Bryn Mawr vs. Denison Univeristy vs. College of William&Mary

<p>I am choosing between these three colleges and Denison offers me a scholarship of $36,000.
I cannot make a decision.
Please give me some advice!
Thanks a lot!!!</p>

<p>What do you want to do? Major? Do you plan to go to grad school? How valuable is money to your family? </p>

<p>Clearly these other 2 are more East Coast “prestige.”</p>

<p>The bottom line here is really 2 things, imo:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Can you and your ego “stand” not attending one of these 2? Said more positively, “Can you live with telling people for the rest of your life, 'I got into BM and WM but got a full tuition ride to Denison. And it was the best decision we ever made because it got me into the grad school program and places I wanted, and it’s one of the most beautiful campuses on the planet.”</p></li>
<li><p>Can you afford to decline it? Said a more painful way, assuming as in most cases these 2 will provide minimal if any merit money for “just one more great student. ho hum”, can you decimate your parents estate and retirement funds by an additional $150,000 that I might have temporary bragging rights. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Trust me on this one … those stickers of your institution that ma and pa put on the back of the SUV or whatever they drive? They wear out after one or two, and they are not replaced. </p>

<p>Absent one issue … the expense and money are of no real consequence, in which case do whatever theirs and your hearts’ desire. Good luck. </p>

<p>But one thing can be guaranteed … you would never regret the educational value AND recognition Denison will bring. Just because most folks are totally ignorant of the institution and its reputation … hey, it is in Ohio! … means nothing in the total scheme of your life. </p>

<p>Now, IF money is valuable to yoru family? Then it’s time to make the obvious decision. And move on and have a ball on the Hill.</p>

<p>Two straggling but not insignificant items for your consideration:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>While many are seduced and deluded by the infamous “rankings” of USNWR, Fisk, The Princeton Review, Kiplingers, Washington Post, and Ad Naseum (getting any ideas about the mere “fact” that there are so many of these listings and so different???), there is not a single shred of evidence that any of these is better … or worse than either of the other 2. They use the same or similar texts, offer the same or similar courses and off-campus diversions, have similar social entities and experiences available, all play in the same athletic league and at the same divison/level. My point is that no matter who tells you what, higher education for all its merits has not one single clue on measuring quality beyond two approaches, one of which is totally improbable and costly. Value addedness in its educational process, i.e. the “change” factor of the collective student body is the ultimate measure that literally no institution uses. The other which some DO attempt to utilize is not outcomes, but rather the simple issue of … how do students spend their time? Doing what and where? In fact, it could well be that Podunk Community College does a vastly superior job than Poison Ivy U. The point remains. None can rightly or legitimately proclaim, "We’re bettern Denison or Mary&Bill or … " They simply imply and infer such, allowing our egoes to run away with “truth.” </p></li>
<li><p>Most agree, especially among th professions where academic credentials trump actual performance, that GRADUATE schooling is where “it’s at.” Academe is mostly concerned with “where’d you get your Ph.D.?” “Who’d you study with?” “What have you published?” In law and medicine, againg it is “What law school?” “What med school?”
You get the point. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Now the real point … IF money has potential limitations and may be cause for stress and strain for you and your family AND you are considering a career in which graduate school pedigree trumps undergrad, then work hard, and save your scheckels for grad school For in most of the above (the academic disciplines like history, soci, psych, education, etc. being the exceptions) there are few and no merit aid awards available. Only mountains and mountains of LOANS that must be paid back. :eek:</p>

<p>:cool:</p>

<p>I am undecided as a freshman and I am definitely going to grad school…</p>

<p>working thru a similar situation in that we (my wife & I) are in the midst of helping our d choose between Denison and this is where we differ from you, her other finalist is Ohio State. We visited Denison last Friday and Ohio State today and she’s very confused. Both are great options but in our case, as you might expect Ohio State is a little easier on the wallet, d has been accepted there with scholarship in their Honors program (she was awarded a Founders ship at Denison). At both schools she would have nice on campus peers, at Denison they’re really good friends but upperclassman and at tOSU highschool classmates…she sees huge benefits in both scenarios. Ohio State Columbus campus is a really neat place as is Dension & Granville…just 30-40 miles seperate them but they’re worlds apart for the day to day student. And while Denison might be small in student enrollment I found out quickly Friday if not anyhting else, Denison is not small. They think, act and therefore are big…I left there knowing if my d chooses Denison she will have every opportunity to succeed and fulfill her dreams…maybe even stumble across new dreams & direction as she would be immersed in a liberal arts education. Ohio State is no slouch academically and offers her the opportunity to go down an engineering path if her current direction, biological sciences doesn’t work our as she hopes. That is probably our largest hurdle at the moment but as the other poster writes the next 4 years is just the start of the education process for you, my d and a lot of your 2016 peers…all I can offer is what I just told my d about Denison…academically it’s a no brainer-I’m confident you’ll get as good of an education at Denison as anywhere you applied and she was accepted by 1 of her reach schools (that opportunity turned out to be a real reach financially speaking though weighing in at $250,000 for 4 years.) Find the school that best suits you of those 3 but don’t worry whether Dension stacks up…they do.</p>

<p>

So that is not a significant factor. See points 1 - 4, do 3 things:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Cease looking for some “silver bullet” that is going to give you an “uh huh” moment. It’s not forthcoming.</p></li>
<li><p>See points 1-4 and additional counsel and make your own decision. It’s time. You must. Part of the process. </p></li>
<li><p>Good luck. It’ll be fine. You can and will attend any of these and be fine. Remember, there are millions of kids your age starving for a crust of bread this night. A clean cup of water. Quit messing around on CC, complete your analysis, inform your fiduciary parents (or whoever your benefactors may be), and let the collegiate winner and the runners-up know your decision. There is no epiphany this side of Heaven forthcoming.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Now, proceed to “Go!” and prepare to pay. Although it’d be substantially less for each of the ensuing 8 checks IF you pick Denison.</p>

<p>btw, my own POV is that rekkav’s counsel is solid and insightful … however that scenario is 180 degrees different. OSU and DU are like apples and oranges. The experiences could hardly be more different. I don’t offer that as an elitist either. I’ve attended and served at both types of institutions and each has its pluses and minuses. But the comparison is not at all subtle or perceptual in that one. These 2 products could hardly be more different. It’s like saying do you want spaghetti … or chocolate souffle? A popcicle or a club salad. Both are wonderful, nourishing. But not really competing for one’s palate. Same with OSU and DU. The primary similarity is simply that students get a diploma. But those diplomas represent vastly disparate menus, consumptions, and dining experiences. And bills. btw, regarding the “bill” always look at the net cost, after all the discount coupons have been applied. </p>

<p>We found DU to be amazingly, vastly less than our OSU. That one was a no brainer from there.</p>

<p>While I certainly agree that money and prestige are important, if I were you I would focus on where you will “fit”. I have been to all three schools and they are very different: an all girls school with NE vibe in the suburbs of Philly, a public ivy in Virginia right in the middle of a tourist area, and an historically preppy liberal arts college (trying to change its image by attracting students with a very healthy endowment) in quaint small town. If all possible I would try to spend a night at each although that may not be possible. BM is all women and William and Mary is a public university smack in the middle of one of americas greatest tourist communities surrounding by an area with a southern vibe. BM is suburban Philadephia and has a definite NE feel in its student body. A key stat you might look at is what percentage of the girls belong to sororities. Denison has no houses but with 60% in sororities it has a definte influence. BM has no sororities but is all girls. I think WM is roughly 25%. I am fairly neutral on sororities and they certainly can be a good way to meet friends at a large state school. The downside is they tend to segment students, can often focus on parties and social events which are fine if that is what you want to do. I would also try to get a sense of tolerance for LGBT and minority students even if you arent one. You need to feel comfortable where ever you go and feel like there are people who share your interests and values. If you wind up at a school that doesnt it can be very tough and lonely especially if you are far from home. Good luck</p>

<p>A really difficult decision…</p>

<p>cindyhua- as I’ve previosuly posted… I have a d experiencing similar stress…1 thing I didn’t mention in my last post… a week ago today we got to meet part of the Denison Class of 2016 and watch & listen to them introduce themseves to each other…I think 85 admitted students we in attendance . Whatever potion of those 85 attending Denison are going to make for interesting classmates…that’s 1 of the things I’m highlighting to my d. “you’ve seen and heard from some of your future classmates”. She’s not had that chance elsewhere although she did see classmates at an OSU Honors admitted event but there were too many kids to have them all introduce themselves to each other in quick fashion. </p>

<p>WP- since you’re obviously an academia insider how would you address my d’s concern of h about if her current passion, studying science looking to a health care career, goes sour she would have an engineering path at tOSU. She’s an outstanding math and science student and will most certainly end up on 1 of these paths although her current literature teacher is trying to encourage to explore an English path.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The decision is a great blessing. Most in the world don’t have chance for one. Get a grip, girls.</p></li>
<li><p>Either way, if engineering comes into play, she’s looking at extra time. DU has specific 3-2 programs, but if she’s as good as you claim in math and science, she can transfer into far superior engineering schools than OSU after 2 years at DU. The time’s no difference. </p></li>
<li><p>The decision between an OSU-type and DU-place is so basic it doesn’t merit much discussion imo. That’s so fundamental, the parties (parents, student, school) need to make that and go from there.</p></li>
<li><p>Do not assume OSU is net cheaper than DU. Twas not for ours. Not even close, amazingly.</p></li>
<li><p>The notion of “fit” gets lots of popular play. But beyond the identifiable, measureable characteristics already noted here, it’s simply feeling. No more, no less. I’m awfully glad to have had my first love, and my 10th. But I’m even more thankful I didn’t end up marrying either one. Nor a bunch in between and there after. That’s what “fit” is. Like a right-sized sweat-shirt, some of the ugliest become the most favored, cherished, and best “fit.” Fit is mostly how it feels after it’s been tried on and worn awhile. And it’s the great asset of youth, i.e. “fit” is flexible. Need immediate proof? Ask the student who thinks she might be just as happy at OSU as DU. That’s proof! So much for “fit.”</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Decision day here, looks like she will be a Denisonian.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Is the number really that high?</p>

<p>According to USNews it’s < 30% in sororities. [Denison</a> University | Best College | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/denison-university-3042]Denison”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/denison-university-3042)</p>

<p>And all sororities do have houses. However, they are not residential. Conversely, frats no longer have houses, only meeting rooms in what were once live-in fraternity houses and now are mostly special interest.</p>

<p>This student view from another site sums it up well:</p>

<p>Both guys and girls will show a proud allegiance to their house. Roughly half of the campus is Greek, and nightlife reflects this. There is not a lot of pressure on non-Greek students to join, but it will be demanding for those in the system. While joining a frat or a sorority may not be a necessity for having a good time, the social scene is intensely Greek, and some people who are not Greek may find themselves bored on a Saturday night. Most of the big parties on campus are Greek events, and they have parties multiple times during the week. Sororities, especially, will organize many campus events, such as Delta Gamma’s Anchor Splash. Overall, whether or not you choose to get involved in Greek life, the amount of attention you pay to the Greeks is up to you.</p>

<p>It seems that Denison has a lot of alcohol and drugs…I am a little afraid of this.</p>

<p>Unfortunately alcohol and drugs are an issue at almost any college in America with the exception of some strict church affiliated schools. Its really more a relative thing. I have a friend whose daughter who went to a prestigious ivy league school and it was a huge problem.</p>

How does your daughter like Denison? The decisions for Class of 2019 are being mailed out today.