http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-a-prudent-college-path.html?_r=0
Just a handful of “gems” from the combox.
"An honors program at a southern college is simply not going to draw the caliber of faculty and students that one would find at major research universities. And students don’t realize that the faculty may be good, but they, as well as the better students, are held back if most in the classroom are not used to excelling. " This is the most outrageous statement, for in UA’s Honors Program, a student IS surrounded by high achieving fellow students and faculty. Close to a third of the entire student body is in the Honors Program. 36% of the freshman class has an ACT of 30 or higher. At least 25% have an ACT of 32 or higher. And yes, the anti Southern bigotry is appalling. It seems that the Southern people is the one group of people that Americans feel comfortable generalizing about. Just imagine replacing Southerners with some other group. The comment would most likely be flagged and the commenter banned.
That kid will probably be a millionaire by the time he’s 35. 
You know what kind of cesspool you’re getting into by looking in the comments section. These people are so biased they don’t even bother to understand Ronald Nelson’s reason for picking UA. He wants to go to med school, and his parents make too much for him to get any FA from any of the Ivys. Bama is giving him practically a full ride. He can pretty much get into med school given his abilities, so he will save up money for med school that otherwise wasn’t used to pay for an Ivy UG degree. An Ivy UG degree means nothing to med school ADCOMs, as been said on CC countless times. Only thing that matter is GPA and MCAT. That Mr. Nelson had the clarity of purpose in picking his UG school shows a level of maturity that the NYT commenters doesn’t possess.
Pragmatism, how refreshing! I am sure he will have his pick of the Ivies when it’s time to go to medical school.
By the way, UA had an Honors Program as early as the early to mid 80s. It became a college, like the College of Arts and Sciences, College of Engineering, in 2003. The article makes it seem that the Honors experience is something relatively new at UA.
Except for the endless “chance me” threads, the prestige versus price argument here on this website and elsewhere is just plain tiring. There will always be people who choose the more economical choice over the more prestigious choice–and vice versa. It is that person’s/family’s choice to make–and it shouldn’t be anyone’s place to criticize.
I noticed in one of the comments that someone thinks the Honors classes at schools like UA are taught by grad students. SMH! What is up with these snobby people?
I really have no issue with the article’s comments. But, we are 100% confident in our decision for our DD to take her scholarship at UA. When we did our research, it was a simple choice of great opportunities with zero debt for UA versus heavy debt load for Ivies. We are investing the cash we would have spent for DD on undergraduate degree at Ivies, and it will be there for her for medical school. She will enter residency with zero debt–and no stresses on money. If she decides not to pursue medical school, she can go to another grad program. In speaking to our friends/colleagues who were physicians, they said they were always in awe of those who entered residency with zero to minimal debt burden–those folks could buy houses, and cars, and go on vacations.
After all, this is an undergraduate school education. And as far as the gentleman’s comments on the state of Alabama, that comes from ignorance. Oh, yes, and there’s a whole group of really smart students at UA working on eradicating poverty in Alabama–they are highly regarded at the University–called University Fellows–one of which is the young man in the article above.
Everyone’s situation is different. Harvard does not offer any merit scholarships; however, Harvard guarantees to meet the full financial need of every admitted student. Accordingly, there are kids who attend Harvard from families who are low-income who pay little to nothing for an Ivy League education. On the other hand, the kid in the article comes from a middle-income household thus Harvard would expect that his family would be willing to pay probably somewhere between $25K - $40K a year, depending on their exact financial circumstances to get that Harvard degree.
Faced with those realities, and in consideration of the fact that his education does not end at the undergraduate level, it sounds to me like this kid made a savvy financial choice in choosing to get his undergraduate degree essentially debt free at UA. That’s a decision however based on the unique circumstances of his family, everyone’s situation is different. For bright kids from low-income families who participate in programs such as Questbridge, an Ivy League education is likely going to be cheaper than going to their local flagship university - but that’s not the kid’s situation.
Having said that, I wouldn’t be surprised that once his undergrad education at UA is completed, this very bright and savvy kid will likely end up at one of those “elite” medical schools like Johns Hopkins or Harvard Medical School, albeit with no undergraduate debt. Good luck to him.
I do think that we can help end the high levels of poverty in the state, but I think it is ironically a little elitist for people to think that elites can eradicate poverty. Poor people have a role to play too. Again, not knocking the work of University Fellows, but do think it is important for local communities to take greater responsibility for their lot. The various communities in Alabama, White and Black, rich and poor need to more strongly value education and intellectual endeavor. Of course, if you have nothing, then you probably don’t have time to ponder philosophy, etc. Perhaps if they can help change this aspect of culture in the state, then they can help eradicate the high levels of poverty.
I am perplexed how anyone could state some of the elitist nonsense in this article. There are many southern schools that have incredible honors programs and there are many people who are at the top of their field who went to these so-called “lesser” schools. The name may get you the great first job or the fabulous internship but as one poster said…the kid from Alabama may own the company.
Marilyn Hewson, CEO of Lockheed Martin, University of Alabama. Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, Auburn University. Nuf said.
We do have our own “elite” institutions in the South, there are the Southern Ivies which include Duke (Durham, NC); Rice (Houston, Texas); Emory (Atlanta, GA) and Vanderbilt (Nashville, TN). If a kid wants to attend a private, highly selective institution, it not necessary to venture north of the Mason-Dixon line.
If my son were selected into an Ivy he will have to do the same thing, the news will be: “Hispanic son of Single Mom chooses Umass over Ivy”. I told him do not even bother applying because we will get $15 or 20K in $ help to pay $65,000 tuition and your sister is going to college in 2 years, let’s avoid temptation. Honestly, at the end of the day if one is a lousy professional no brand name school will save you… good for him!
…just when I thought this issue had died down… =;
This will always be the issue. UA knows this, as well as other schools. UA has taken the initiative in academics as it does in athletics. UA has laid down the gauntlet–give high-achieving students a scholarship as early as September, and ask families to wait until the following March to decide whether or not they want / can / choose to pay $65k/yr for an undergraduate degree. The commitment to excellence and making it happen at UA is impressive. Anyone who has had that personal attention on a campus visit knows exactly this point.
Arizona State just announced it will be offering full ride to its 2016 incoming MBA class. Wow! It is already an elite business school and the best in the country in at least supply chain management. Go figure. The gauntlet is being laid down by those who understand these trends. And Michael Crow, ASU president, is the most innovative and influential college president in the country (google him). Yes, more than any of the Ivy presidents.
The big-picture schools are figuring out is that the USA will not be able to support so many outstanding universities in the future. The declining state budgets for higher education will be the death knell of the regional state universities that can’t draw OOS or international students. Public universities, though non-profit, need to be profitable. Forward-thinking flagships like Bama --a true innovator in this process–see the return on investment in hiring the most expensive coach/teacher in college football and hire away great teachers from other institutions (Texas did this in the 80s and 90s with the oil money)–the prestige bleeds into every aspect of a university today. This is a great time to take advantage of these trends, our historical moment. And historical moment is defining.
Prestige vs. pragmatism. The kid that toured us around Duke engineering was a nice guy, but a bit of a doofus. The two ChE majors in UA’s CBH we talked to were intelligent and engaging. Grad schools and employers know the difference.
And so should we.
Good, interesting replies.
I’ll admit this: I’m not impressed with the kids that I’ve met & conversed with that attended several of the Ivies/top privates. Yes, they score very on the ACT/SAT. Yes, they tend to be better public speakers. Yes, they tend to produce clearer (sometimes interesting) opinion pieces in their college newspaper. But they are no wiser than those who don’t posses such academic acumen. In fact, I found their naivety to reach almost disastrous, embarrassing levels, if not with a dollop of arrogance. I will always remember reading a response to a question of why state schools were looked down upon, or weren’t considered a serious place to attend higher learning by top high school performers - the response went something like this: “Because the very best don’t want to sit in a calculus class with the kid who floated through high school who got a 26 in his ACT, or Kim from small town nowhere who’s focusing on elementary teaching.”
@NoVADad99 In all fairness to avoid circlejerking, if you want to name fortune 500 CEOs in an attempt to put southern schools on the list, at least acknowledge the fact that an overwhelming amount of those CEOs did in fact go to ivies. And they far outnumber the two schools you mentioned.
^^Read the entire thread and not just cherry pick one of my comments to set up a strawman argument. The point is that Ronald Nelson is not shorting himself by picking UA over the Ivies because in the end he will get to where he wants to go, and that UA is not going to give him an inferior education. Yes, Ivies open doors to some areas of life that non-Ivies don’t. But it doesn’t mean that the door is slammed shut if you don’t go to an Ivy. Hewson and Cook are at the pinnacle of leaders in their industry. They’re not pikers.