to enjoy and experience college life.
After October, you couldn't have pried him away from his Second...no FIRST choice now...with a crowbar!
In fact, one of his waitlists came good around August, as he was packing, but he let it go. They offered him some kind of "Spring Admit" and it would have meant he'd start at "second choice" and be there for a term, then move midyear to the waitlist school. He decided that was too much of a roller-coaster and would keep him from trying to get to know and like the school he was packing up for! So he told the waitlist caller, "No thanks."
One of the things he realized about the First Choice place that never ever took him was that it was also the first college he ever visited in his life. He says today (graduated now 2 years ago) that it's possible to fall in love with a school because you're really falling in love with College, in general, as compared to your high school. He thinks he might have done that, somewhat , with his old First Choice. Turns out, it's a common pitfall. My youngest S started doing the same thing and his big brother talked with him about it, before it got too far. (Also youngest S never got that "first choice" to take him...but now he's also super excited about his upcoming second choice next fall.)
ANYWAY, I'm glad you asked for clarification. I think you will really begin to notice the positives about Skidmore, since your next year's path is clear. My first hope for you is that you'll fall in LOVE with Skidmore and suprise yourself. This is much more likely to happen once you're there, than when you're comparing it. And these visits don't show you the real school life, anyway.
I'm so hopeful for you! (Now I"m "hopeful"). Because you sound like a great guy. I hope you get great roommates and start to make some friends,because that's a big help to having a good year there...whether it's the only year there for you, or the first of four.
And after that..well, you'll see what the future brings. Keep open the idea of
doing brilliantly at Skidmore so you can either transfer or (new thought now) go to Brandeis for graduate school!
You'll feel much much better if you let yourself like Skidmore. Don't hold back, let it flow and show your sunshine there.
All the best, keep posting too, we like hearing about you!!!
You could have it all, then, best of both worlds.</p>
<p>Hopefulbob:</p>
<p>I am optimistic about your chances of transfer because I think Skidmore is a good school. But I agree you need to give Skidmore a fair chance, you need to think of Skidmore as a place you will be happy to be at for four years instead of a transit lounge, so to speak, only tolerable because you are on your way to some more desirable destination. Only then will you be able to thrive. If you still hanker after Brandeis, you can apply for transfer in your second semester. But give Skidmore a chance to win you over.</p>
<p>Bob, my S was gung ho about two UCal schools that he wanted to apply to, Berkeley and Santa Cruz. I had to break the news to him last fall that there was no way we could take on the kind of debt we would have to for him to attend there, since he is an OOS student. He applied to Tulane, was admitted and went for a visit. He found out that the place intrigued him, and when they awarded him a large merit scholarship, plus honors program, he decided it might be the place for him.
Last fall, he was angry at me for not allowing him to consider Cal (although I did let him apply to Berkeley; I figured there was a chance he might get admitted and get merit aid). Right now, he is a very happy kid, with one of the largest merit scholarships at a college of anyone in his graduating class, plus finding out more and more the things aboutTulane that make it a great choice for him. Turns out he was not accepted at Berkeley after all, so it would have been a moot point.
p.s. he was also waitlisted at Brandeis, it was a very selective year all around.</p>