Brilliant but lazy niece, High SATs/Low GPA

Parents Forum
1

<p>I've been worried about by intelligent but absolutely disorganized niece, and I just found a post on this site, aladdressing a problem that is similiar to mine (but with some crucial differences), with some excellent advice via google. So here's to hoping I get some good advice as well (which I really need_.</p>

<p>I'm an Indian American and both my cousin and his wife are immigrants who moved to America from India, about 20 years ago. Both of them come from lower middle class backgrounds in India, but have excellent educational qualifications and are financially well off right now.</p>

<p>My niece (a rising senior) is their only child and in their efforts to give her all of the freedom and upper-class luxuries that they did not have growing up, I'm afraid they've spoilt her absolutely rotten.</p>

<p>I am very fond of my niece and concerned for her future. There is no question about the fact that she's bright. All her teachers think so, and her SAT scores (2320, 780 in Math, 750 in chem) which she achieved with little preparation, are proof of this. She got 4s in her Economics and Calculus APs in 10th grade, due mainly to extensive last minute studying the week before the exams.</p>

<p>However, her GPA is extremely low: 3.12 unweighted (despite the fact that she studies at a top-ranked private school). All of her teachers have said that she is easily capable of being at the top of her class and achieving a MUCH higher GPA, and it is only her laziness and lack of organization that are holding her back. My niece is not the least bit concerned about it. She is not building up her ECs either. </p>

<p>This is mainly due to the fact that she is a California resident and she will be applying to university this year and she thinks her SAT scores alone are enough to get her into a decent UC. I checked the site and it did say that SAT scores alone are a possible admission path for in-state students seeking admission before 2011, and she has sufficient scores. But I'm wondering if this will get her admission into a good UC, or just Merced/ Riverside? Also, is their any minimum GPA requirement?</p>

<p>More importantly, can any of you suggest ways in which I can convince her to use her potential, because there is no way she is going to be able to get through college as easily as she has gotten through highschool (procrastination, skipping classes)</p>

<p>Worryingly, she stays out very late (she comes home around 3 a.m most weekends, she's 17) and often neglects 'unimportant' assignments because she was partying. Her parents let her stay out late, but unfortunately, are absolutely clueless about American high school culture and parties.</p>

<p>Yesterday, one of my niece's close friend's parents (who is a friend of mine) called to tell me that my niece sometimes gets drunk at parties and has a bit of a reputation with boys. (She recently found out her daughter was part of that group, and thought I had the right to know about my niece)</p>

<p>I am extremely confused right now: should I tell my cousin, who is a very conservative man whose life revolves around his daughter (he will be devastated) or try to sort it out with her myself? (we share a pretty good relationship) I was thinking I could explain to her that it might seem cool right now, but it is far more important for her to focus right now on her studies, so that she can get into a good college, where it will be normal (and legal) for her to party the way she does right now? Or do you think suggesting a physciatrist to my cousin would be a good idea to help both him and my niece deal with the problem?</p>

2

<p>■■■■■ alert!</p>

3

<p>^How?
10 char</p>

4

<p>Read the post, it mirrors a genuine one by a parent recently, and was mocked. Not for a moment do I believe that an “aunt” knows every test score, AP test scores, “She got 4s in her Economics and Calculus APs in 10th grade, due mainly to extensive last minute studying the week before the exams,” and my favorite, “Worryingly, she stays out very late (she comes home around 3 a.m most weekends, she’s 17) and often neglects ‘unimportant’ assignments because she was partying. Her parents let her stay out late, but unfortunately, are absolutely clueless about American high school culture and parties.”</p>

<p>An “aunt” doesn’t know about extensive test prep, and I highly doubt imigrant parents are allowing their daughter out partying till 3 a.m.</p>

5

<p>I stated at the beginning of my post that the only reason I joined this website was because I came across similiar post with good advice, via google.</p>

<p>I visit my niece almost every weekend and I am very involved in her planning for college, like I said I was concerned about her GPA and even checked the UC website to make sure she wasnt ruining her future. I know about her test prep because her parents often tell me about it. (They are proud of her because they think that her high scores despite low preparation just shows her brilliance) I dont think it is at all unusual for an aunt who is close to her niece to know these details, and certainly not in an Indian family.</p>

<p>As for the partying, it is VERY unusual, but like I already said her parents absolutely dote on her and want to give her all the freedom and luxury that they did not have. And they are (falsely) confident that they have given her strong ‘Indian values’ that she will abide by, which is why I am so hesitant to tell them about this, because they really have no idea at all. Also, she tells them that none of her friends drink and they believe her. </p>

<p>I dont see why I would ‘trool’ about something like this anyway, its not some imaginary accomplishment that I can pretend to be proud of. If you can give me genuine advice, please do. But spare me the unneccasary viciousness and racial stereotypes (I doubt immigrant parents would)</p>

6

<p>My advice would be to get your relationship straightened out: your cousin’s daughter is not your niece; she is your cousin, once-removed.</p>

7

<p>The best advice I can give it to butt out. She’s our niece (or cousin, or whatever?) not your kid. If what you say is true, she’s rebelling - against what I can only speculate. Until she decides - for herself - that school means something your pestering will only exacerbate the rebellion. Let her succeed or fail on her own. If she’s as bright as you say (and those test scores indicate) she’ll be fine. I suspect that will happen once she’s out from under Mommy and Daddy and Aunty’s microscope.</p>

8

<p>I disagree - she’s on a bad path. I imagine she will get into college, but what will she do when there? I think you or her parents need to step in and at least tell her of the dangers of her behavior, demand she shape up, etc., or they won’t pay for another four years of the same. Graduating from a 4-year college with a 3.1 GPA isn’t the path towards failure, but being a drunk isn’t the path to success either.</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>In the West, yes. But by Indian standards, a cousin is treated like a brother and sister and their child is her niece. Just a clarification. </p>

<p>In 1985 when my cousin came here, I took him to RPI to settle him in. The landlord of the house he (and other grad students) were renting asked me my relationship with him and my cousin said ‘she is my sister’ and I quickly corrected him ‘he is my cousin’. My cousin hasn’t forgiven me for that even now. He still recalls that conversation. Families in India are very close, they help each other out. And a cousin is a “brother” or “sister”.</p>

<p>p.s - not passing judgement or anything. I’ve lived in the west for the last 30 years too.</p>

10

<p>As for advice: I am an American of Indian descent too. If I were you, I would try to talk to your niece and tell her how hard admission to the UC system is. Just getting good SAT scores will not get her admission to the UCs. </p>

<p>As for partying and stuff like that, you should be careful. You don’t know what she’s doing. If you and she are close, you could talk to her. You could also talk to her parents who are ultimately responsible for her.</p>

11

<p>I think you should talk to your niece and explain your thoughts and because you care and have a good relationship with her it will make a difference.</p>

<p>I am wondering why is she allowed to stay out so late…its unsafe to say the least.</p>

12

<p>I’m with GA2012 on this one.</p>

13

<p>Achat, thanks for understanding (and explaining the cousin bit). I guess that a lot of other posters dont get what I am saying because of the cultural difference, and how close-knit Indian families generally are. Considering that you are an Indian too, and obviously know the culutral taboos associated with underage drinking (especially for girls) do you think I should tell my cousin (who will be overwhelmed) or try to sort things out with my niece? Also, are you sure that her SAT scores alone will not be enough for her to get into a UC? She is a California resident. Thank you so much</p>

14

<p>WorriedAunt, you could talk to your niece if you think you are close to her. Or talk to your cousin if you are close to her. Tell her, your niece’s welfare is your primary concern. If she refuses to listen, then this is not your concern and all you can do is watch in frustration.</p>

<p>I am not an expert on UC admissions. I could tell you, though, she certainly won’t get into UCLA, UC Berkeley or UCSD. The standards are incredibly, incredibly high these days. I don’t know much about UC Santa Barbara or UC Irvine or other UCs. You should visit the individual school forums on CC and ask these questions.</p>

15

<p>In both the Indian and Chinese cultures it is not uncommon for children to consider second cousins as sisters or brothers. The families are very close and look out for one another…something to be admired. American culture was this way many years back when the thinking was that it took a “village to raise a child.” </p>

<p>As for your question regarding telling your family member about the behavior of their child…How would they feel if you did’nt tell them and they found out that you knew. There are tactful ways to tell them without providing all of the details, some of which may not be entirely true because you did not see it with your own eyes.</p>

<p>By the way for those who are not familar with the Indian culture, It is very common for extended families to know things like their nieces and nephews test scores and study habits. The aunts, uncles and older cousins are a huge support system for the children of the family. What seems strange to American families is the very reason why American families seem so strange and distant to Indian families.</p>

16

<p>In India, admission to college is based on test scores only, so I can see why worriedaunt’s cousins think it’s the same way here and their daughter’s excellent scores will get her into a top UC. But things are different in the US. This girl is unlikely to be admitted to UCLA, UC Berkeley or UCSD. Davis is a possibility, and Santa Cruz, Merced and Riverside would be locks, I imagine. But an Indian family is not going to want to send their bright daughter to Merced.</p>

<p>There is an admission process called “Admission by Exception,” where students who don’t qualify in the normal way get in because of great test scores. But, Berkeley, UCLA and UCSD are not going to use that to admit bright slackers. They’re rejecting students with top scores and top grades! They certainly are not going to reach out to admit a student with top scores and mediocre grades. Admission by Exception is for students like homeschoolers, who have top test scores but don’t have a normal school transcript, but who have shown their excellence in other ways.</p>

17

<p>person who did not realize that there are 2 most important numbers, not one is not that brilliant by definition. In addition, I heard from several admission offices that GPA is more important because it indicates work ethic and a better predictor of college GPA than standardised score. After saying that, there is a college for almost anybody, just find a match and go for it. Everybody is limited one way or another, it might be financial situation, location,…other restricitons, and yes, for some it is their GPA.</p>

18

<p>If this post is legit, then her GPA for college admissions is already set. She will have to live with what she has and accept the outcome. If she is this really wild daughter of Indian immigrants (something I have never experienced and I have had quite a few female Indian students whose parents are new to America) then she will have to learn the hard way - DUI, pregnancy, flunking out of school. Now, I have had a few male Indian students who were very similar to the type described by the OP, but never a female one.</p>

<p>For those familiar with their culture, does it happen more often that the males are like this and not the females?</p>

19

<p>[AHS</a> c/o 2008](<a href=“http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/college.html]AHS”>http://www.arcadiachineseparents.org/college.html)</p>

<p>Here are real life results (albeit from the class of 2008–note that admissions has gotten TOUGHER (!!) since then–that correlate unweighted GPA & SAT scores to admissions results. These scatterplots give a pretty good idea of UC results since there are so many data points.</p>

<p>Back in 2008, she could kiss UCLA and Berkeley goodbye, feel supremely confident about Merced and Riverside, and feel pretty good about her chances at the other UCs. </p>

<p>Since things have gotten tougher in the past few years (there were kids from our high school who didn’t get into UCSB this past year when in past years, they would have been a shoo-in), I would make sure that she acknowledges that she may be unpleasantly surprised with her results and have a back up safety plan–if Santa Cruz, Riverside and Merced aren’t her cup of tea.</p>

<p>So basically, your niece may be right that the mid range UCs are within her grasp without any more effort than she is putting forth. If she’s satisfied with that, then I would let her be. It’s her life and when she is ready to live up to her potential, she will–but it has to come from her.</p>

20

<p>

</p>

<p>Me, too, MOWC.</p>