Brown PLME vs. Harvard or Princeton?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
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<p>I was admitted to the PLME at Brown, as well as Harvard, Princeton and Dartmouth, among other schools. The only three choices I was really considering were Brown, Harvard and Princeton, but Harvard and Brown are really geographically where I’d like to be, so I can rule out Princeton with reasonable confidence.</p>

<p>That being said, if I go to the PLME, I don’t know if I would feel like I was trading higher potential (say, HMS or JH) for the security of Brown Medical School. Before your cries of “It’s not about the name! If you worry about that you don’t belong at Brown anyway!” I still think this is a legitimate concern, as the PLME requires a strong commitment, many years in advance. Yes, I realize it’s not binding, but if I change, why go into it to begin with?</p>

<p>I know Brown’s Warren Alpert MS is nothing to scoff at, but at the same time, I don’t know if I would want to commit myself to that, and never try for HMS or otherwise. That being said, I have no idea if I could get into HMS in four years. </p>

<p>Also, living at the same university for 8 years might be rough, especially in Providence, not that Providence is bad, just that I think Cambridge is better.</p>

<p>Long opening post, I know, but any advice?</p>

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<p>I’m a PLME freshman, and last year I had a similar dilemma of PLME vs a few other very good schools. I had concerns about the strong commitment, 8 years in one place, and the same sort of “what if” feeling. Of course here I would say “don’t worry about the name” but worrying about it doesn’t mean you don’t belong here or anything like that. I’m sure a lot of my classmates worried about it too. </p>

<p>I ended up making my decision for a variety of reasons. Certainly the guarantee was one of the biggest. The fact that I know I am going to a very good med school is a fantastic weight off my back, but just as important was how I liked Brown as a school. There are plenty of far more eloquent posts scattered through this board on the merits of the Open Curriculum, etc etc, so I won’t go any more into that but… </p>

<p>It’s OK to think more immediate terms. If you really want to go to Harvard, and have good reasons for wanting, then I’m sure you can get into med school at some point. There’s no point in coming here if you’d rather be somewhere else, just because of a guarantee. I didn’t apply to some other med programs specifically because I knew I didn’t want to go to those schools for undergraduate… so why force myself through them just for a guarantee? </p>

<p>Talk to someone, ask some questions… it’s a big decision to make.</p>

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<p>It sounds like you’d rather be at Harvard for undergrad than at Brown. If that’s NOT the case (and I’d urge you to attend both prospective student days to see if it is) then I’d say PLME all the way, because it’s not binding so if you choose you can push yourself at Brown anywho.</p>

<p>However, the fact that you got into the PLME program means you’d almost definitely be successful at either school. Now, the question is how do you want to spend your undergrad years? This is the real bonus of the PLME program: you’re at Brown, which has no core classes, and you get to take full advantage of it despite being pre-med. Whereas if you go to Harvard you’ll have to take all your pre-med requirements in addition to your distribution requirements.</p>

<p>The PLME program really seems an extension of the Brown philosophy: we don’t want people competing to get into the top med school, but rather crafting their own education and taking that with them into a career as a doctor. It’s designed to create doctors who can think in a different perspective. You’ll lose some of that if you decide to “opt-out” and try for better med-schools, because then you’ll have to go through the same course sequence as every other pre-med.</p>

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<p>My son is a 3rd year PLME who was just home on spring break to take his sister to look at colleges. I asked him if he had any regrets about choosing Brown over Yale & Duke and he said absolutely not. He really loves Brown. He seems to appreciate the benefits of PLME now more so than the confident 18 yr old who thought it wouldn’t be that big a deal to apply to med schools. He NOW recognizes that he has had 3 relatively stressfree years of studying whatever he wants without worrying too much about grades. His grades are very good but that’s just the nature of PLME/Brown kids.</p>

<p>Although a science major, he has taken a good deal of liberal arts classes, including some exploratory classes pass/fail. He probably would not have gone in that direction if he were attending another college as it’s so easy to take chances at Brown and try new things. Some of his friends at other colleges are constantly stressing over their GPAs, their volunteering and research opportunities. My son only took classes he wanted (no core) and didn’t have to worry about preparing for and taking MCATs. While he was studying abroad, his friends were busy taking MCATs and/or writing med school apps and stressing all over again (like in HS) about acceptances. He commented that he didn’t consider how expensive the med school application process is but now some of his friends are going through it and talking about the expenses involved in application fees, airfare to interviews, hotels, time spent missing classes, etc. It really adds up.</p>

<p>As for staying in Providence, that was a concern early on although he had spent two Summer@Brown sessions in Providence before college so he knew what he was in for. He made a point of getting out of Providence and working in NYC the past two summers. This past fall he was in Europe so he was away from Providence from May '09 until the end of Jan '10 and I think he really missed the place. In fact, he just told us he accepted a RA job at Brown for this summer (but he does plan to be away from Providence next summer before he starts med school).</p>

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<p>Hey, I am a PLME admit too and I am probably going, but then again I didn’t get into Harvard and Princeton. I probably would have chosen Brown over Princeton/Harvard (though it’s a lot easier to say this when I got rejected from both) because the academic philosophy at Brown is something that I agree with a lot more.</p>

<p>The open curriculum and the questioning, boundary-pushing approach to academia is something that really appeals to me at Brown. Furthermore, people do not seem nearly as cutthroat as I would imagine at a Harvard or Princeton. For simple, obvious reasons these are two amazing things, but pragmatically, for a pre-med, I think it makes a lot of sense as well. I have heard that the grades you get at your undergrad are a lot more important than its prestige (for medical school). In this case, I would imagine that Brown’s undergraduate experience would cater to a far better GPA for us in the case that we do want to transfer out. At the same time, I heard Brown’s neuroscience program is utterly outstanding and I was not considering neuro at the time I applied, but it has been something I have been thinking about doing lately as a result.</p>

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<p>Absolutely go to Harvard or Princeton and don’t look back.</p>

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<p>go to whichever you like best. the PLME shouldn’t bind you. as others have said, if you got into Harvard and you try at Harvard you can get into great med schools.</p>

<p>If you are in love with Brown…then go with PLME</p>

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<p>they are definitely very different places, you’ll probably get a gut feeling after visiting both. </p>

<p>for what it’s worth, i’m a former plme who transplanted to harvard medical school for my residency training. if you look at the brown medical school residency match list, a substantial percentage of the graduating class comes up to harvard for residency (in some years as high as 25%). i now advise harvard pre-meds-feel free to PM me for details, but from my experience, i would not trade my undergrad experience at brown for the world.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the advice guys, it’s insightful and genuine, and I appreciate that deeply.</p>

<p>And chsowlflax17, of course I will be attending the open house programs for both Harvard and Brown. Any other PLME’s of 2014 going, by the way?</p>

<p>I’ve been speaking to a lot of people, and I have to say, I’m still so torn. On one hand, I love the atmosphere of Brown and the student body. The prospect of not having to be a slave to my GPA and my rank, and perhaps even being able to pursue my budding interest in writing is like something out of a dream. The ethos of academic exploration and liberal education is one I admire greatly, and would love to be a part of.</p>

<p>But on the other hand, going to Harvard undergraduate with all the opportunities presented there is also like something out of a dream. A family friend, who is a professor at HMS, tells me I’ll surely get the same quality education at both universities, and the main difference will lie in the medical school. HMS, being much larger, has more opportunities for connections and everything else. That being said, if I am not looking to sub sub sub sub specialize, then the Alpert Medical School would be more than sufficient. God, it sounds so presumptuous to call something like the Alpert Medical School just “more than sufficient.”</p>

<p>My dad boiled it down to this, (although he does tend to oversimplify things) going into the PLME is the safe route. Guaranteed admission to a good medical school, and what will surely be an enriching and meaningful education. Going to Harvard is a path filled with risk, as I have no such guarantee, but also with higher potential. This could mean two things, A) The pressure and insanity of a traditional pre-med grade-grubbing undergraduate education, and B) Maybe it’ll help me sink or swim, and see if I really am cut out to be a doctor. </p>

<p>And I realize it’s not that simple, as success is not limited to one school or another, and where there’s a will, there’s a way, but we’re speaking in practical terms here.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the advice guys, this is a huge decision and you’re all helping me greatly out of the goodness of your hearts.</p>

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<p>axtang, I am a PLME admit going to Brown’s open house (Class of '14). Maybe, I’ll see you there. In response to your last post where you said Harvard Med School is better, you can transfer out of Brown to a “better” medical school if you’d like (including to HMS). You’d just have to take MCATs and all that stuff, but other than that, PLME essentially gives you the opportunity to take this “risk” of getting into a great medical school by still having guaranteed admission into a pretty good medical school as well.</p>

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<p>Awesome! I’ll see you there, maybe? My name’s Alex, for when/if we meet.</p>

<p>I see what you’re saying, zeldafan, and I’ve considered that too. I’m just saying, if I feel there’s a good possibility of me transferring out of the PLME program anyway, there is not much point in entering the program to begin with, or to passing up Harvard.</p>

<p>Run-on sentence, yeah!</p>

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<p>well, you may say there is a good chance to transfer ot now, but you may feel differently in 3-4 years</p>

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<p>It sounds to me like you’d rather go to Brown undergrad, but you don’t really want to go to Brown Medical School. In that case, why can’t you just go to Brown and then apply to other medical schools. As far as I know, being PLME doesn’t force you to go to Brown Medical School. If what you’re afraid of is that you won’t be able to get into as good of a med school from Brown as you could from Harvard… well, all I know is that Brown has one of the highest med school acceptance rates of any college in America, is one of the most heavily represented colleges in HMS etc, so even if it isn’t QUITE as easy to get into a top teir med school, it should still be well within your capabilities.</p>

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<p>Wouldn’t it be easier to get into HMS from Brown (especially PLME) than Harvard? It would be easier to get a significantly higher GPA at Brown, right? And the prestige of Harvard isn’t so significantly better than the prestige of Brown to compensate, I’d think. That’s especially because I heard med schools don’t care particularly much about prestige.</p>

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<p>My S went to a HYP instead of Brown PLME. After planning on becoming a doctor his entire life; he has now switched majors (good or bad, depending). The premeds are very fixated on grades and taking the mcat… making a much more stressful college life. If you “know” you want to be a doc; take the PLME.</p>

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<p>There’s also the possibility that after going to Harvard you won’t get into a med school that’s as good as Brown…it happened to someone we know who not only was very bright but also both his parents were HMS grads. He’s still in med school but not even one of the top two in state schools.</p>

<p>Go with the PLME, besides Harvard undergrad isn’t the same as Harvard grad…the parent of a good friend, a retired Harvard Dean, had this as his favorite personal saying:</p>

<p>“Cambridge and Harvard…what a shame to have to waste them both on undergrads…”</p>

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<p>That’s another concern of mine. It seems that over and over again, people keep making excuses for Harvard just because it’s Harvard, instead of just directly complimenting the school itself. It doesn’t rank very well when looking strictly at undergraduate, and none of the people from there that I’ve spoken to ever really say they LOVE the school, they usually say some half-hearted things and then qualify those things quite a bit. On the other hand, I’ve heard a lot of kids from Brown gush about how much they love their college.</p>

<p>How much is there to Harvard beyond the name, money, and connections?</p>

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<p>That’s an excellent point Axtang. People make excuses for Harvard. In my opinion, it’s not coincidence that the metrics used to determine the U.S. News ordinal collegiate rankings favor HYP. The media, the public, and academia all conspire to make excuses for Harvard when it is pretty clear that it is, by far, overrated as an undergraduate institution. And at the graduate level, Berkeley and Stanford are by far deeper, better, graduate schools than Harvard, MIT, Yale, or Princeton. Here’s my take on this. Americans have a love/hate affair about royalty. On one hand, the public likes to believe that America is one big egalitarian democracy. On the other hand, they worship royalty proxies like celebrities, sports superstars, because, deep down, they like cowtowing to something or someone “better” than themselves. This extends to our educational institutions. If England has Oxford and Cambridge, then, by God, we will have our own Oxford and Cambridge in Harvard and Yale, and we will configure images and “facts” to make this so.</p>

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<p>Hey guys! I am writing a paper about accelerated medical programs such as PLME and was wondering if you could help me out and answer some of my questions. What are some common themes or characteristics of the students who are in a program like this, such as behaviors, attitudes, beilefs, or race/ethnicity. Would you consider students in the PLME to be a subculture on campus? Thanks a lot!</p>

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<p>acp357, PLME is NOT an accelerated medical program. It’s 4 yrs undergrad, 4 yrs med school. Same path as reg pre-med. PLMEs just have their med school acceptance already so don’t need to take MCATs or do applications. Same classes as Brown non PLME pre-meds.</p>