<p>Hey everyone,
My name is Mike and I am currently in my first semester as a 1L at Rutgers, Camden. Coming into Law School I had a general notion that I would like to work in BigLaw. This past week I went to an event at Morgan, Lewis & Bockius's office in D.C. and the notion was more strongly solidified. I feel extremely fortunate that I attended this event at such an early stage of law school. This is mainly because I am in a position where I can still make that happen. I'd like to know what I need to do to make that happen, however. I realize that the top firms attract numerous applicants from across the board. I also realize that, while my school has a good reputation, it is not Yale. However, I am also just as aware that it is not unheard of for alumni from my school to land Big Law jobs. So, again, what do I need to do? I understand that grades are important (as they are in every field). I guess what I'm really asking is, what can I do to give myself that edge that is needed to break into big law? What is going to make an employee look at me and say, "we need to hire this guy"? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!</p>
<p>Get excellent grades. Your 1L grades are extremely important because they will lead to the summer clerkship that will hopefully lead to an associate position. You need to shoot for the to 10% of the class, particularly if Rutgers is one of the schools that only gives honors at that level. I’m not sure how Rutgers chooses Law Review staff but if writing on is necessary, go for it. Of course, you also need to be presentable and interview well but top grades and law review will make up for a lot. BTW, if you do manage top 10% after 1st year, don’t slack off. Your transcript will haunt you the rest of your biglaw life. The same is true for top in house jobs. You may get your first job based on first year grades, but your second job will be based on your final GPA and even T14 graduates with mediocre transcripts get doors slammed in their faces.</p>
<p><a href=“Page Not Found | Rutgers Law”>Page Not Found | Rutgers Law; Since you’re already a 1L, I presume you’re plugged into the Rutgers Career Development office. As cartera says, your IL GPA is all-important. The fall recruitment program for 2Ls is a huge deal at every law school, and I imagine you’re already reading up on it, since it’s the best-established pathway to Biglaw. Students at the top of the class have a huge advantage in being selected for interviews. </p>
<p>Law schools have been pressured recently to be more transparent about how well their students do in all areas of job placement, including Biglaw. You might be able to dig around on your school’s website to see what the actual numbers are.</p>
<p>Thank you for the responses. I truly appreciate all the guidance I can get. </p>
<p>Frazzled1 - due to ABA regulations, I am not permitted any contact with the career development office until November. Admittedly, while I was aware of one interview conducted by Morgan, Lewis on my campus this coming August, I was not aware that there is a fall recruitment program. It is most definitely something I will look into now. </p>
<p>Cartera45 - When you say the summer clerkship, is there a certain type of clerkship I should be seeking? Are you speaking in reference to the internships offered by these large firms? Or are you speaking to the position I should be seeking this coming summer? If the latter, Should I be more focused on trying to land a clerkship for an attorney or for a Judge? In regards to a judicial clerkship, would a large firm look at a clerkship for a State trial court, for example, and consider that to have less weight than a clerkship for, say, a district court of appeals? Is there significance in the level of court, or is having landed a Judicial clerkship prestigious enough in itself?</p>
<p>
By “plugged into” the Career Development office, I meant reading their emails and being aware of their services, schedules, and procedures. The 2L fall recruitment is often referred to as OCI (on-campus interviewing), and, at my d’s school, it’s complicated and requires a good deal of effort in advance. Career Services makes all the info available, so be on the lookout for it.</p>
<p>What I’ve read about the 1L summer (and I’m not a lawyer, just a relatively nosy mom) is that it’s important to have an internship or other position somewhere in the field of law, in order to have something to discuss at OCI. This probably will not be in Biglaw, but that shouldn’t have a negative impact on your Biglaw chances as long as your stats are excellent and your resume is impressive (I hope cartera will correct me if I’m wrong). My d did an internship for the DOJ (unpaid); several of her friends worked for Legal Aid, DA’s offices, nonprofits, public defenders, etc., in various locations.</p>
<p>mike, have you ever looked at toplawschoolsdotcom? It has an extensive section on legal employment.</p>
<p>It’s the 2L clerkship that is the most important, but your first year grades play a huge role in getting the best summer clerkships. You have more flexibility for your 1L summer. Interning for a judge is a great way to spend that summer. You won’t have a real judicial clerkship until after you graduate and those can be huge for employment prospects, particularly if you land a federal clerkship. They matter less if you don’t plan to litigate. Some students choose to clerk or intern after their first year in smaller firms in their hometown for example. Spending some time in a smaller firm can actually give you a better idea of what attorneys do on a day to day basis. You may decide you like the smaller firm atmosphere.</p>
<p>Where are you looking to work? I’ve hired at big law firms for decades and I can tell you that most do not hire from Rutgers in Manhattan. However, many top law firms have offices outside of Manhattan and they do hire from Rutgers, as do many excellent regional firms. As you were told above, the key is top, top, top grades. In this market, people without stellar, almost perfect, grades don’t get interviews. You should look carefully at this page and understand the process for hiring of summer associate positions in the summer after your second year. The vast majority of permanent, post-graduation hiring is done by way of summer associate positions, so that recruiting period is critical. If you then get a judicial clerkship, your position in the law firm at which you summered will be held for the completion of your clerkship. But be aware that even interview slots, never mind call backs or actual offers, are very hard to come by. You are coming out of school at a very difficult time for BigLaw and you should have a strong plan B because, to be honest with you, students from the more prestigious law schools often suck all the air out of the room. Good luck!
[Fall</a> Recruiting | camlaw.rutgers.edu](<a href=“Page Not Found | Rutgers Law”>Page Not Found | Rutgers Law)</p>
<p>Cartera - thank you for the clarification on the internships. I’m leaning away from litigation, so perhaps I will seek an internship at a smaller firm as you have suggested.</p>
<p>frazzled - I visited the site before when I was looking at schools just to read up on profiles. This is the first time I’ve seen the forum on employment. You’re right, it is quite extensive. I’m going to page through it and see what I can find. I’ve also found some pretty useful information about internships on thevault.com. </p>
<p>Zoosermom - Well, I was hoping to end up in D.C… I live right by Philadelphia, so I wouldn’t be opposed to that market either. Philadelphia is the primary market for Rutgers Camden grads because of the proximity. There isn’t exactly a strong presence of Rutgers Alum in D.C.,but there are some down there. Are you familiar with the D.C. market at all? Would you say it is as equally difficult to break into? Also, is there any transferability between these offices of large firms (within the same general firm, I mean)? I know there would be an issue with the various state bars, but setting that aside…</p>
<p>General question: At these meet and greets that we have with Professors, alumni, and practicing attorneys I’ve been noticing a pattern. Many of them who practice in multiple states “waved the bar” in one or more states. How does that work? Does one pay a fee, score so high on their own state’s bar, combination? </p>
<p>All of these responses have been really great. Thank you.</p>
<p>DC is very tough, as well, but there is definitely room to move between offices of the same firm. Happens all the time.</p>
<p>Each state has its own admissions requiremenents. Pass the bar and apply for admission. Generally, you have to prove moral fitness and fill out a lot of paperwork and provide the names of recommenders.</p>
<p>If you have super-top grades and a good resume, with realistic expectations you may be ok.</p>
<p>I think ( I am not a lawyer) the DC market is quite saturated. My D lived there for several years and seemed like every other person she met was a lawyer. My son’s best friend (law grad) works for a lobbyist in DC.
I have 2 nieces who were working for biglaw in NYC and now relocated to Silicon Valley area. The new firms gave each of them 6 weeks paid leave to study for the California bar. California has no reciprocity with NY bar.</p>
<p>cbreeze - you’re absolutely right about that. According to the National Jurist (a law student magazine circulated on campuses throughout the country), something like 8% of the D.C. population has some type of job in the legal profession. There are a good amount of firms in the city however, and the BPI makes it all the more attractive for young attorneys (yes, I’m reciting verbatim from the article haha). Also, I thoroughly enjoy the city. That being said, while I definitely prefer D.C., I am open to any and all suggestions. At this point I would say that in regards to where I see myself working I have a preference, but nothing near a certainty. How do your nieces feel about the Silicon Valley?</p>
<p>Generally, does anyone have any other legal markets besides D.C. and Philadelphia that they would suggest I look into? Things I’m considering are: culture of the city (or area), culture of the legal community, average salaries for entering Associates, size of the legal market, potential for advancement, and so on. I am aware that some of these considerations tend to be more firm specific than location specific, but I figured I’d put them out there anyway.</p>
<p>As always, I sincerely appreciate the responses. As I read more and more of this information, I realize what a disadvantage not knowing it could be. So, thank you all.</p>
<p>Mikeshouldbeking, can you afford the law school tuition in such a way that if you don’t get a job you won’t be wiped out financially? I can’t fully explain to you how many law grads are either completely unemployed or working as temporary attorneys and can’t begin their adult lives because of the heavy debt load. It’s a tough, tough market. If I were you, I would be looking at smaller firms in the area which have a relationship with Rutgers Camden and not focusing on BigLaw.</p>
<p>I have a scholarship. I agree that my focus should first be on getting a job in general and perhaps landing my dream job sometime in the future. At the same time, I think I should still try to more fully understand what is required to land that dream job and where it possibly can be found. If I don’t, I am working toward a goal without any clear path.</p>
<p>What you have to remember is that for more than 90% of people, getting the dream job in BigLaw is just a very long-term temporary position. Think of it as a very high-stakes game of Survivor. At some point you will get tapped on the shoulder and asked to find another career option. That said, if you have a scholarship you are in great, great shape and I still suggest that you find out whatever you can about the firms that your school’s placement office most closely deals with. Also check your resume to make sure you have something interesting on there that would make an interviewer want to meet you. In the last few years I’ve noticed that people coming straight from college to law school without doing anything else are at a disadvantage in hiring. That didn’t used to be the case.</p>
<p>You will be competing against the better half of T14 students. Honestly, unless you’re at the absolute top of your class rank, you will be more likely recruited by regional firms.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be a jerk, but to inject a cold, yet realistic appraisal of reality, you will be lucky to get a legal job paying 50-55k/yr coming out of Rutgers. Job market is bad. I mean, really bad. Nearly 30-35% of the class from my law school - a top 6 law school - graduated unemployed this year. </p>
<p>FYI, I just went through OCI as a 2L this year, and secured a Biglaw offer in NYC. I’ve been through the process, and after interviewing for tons of firms, I think I have a decent understanding of the Biglaw hiring process.</p>
<p>Based on my observation so far, you had to be close to median to have a shot at Biglaw coming from my school. Many kids in the bottom third were completely out of luck for Biglaw this year. Now, outside of top10 arena - I have four friends at Fordham Law, (which is a T25 school and heavy non-T14 feeder into NYC Biglaw), and my friends confirm that anything below top 20% at Fordham was the kiss of death for Biglaw recruiting this year.</p>
<p>Now, I don’t exactly know what class rank you would need coming from Rutgers to break into Biglaw, but just going off the statistics from Fordham, I’d venture to guess that you would need to be at least top 5% of your class after 1L to have a realistic shot. </p>
<p>Again, I don’t mean to sound like a jerk here, and apologize for this admittedly negative post. Just trying to paint a realistic picture. Honestly though in this economy, if Biglaw is your ultimate goal, you shouldn’t take a risk attending any law school ranked below T14 and maybe a handful of other strong regional schools.</p>
<p>NYULawyer, there is nothing for you to apologize about. You are absolutely correct. Rutgers is not the place for BigLaw recruiting. Unless the student is black, because diversity recruitment works with different law schools.</p>