<p>"Still, I don't think enough is mentioned about the emotional consequences of deferral or rejection in the life of a high school senior"</p>
<p>Deferrals or rejections are unfortunate, but everyone will have to deal with disappointment in their lives. High school is a good time to learn about this because one's still at home, still young enough to have plenty of options. It's not as if a college rejection ruins one's life. Those kind of disappointments are minor compared with the disappointments and losses that everyone has to cope with if they live a normal lifespan.</p>
<p>And, the students who apply RD also may get waitlisted or rejected.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, something like 60% of students get accepted to their first choice school.</p>
<p>Also, and again this is only personal experience, most of the students with whom I am familiar, did not substantively change their applications after their deferral or rejection. Several excellent candidates ended up at Berkeley, after applying EA to Stanford, or at Rice, Wash U St. Louis or Northwestern, after deferrals at Brown, just as examples.</p>
<p>I view all these schools as comparable, but when a student decides that one school is a clear favorite (which is always the advice in these ED threads) and then is rejected or deferred, it has a significant emotional impact. </p>
<p>Put another way, as a mature adult, how many times am I asked to put all my wishes for the next four years in one basket only to then be told, sorry, you can't have those wishes, better luck next time?!</p>
<p>It didn't have stats on ED admissions. Those stats would vary by school.</p>
<p>I think I used something like "first choice college" and "admitted" or "accepted". I think the article that I found was from a newspaper in Pennsylvania.</p>
<p>Okay, I've googled for almost half an hour without results. In addition, I've checked Michelle Hernandez consulting site which is a pretty good source for stats of elite schools, especially regarding ED/EA vs. RD.</p>
<p>Certainly for elite schools, whose ED rate is less than 30%, the 60% first choice number doesn't compute, but it's hard to decipher because many are deferred, and the number who are ultimately rejected is hard to track. This is my point. </p>
<p>Stanford and Yale, with SCEA are easier. For 2011 class, Stanford accepted 16% and Yale 19%. Of course maybe the students they deferred and rejected decided Stanford or Yale really wasn’t their first choice, and that’s where the 60% figure comes from.</p>
<p>Of course ED benefits the schools, or they wouldn't do it. Of course they set the rules; it's their game. But to me, if you don't like the system, the answer is not to see how you can get out of it. The answer is don't play. Apply EA or RD, and there's no agreement to worry about.</p>
<p>And I agree with the other lawyers on the boards that the ED contract may not be legally enforceable, but I take my word very seriously - if I or my child has agreed to something then unless it is impossible, I or she will do what was agreed.</p>
<p>I don't think anyone in this thread that has suggested that because ED is not a legally binding contract it is appropriate for a student who is accepted ED to refuse to honor the commitment simply because the student no longer wants to. Impossibility, however, is an unrealistic standard that could often lead to a grossly unfair result or undue hardship. There are circumstances that could be compelling and necessitous but which do not rise to the level of impossibility. There are many situations that could involve material changes in circumstances (including events at the school) that result in the destruction of the basis for the "social contract" of the ED relationship with that school. The question for me is whether the student has acted in good faith and has a material and substantial reason of a compelling nature, due to events outside of the control of the student, for abandoning the ED relationship</p>
<p>I Googled for less than 5 minutes and found this story from Jan. of this year.</p>
<p>NORMAL, Ill. (U-WIRE) - An annual national survey conducted by the University of California at Los Angeles reveals smaller percentages of college freshmen are attending their first choice schools, and even those accepted to their first choice are instead settling for their second or third choices.</p>
<p>The survey that yielded these results is The Freshman Survey, which has been administered by the Cooperative Institutional Research Program at UCLA for the last 40 years.</p>
<p>This year 271,441 freshmen at 393 colleges across the nation were involved in the survey. While students were asked a variety of questions about high school life and college decisions, a major point of interest revealed by the survey results dealt with deciding factors that determine what school a student chooses to attend.</p>
<p>First choice school may not necessarily be a prestige school, so that stat is a bit skewed. A lot of kids included in that stat include kids going to a local state school. The percentage of kids who are accepted and attend their first choice "prestige" school...i.e. highly selective admissions like top 25, is a much smaller percentage. And for some kids their first choice is also a "reach" school, which they know they may not get into. So that stat is a bit broad in my opinion.</p>
<p>My daughter did not get into her first choice school and is going to her second choice, a "match" school.</p>
<p>I also agree with CardinalAlum's points. Well taken. Further I would suggest that colleges require kids to disclose ALL the schools they have applied to and to rank them in order of interest on the application. That would diminish the ridiculous fishing expeditions and ego trips that go on....kids that apply to 10 schools and have almost no interest in attending 8 of them...but use the acceptance letters as ego trips. The common application has made things WORSE in my view.</p>
<p>There are more kids applying to colleges than ever before, but also more kids applying to too many colleges.</p>
<p>The fact is, that a good many second and third tier schools offer a superb education that matches the quality of the Ivy League schools or top LAC's, and the only thing that makes them "prestigious" is the admissions games...hard to get in.</p>
<p>kk19131, you raise good points about the legality of the shared information and I had not thought of that. We are just tossing around concepts and thoughts about how it could be better policed. True, if someone cheats on the ED, they may cheat on exams. That was essentially my first post....the immoral aspect of it all.</p>
<p>A high school principal once told me that MOST cheaters are kids at the top of the class....the competitive spirit overcomes them.</p>
<p>But then again, I would not be inclined to hire an Ivy League kid anyway....</p>
<p>Northstar--Thanks for the info and link. Clearly you're a quick and fruitful "googler."</p>
<p>friedorkra--the comment from the high school principal "MOST cheaters are kids at the top of the class" is similar to info I've heard from my kids and their friends regarding our local high school....really too bad. Although I am in no way condoning cheating among top students (or any students), I think this represents a predictable, behavioral response to a situation in which there are multiple competitors for a limited supply of resources. </p>
<p>In fact, as you point out, this is not really the case. Numerous CC posters state that the undergraduate experience is outstanding at many schools outside the elites. Once more parents and students begin to think outside the HYPSM/Ivy box, they will realize that the supply of outstanding undergraduate institutions is bigger than they think. Then the calculus of ED admissions will change.</p>
<p>"60% of Students get to their first choice School"</p>
<p>Most students dont even apply to a elite school, they apply to community college etc. So thats your 60%. I heard somewhere it was as high as even 80%. Well - 80th percentile is still barely a 600~ on the SAT sections</p>
<p>Yes, I'm sure that it's clear that 60% of students whose first choice is schools like HPYS do NOT get into their first choice colleges. If their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th choice colleges are HPYS, they also don't get into those.</p>
<p>However, despite the impression that one can get from CC, the students dreaming of HPYS admits are a very small proportion of students applying to college. Most students' first choice is probably a public institution that they know they'll gain acceptance to based on their stats.</p>
<p>Question: If the general consensus that schools DO share ED lists, then why don't they share RD lists? Isn't that more important, considering that you have people accepting multiple offers and thereby hurting the chances of waitlisted applicants in two or even three colleges?</p>
<p>Students' accepting multiple schools RD is a recent phenomenon, and violates what students agree to when they accept a colllege RD. It's posible that schools may start sharing RD lists to stop students from accepting multiple offers.</p>