breaking early decision

<p>The notion that colleges do not pay attention to a BINDING Early Decision, is an uneducated notion. When you complete that application, it is like putting your name on a lease. Your word is your bond, and this is no exception. It makes perfect sense though. Why would you apply to a school that practices early decision if you did not really want to go there? When looking at schools, you need to be aware of early decision versus early action. There is a difference. Most times early decision is binding, and shouldn't be taken lightly. Early action on the other hand tends to be non binding, therefore giving you more leadway. </p>

<p>I have heard of cases in which students were "released" from a binding agreement based on uncontrollable circumstances, or insufficient financial aid.</p>

<p>"Question: If the general consensus that schools DO share ED lists"</p>

<p>-And still, all I want is proof.... People keep saying things like "it just makes sense" or "they have to share lists", yet nobody can provide any ACTUAL proof that such a list (or lists) exists. If just believing in something is good enough to serve as proof and fact in today's society, then we're heading down a troubled road..... </p>

<p>"Thruthiness"</p>

<p>Google is your friend. A one-minute Google found this on the Moravian College site. Presumably if Moravian College shares lists, so do other colleges.</p>

<p>"Q. How would you know if I apply early decision at more than one?</p>

<p>A. Colleges share lists of students who have been accepted under the Early Decision plan. If we find a student has been accepted under the ED plan at another college, we will rescind our offer. And, the other colleges will typically follow suit. We take very seriously the spirit of the ED plan, and students need to do that as well. "<a href="http://www.moravian.edu/admission/faqs/earlyDecision.htm"&gt;http://www.moravian.edu/admission/faqs/earlyDecision.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>From fastweb.com's site:
"It is inadvisable to try to beat the system by applying for early admission at more than one school. Top schools often share lists of early applicants. If your student's name appears on more than one list, he may be barred from all his top-pick schools. "</p>

<p>From Questbridge's site:
"• ED agreements require that students accept the admissions offer of a college if granted admission. Students must attend that college if admitted. - While there is no official penalty for breaking an Early Decision commitment, doing so is a violation of a contract. In addition, college admissions offices often share information about students who have violated their Early Decision agreements. This means that if you break your Early Decision commitment to college A to apply via regular decision to college B, then college B may reject your application (or withdraw your admission offer if one has been made). "</p>

<p>Yet another:
""When I have students coming in and saying to me, 'I don't know where I'm going, but I'm definitely applying early,' that's the wrong approach," insists Judith Berg, president of the Independent Educational Consultants Association. "Only apply early after, thinking about it carefully and visiting a number of campuses."</p>

<p>When you apply early, you're putting your reputation on the line, along with those of your parents and your guidance counselor. Each of you must sign a contract vowing that you will attend the school if you're accepted, and colleges don't take it lightly when you break that commitment.</p>

<p>"A few years ago we admitted a student through our regular pool who--it turned out--had applied early decision to another college," recalls Thyra Briggs, dean of admission at Sarah Lawrence. But when the student told the other school she wouldn't be attending because she'd been admitted to Sarah Lawrence, both colleges called the student's guidance counselor to express their displeasure and--even worse--both colleges rescinded their offers of admission.</p>

<p>"Students need to understand that this agreement is very serious," says Briggs.</p>

<p><a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTR/is_1_21/ai_78541362%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTR/is_1_21/ai_78541362&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>From Northwestern's site. Vassar's ED app has a similar statement.</p>

<p>"Early Decision ApplicantsI have read and understand the conditions of the Early Decision option. By signing below, I indicate that Northwestern is my first-choicecollege and the only college to which I have applied under an early decision plan. If offered admission, I will accept Northwestern’s offer, immediately withdraw all other applications, and initiate no new applications. If these conditions are not met, I understand thatNorthwestern may withdraw my offer of admission at any time. I also acknowledge that, if admitted under the Early Decision option,Northwestern may share my name and my Early Decision agreement with other institutions...."</p>

<p>"Presumably if Moravian College shares lists, so do other colleges."</p>

<p>-Ok. I'll go so far as saying that this school shares lists, but with whom? Does Moravian College share its list with Columbia? Penn? Wash U? Harvard? Could, or even should it be extrapolated that ALL ED schools share lists, which is, for me, at the heart of the matter? That is, it has often been claimed that "ED schools share lists" as if ALL schools share ALL their ED applicants names'.</p>

<p>-Further, I was much more concerned with elite colleges and the thousands of early applicants they get. The Ivy League alone gets 23,000 early applicants, and I want to know how this list could be supervised, maintained, and checked by so many different admissions counselors at 8 different universities. Further, I want to know if the member schools even use such a list.</p>

<p>"I also acknowledge that, if admitted under the Early Decision option, Northwestern may share my name and my Early Decision agreement with other institutions...."</p>

<p>I am all too familiar with this. I did, after all, apply ED to Northwestern, and had to agree to that very statement...... I also want to note that many schools' ED signature sheets don't even include such a statement..... I'm not really arguing with the validity of this statement; I believe schools CAN share information; the problem I have with this is that it doesn't really tell anything about any 'lists' - at least not the kind that have been suggested herein. I believe it's intentionally vague to scare students into believing that there is indeed a massive list of early applicant shared by all schools - it's a great tool to get people to uphold ED agreements. </p>

<p>Also, would schools not in addition have to share lists of their RD students if they REALLY want to enforce ED admissions? I mean, just sharing ED lists wouldn't get the desired outcome as all an applicant would have to do is apply ED to just one school and not withdraw his RD applications from others - there would be no way for schools to determine if a student has already made a prior commitment to attend an ED school, unless they could see both the ED and RD lists. That opens up a whole new can of practical worms for me, and further calls into question the feasibility of such 'lists' designed to enforce ED.</p>

<p>Further, I never really doubted the POSSIBILITY of a list; I much more doubted (and indeed still doubt) the ACTUALITY of using such a list, and the ramifications that go along with so many different institutions sharing so many different students' names at the same time.</p>

<p>"Also, would schools not in addition have to share lists of their RD students if they REALLY want to enforce ED admissions?"</p>

<p>Due to sophisticated marketing, colleges have a good idea now of what colleges are their competition. Presumably ED colleges have a good idea of what colleges students may select over them. Consequently, ED colleges could send the lists of their accepted students to colleges that students typically accept instead of going to the ED institution (whether or not those students applied ED). This would be a relatively short list of schools.</p>

<p>The more competitive colleges presumably wouldn't accept students listed as ED admits because the more competitive colleges wouldn't want to accept students who don't believe in keeping their word.</p>

<p>It's not as if an ED college would have to share their lists with all colleges in the country, just the colleges that it most competes with. For instance, Cornell might share its ED list with HPY and similar schools because students who are accepted to HPY are likely to turn down Cornell for those more competitive schools. Cornell wouldn't bother sharing its list with Monrovia College, for example, because it's not likely Cornell loses many if any students to Monrovia.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, Monrovia College probably sends its ED list to similar colleges that it competes with. I assume that they'd be Christian colleges that are more competitive, not places like Duke or Washington U..</p>

<p>i'm not sure why there is still an arguement here... it seems like there's plenty of evidence that colleges can share lists and agreement that breaking early decision agreements by applying to other colleges is a very bad choice that will get you recinded.</p>

<p>I'm not arguing; I just want as much of the 'truth' about the subject to be discussed as possible. After all, this website is about helping people gain a better understanding of college admissions.</p>

<p>I keep thinking that this thread is staying alive because some posters are trying to figure out the odds of getting away with applying ED and then going elsewhere if they get a more desireable acceptance.</p>

<p>Colleges don't have to share their RD lists to enforce the ED agreement. All you need is the ED list - then enter your own RD applicants or accepted students and compare them against the ED list. If the name appears on the ED, the computer spits it out. It doesn't matter how many RD lists the student appears on.</p>

<p>And kk, I don't think you'll ever get absolute "proof" that schools do this - we can only go by what they say, just as we can only trust that they consider ACT and SAT the same, and they care about the difficulty of the curriculum you take. And since, as noted in this thread, there are easy ways for them to do what they say they do, there's no reason to doubt their statements. You (the global "you") want to try to game the system, go ahead. You may get away with it. Just be aware that you also may not. If it's a risk you want to take, it's OK with me.</p>

<p>"Colleges don't have to share their RD lists to enforce the ED agreement. All you need is the ED list - then enter your own RD applicants or accepted students and compare them against the ED list. If the name appears on the ED, the computer spits it out. It doesn't matter how many RD lists the student appears on."</p>

<p>-It would seem to me that either the colleges would have to create two different lists – those who applied ED and those who were accepted – and send them to other schools, or they would have to have a way of constantly updating the first list they sent. The list of people who apply ED is completely different from the list of who is accepted – one list would have to be used for seeing if a student applied to more than one school ED, and the other would need to be used to see if a student has already been accepted ED. Coming from a person who has spent a great deal of time in an admissions office at an ED school, and has seen three different admissions cycles play out, I know that this just isn’t happening – not at the absurd levels that people here are asserting. </p>

<p>"You (the global "you") want to try to game the system, go ahead."</p>

<p>-Very few try to 'game' the system. I've said many times that I think people should uphold things they agree to do. But if situations change, and a student has acted in good faith, I also believe he should be able to reject an offer of admission under ED without fear that a college will attempt maliciously to sabotage his attending another school. If it is 'unethical' for a student not to uphold an ED agreement, then it is just as 'unethical' to me for a college to try to get said student rejected or rescinded from other schools if he acted in good faith – gaming the system is not a one-way street; both students and colleges can (and probably do) do it.</p>

<p>"Colleges can and most likely will only 'tell' other ED schools. However, I don't think this is actually widely practiced. I'm sure admission counselors and their staffs have better things to do than being vindictive toward students who don't uphold their ED agreements."</p>

<p>I seriously doubt this. When I got into one university ED I didn't notify the other University that I wasn't going until mid-April. Guess what? My admission wasn't rescinded. I doubt they actually check up on each other.</p>

<p>"I've said many times that I think people should uphold things they agree to do. But if situations change, and a student has acted in good faith, I also believe he should be able to reject an offer of admission under ED without fear that a college will attempt maliciously to sabotage his attending another school."</p>

<p>All ED schools are very clear that they will release students from ED if there are financial reasons (The parents' not wanting to pay what the college says is their share is not considered "financial reasons' nor is wanting to turn down need based aid that requires parental pay, loans, work study in order to accept a full ride from another college) or reasons such as some kind of emergency.</p>

<p>A student's changing their mind, however, isn't considered an emergency. A student's wishing to live at home and commute to a college because their parent was just diagnosed with a serious illness is considered an emergency.</p>

<p>“All ED schools are very clear that they will release students from ED if there are financial reasons (The parents' not wanting to pay what the college says is their share is not considered "financial reasons' nor is wanting to turn down need based aid that requires parental pay, loans, work study in order to accept a full ride from another college) or reasons such as some kind of emergency.”</p>

<p>Here is where I just flat out disagree. The clause says that a student can be released if he doesn’t get “adequate” financial aid. A system that allows a college to be both the decider and distributor of “adequate” aid makes no sense. From that logic, a college can give a very poor student $0 and he’d be forced to come up with $50,000 out of thin air – or risk having the school sabotage his chance at another, more generous one. Tell me, if it is not left up to the student's family to decide, then why does the financial aid clause even exist? Shouldn't it say something more along the lines of a student can be released from an ED agreement "only if the college says so"? </p>

<p>For an extreme hypothetical: a school could be in its final year of having ED, and could accept a large number of its ED applicants and offer ALL of them $0 in financial aid. Would the students now have to attend the school simply because the school says so? Surely if the college can decide what’s “adequate” then it doesn’t have to give anyone money. </p>

<p>For my own little anecdote….. When I applied ED to my school, I got a financial aid package that my family and I just didn’t like, and I told the school that I wouldn’t be withdrawing my other applications and wanted more money. Not only did I allow my other applications to be reviewed, but I also remained in talks with the financial aid office at my ED school and got more money. I was fully prepared to reject flat out the offer of the ED school if I didn’t get more money, and I strongly doubt that it was going to hunt down my other applications and try to get me rejected if I did. Yep, instead of being malicious, the school worked with my family and we reached an agreement – all the while I could have easily gone elsewhere. If anything, I’d bet that elite colleges are more understanding and less vindictive than people here make them seem. </p>

<p>“A student's changing their mind, however, isn't considered an emergency. A student's wishing to live at home and commute to a college because their parent was just diagnosed with a serious illness is considered an emergency.”</p>

<p>Oh wow. So now a school can also decide what constitutes an ‘emergency’ too?</p>

<p>"Here is where I just flat out disagree. The clause says that a student can be released if he doesn’t get “adequate” financial aid. A system that allows a college to be both the decider and distributor of “adequate” aid makes no sense. From that logic, a college can give a very poor student $0 and he’d be forced to come up with $50,000 out of thin air – or risk having the school sabotage his chance at another, more generous one. That just doesn’t make sense."</p>

<p>Colleges all use a formula to determine the proportion of each students' financial need they meet. The colleges have to report this information to, I think, the federal government or some other agency. The formula is based on things like the FAFSA.</p>

<p>When colleges say that they meet "100% of students' financial need," they always mean that they use their own calculations to determine the student's financial need. This typically is less than students' parents are prepared to pay, and even in the best cases may include more work study and loans than students wants.</p>

<p>"the school worked with my family and we reached an agreement – all the while I could have easily gone elsewhere. If anything, I’d bet that elite colleges are more understanding and less vindictive than people here make them seem.'</p>

<p>I don't see the schools as being vindictive if they feel that they have met someone's financial need, yet the student decides to back out of ED because, for example, they prefer to get a full ride from a merit aid-based less competitive college instead of accepting a more competitive college's need-based award that includes loans, work study and parental contribution.</p>

<p>There also are plenty of parents with high incomes who have chosen to have expensive cars, expensive houses, expensive travel and huge consumer debt and think that they shouldn't crimp their comfy lifestyle to pay for their kid's education. Instead, they think the college should give them some need-based aid.</p>

<p>Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I've heard Harvard admissions officers say that each year, they are flooded with those kind of requests, including from such families who think that Harvard will match the wonderful merit offer their student got from a public or less competitive private college. Sorry, things don't work that way.</p>

<p>"Oh wow. So now a school can also decide what constitutes an ‘emergency’ too?"</p>

<p>Sure, their game, their rules. They are neither heartless nor stupid. Changing one's mind isn't considered an emergency. </p>

<p>Bottom line: If one isn't 100% sure that one wants to go to the ED school, then don't apply ED. If finances are a consideration, then don't apply ED.</p>

<p>If despite all of this advice, you still want to game the system, we can't stop you nor can we protect you from any consequences.</p>

<p>Harvard may be inundated with requests to review financial aid packages. But some of them are legitimate requests and Harvard is one of the best schools for MATCHING packages (financial aid NOT merit) that other schools give students.</p>

<p>The truth about 'adequate' financial aid is that it only negatively affects the middle class, some of whom are accustomed to living certain ways, did not feel the need to save for their child's college tuition, or simply don't feel like paying. The truly impoverished students are given full rides. Impoverished being any family that makes less than I think $60,000 a year, no loans, at least that is Harvard's new policy.</p>

<p>Rejecting students who break the ED agreement and notifying the ED school who will then rescind the offer of admission is a practice in top colleges as a matter of honor BETWEEN THE SCHOOLS. Sure, none of them want to get played by an applicant, but if school A checks for kids 'cheating' on school B then school B will reciprocate and things will work out best for the schools.</p>

<p>Is financial aid perfect? No. But most kids who could get into a top school could get full aid/merit aid at other schools which are just as good. A full ride at Williams/Swarthmore/Amherst/UVa/UNC-CH/UT-Austin etc etc etc is just as good, if not better, than 4 years at Harvard that culminate in debt.</p>

<p>I understand that many people feel ED is unfair. But it is only unfair in certain situations. And considering that the vast majority of kids who apply ED to top schools (somewhere between 60-75% at most places) are either rejected or deferred, ED really doesn't 'trap' that many people.</p>

<p>If you don't like ED, then don't do it. The belief that every student MUST apply early is absurd. Early programs are for certain kinds of students who know what they want and are sure of it.</p>

<p>Northstarmom is, as usual, right on target. ED, EA and SCEA are all offers of an atypical deal from the college, and different colleges do it vastly different ways. But always, they are proposing a deviation from standard operating procedures for applicants who are willing to go by the conditions they set. It's sort of like getting a proposal of marriage from a wealthy celebrity, provided you're willing to sign a prenuptial agreement. It might seem appealing to hope for a way to manipulate the agreement so you get to share in the wealth regardless of the outcome of the partnership, but ultimately the offer's on the table - if you can live with the conditions, consider accepting it; if not, walk away. Trying to redefine the deal through deceit is a very good way to doom the relationship from the outset.</p>

<p>"The truth about 'adequate' financial aid is that it only negatively affects the middle class, some of whom are accustomed to living certain ways, did not feel the need to save for their child's college tuition, or simply don't feel like paying. The truly impoverished students are given full rides. "</p>

<p>Not true at all. </p>

<p>First, very few college in the country cover ALL of the expense of college through grants. By "all", I mean tuition, room and board, clothes, transportation, equipment like computers, etc. Probably the only ones that do this are the service academies, and of course one pays a price for their generosity.</p>

<p>Places like Harvard are generous with very poor students, but such students still have a self help component to provide through work study, working durin the summer, and at virtually all of the most generous colleges, by also taking out some loans.</p>

<p>Most very poor students lack the educational background and intelligence to go to the most generous colleges, places like Harvard. I am not denigrating poor students: Most students of any socioeconomic background lack the academics and intelligence to gain acceptance to a place like Harvard.</p>

<p>In the case of the poorest students, however, due to their typically going to weak schools (since schools are largely supported by propery taxes, which means schools in the poorest neighborhoods have the worst teachers, equipment, fewer APs, etc.), their high education options are much more likely to be things like community colleges and third tier colleges. Neither type of college tends to have a lot of need-based aid.</p>

<p>Typically, the less competitive colleges are, the less need-based financial aid they're able to offer. They simply don't have the financial resources to meet students' demonstrated financial need. They also have a far higher percentage of needy students than do the most competitive colleges, which have a disproportionate number of students from wealthy families who can donate big bucks.</p>

<p>Poor students also are less likely to have the scores and grades to qualify for merit aid that several states now offer to their public colleges. The students who get the bulk of such aid are solidly middle class. I've seen students literally driving Lexuses who are getting full tuition paid through state-sponsored merit aid. Meanwhile, I;ve seen students whose parents are disabled, in prison, etc. having to literally sell their blood in order to get money for college. They also tend to carry a staggering amount of debt-- and may be working and sending money home to help support their parents, siblings grandparents.</p>

<p>It's an oft repeated myth that the poorest students have it easiest when it comes to financial aid. Clearly, the people who have it best are wealthy people for whom paying even $50 k a year in tuition is a drop in the bucket.</p>

<p>For middle class people, however, college still is attainable without that much strain -- if they take the cheapest options. I see middle class students complaining here because their parents say they students won't be able to go to schools across the country that cost $50,000 a year. Such students often complain that they'll have to "settle" for something like their in-state flagship or live at home and commute to a 4-year public, something their parents may be able to afford relatively easily.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, the poorest students are having difficulty affording a community college that they can commute to from home. They may not be able to afford a car or insurance (which tends to be sky high in inner cities, far higher than in middle class suburbs), public transportation is typically inadequate, and if they live at home (which may be small and crowed), their parents may need them to chip in and help with the bills.</p>

<p>No way is it easy for poor people to get the financial assistance they need to go to college.</p>