<p>I've been accepted to six colleges and have narrowed down my choices to these two. What are the advantages of each? Disadvantages? I'm currently leaning towards Smith, but any information about either of the colleges would be a great help.</p>
<p>I'm planning on majoring in East Asian Studies, and perhaps minoring in Psychology, English, Government, or IR.</p>
<p>(cross-posted to Bryn Mawr and College Selection)</p>
<p>Smith is about twice the size, making for more social and academic choices. Bryn Mawr has Haverford, Smith has the others of the Five Colleges.</p>
<p>D didn't apply to BM because of size; she also preferred the NoHo location.</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr also is part of the tri co consortium; you can take classes at Swarthmore; and at U Penn as well. Bryn Mawr is 20 min away from Philadelphia. Both are outstanding institutions, you can't go wrong.</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr is much smaller, and shares some departments with Haverford. Also, they have an honor code that prohibits students from talking about their grades. While both of these are advantages to some, both were off-putting to me.</p>
<p>Thank you for everyone's input. I already know many of these things, having researched both schools extensively. I guess I should have posted this originally, but what I'm looking for are things you wouldn't read in any college handbooks (ie, so-and-so went here and liked this, so-and-so didn't like ___, etc.)</p>
<p>Well, my D is so enthusiastic about her experience--an enthusiasm that has rubbed off on me heavily along the way--that it's almost a case of where to begin?</p>
<p>D likes virtually everything: academics, profs, social, location, EC's.</p>
<p>The biggest negative: the amount of PC is sometimes eye-rolling in its magnitude...she generally ignores it when she disagrees with it.</p>
<p>A concern before applying: would the heavy lesbian presence make a straight girl feel uncomfortable. Two overnights and almost two years later, the answer is a decided "No problem." </p>
<p>Another question was whether NoHo was big enough for this city kid: again, "No problem."</p>
<p>There's a lot to like there. Alas, she'll be off campus for all of her junior year except for a couple of visits: Summer/Fall in D.C., Spring in Budapest. A friend of hers is splitting this year between Rome and Oxford. Gosh but life is rough.</p>
<p>{{A concern before applying: would the heavy lesbian presence make a straight girl feel uncomfortable}}</p>
<p>Maybe where you daughter lives there is a heavy lesbian presence, but within the entire Smith community the lesbians are a minority, albeit a vocal one. Want to live with mostly straight women? No problem, live in the quad.</p>
<p>Fer kirst sake, San Francisco has a vocal minority gay population, but no one would say dont visit or live in San Francisco if gays make you uncomfortable. </p>
<p>College is an opportunity to grow, meet and interact with other students unlike yourself ( its call diversity) and learn to respect them for who they are, gay, straight, Black, Latino, Chinese etc. etc.</p>
<p>There will be aspects of every campus that will make some uncomfortable, the frat scene at Dartmouth, Vandy, Wake etc, binge drinking and fecal throwing drunks at Williams, Birkenstock wearing, tree hugging students at Bates, etc. </p>
<p>No school is perfect or has perfect students. College isnt Lake Wobegon</p>
<p>When considering Smith, look at all the positive, wonderful women who may be just like you, straight or gay, or are very much the same as the friends youre leaving behind from h/s. And most importantly, consider the amazing opportunities Smith has to offer, in and out of the classroom.</p>
<p>And if a few Smithies arent of your bent, fine!! Ignoreem. Youre not obliged to be friends with every damn student.</p>
<p>RLT, I think you've managed to misread my post.</p>
<p>Some people suggested that my D wouldn't be comfortable, that Smith made straight girls feel uncomfortable. She exercised due diligence and found that wasn't so. She checked it out as one might check out any other pro and con.</p>
<p>And so??!</p>
<p>I live in PA, near Bryn Mawr, and have a D who is a senior at Smith.</p>
<p>True, one major difference between the two schools is size. Smith is small enough for nurturing and lots of personal attention, but large enough to never feel claustrophobic, IMO.</p>
<p>As for the consortium, I do think that the Bryn Mawr/Haverford partnership is much more convenient than what you can do from Smith to any of the other "Five Colleges." Haverford is on the same road as Bryn Mawr, just over a mile away. Bus and commuter train access is easy - heck, it could be a nice walk on a sunny day!! </p>
<p>Students at Bryn Mawr can even request dorming at Haverford, I think. (I believe that at least was the case once, don't see reference to it now.) Many EC activities (from rugby teams to choral groups) are joint. </p>
<p>The area is lovely but the towns of Bryn Mawr and Haverford, both on Philadelpia's "Main Line," are nowhere near as funky/artsy/happening as Northampton. Yes, Bryn Mawr has a good movie theater, coffee houses, etc., but it is mainly an upscale suburban community.</p>
<p>Swarthmore is a wonderful and beautiful school but not quite as geographically convenient as Haverford -- would have to rely on a shuttle bus, I imagine. </p>
<p>I would not think it would be very practical timewise to take classes at U Penn that meet three times a week -- a once-a-week seminar, sure. For weekend activities, on the other hand, the access to Philly (again, easy by train) is excellent. </p>
<p>Re weather, we here is southeastern PA enjoy a longer fall and an earlier spring, but MA has its special prolonged winter charms. You can ice skate on the pond at Smith!!</p>
<p>Either choice is excellent. I would decide on the basis of opportunities for your major and personal overnight visits. </p>
<p>P.S. to RLT :
TheDad is no homophobe -- quite the contrary, I am sure. He simply does not fear addressing a sensitive topic.</p>
<p>S. to RLT:
TheDad is no homophobe -- quite the contrary, I am sure. He simply does not fear addressing a sensitive}}
topic.}}</p>
<p>Where did you get the idea I thought that? </p>
<p>The /last thing/ I believe is TD is a homophobe. I mean that seriously . Although he may believe some Republicans are as bad as Hitler-lol --but thats another issue entirely.</p>
<p>I was reacting to the fact he keeps saying "Would the heavy lesbian presence make a straight girl feel uncomfortable?"</p>
<p>There isn't a HEAVY lesbian presence. As I said, there may be where his daughter lives but were speaking of the entire student population, not one housing area. </p>
<p>I actually get upset if prospective students <em>arent</em> told about the gay, as well as other issues, only to find out too late. It has happened. A poor kid came from a small rural community on the other side of the country arrived at Smith and was never told what to expect. So far it has worked out kind of ok, but, for a time ..</p>
<p>My point was, without the ability to discuss the issue face to face, using the words <em>heavy presence</em> on a message board is giving a misrepresentation of the facts and could very likely dissuade a student from even giving Smith an initial look or from including Smith in their visits to the area. Smith has a large cross-application pool with Holyoke, Wellesley and to some degree Amherst and Hampshire</p>
<p>Id hate to see a woman come to visit Holyoke,/Amherst/Hampshire and bypass Smith because of a false preconceived idea. Theres enough chatter on the other womens boards Smith has a much higher lesbian population than, say, Wellesley. There is no proof of that, nor is there any point of adding to others perceptions or giving an incorrect verification of an opinion by using the phrase in question, thats all. </p>
<p>No big deal. Different interpenetration of the meaning between heavy and vocal maybe?</p>
<p>My other point was, even if youre a little uncomfortable around lesbians should that mean crossing Smith off your list of possible college choices? Of course not-- any more than one would cross San Francisco off their list of possible places to live because of that cities reputation. Nor should a man cross Vassar/Yale, et al, off their list because they might be uncomfortable around gay men.</p>
<p>I would rather have a woman, even if she is somewhat apprehensive about lesbians, arrive at Smith and get a real <em>feel</em> for the college before tossing the college in the trash heap. </p>
<p>Reasonable people, even most Republicans, adapt and become accepting very quickly. Who knows, the woman visiting on a Sat morning who could never picture herself as much as talking to a lesbian, is having dinner with lesbian students by that night and considers them <em>great a new friends</em>.
That has happened as well. :)</p>
<p>I love Smith. Its a beautiful place with fantastic facilities. The professors are wonderful and very available for one on one help. The problem for most people is lack of time to get involved in all of the intellectual and social opportunities that are available.</p>
<p>Noho is a five minute walk and is a really cool and funky little town. Boston is a couple of hours away. It isn't really all that convenient to go there for the day. Not impossible, but your best bet is if you know someone at a college there and can stay for the week-end. I've done that a couple of times. I've also been to New York a couple of times on trips with the Art and Drama Department. </p>
<p>Whether there is a heavy lesbian influence, I guess thats in the eyes of the beholder. Ive seen lots of numerical estimates although no one knows for certain of course. Based on the women I know from a cross section of houses, my guess is about 35 40% gay or bi and another 5 10 % or so who are LUG (lesbian until graduation). My gestimate could be high or low, but probably pretty close. The point is that its largely a non-issue just as TDs daughter discovered most people dont care one way or the other, although I know a few who do. My guess is that most people who would feel really uncomfortable with it dont come after visiting (if they visit) and seeing girls making out on Chapin lawn (among other places). Ive never felt uncomfortable. From what I can tell, there are just as many lesbians in the quad as there are in any other house gay people like to party too.</p>
<p>I was worried about having to be overly PC, but that turned out to be a non-issue as well. I just decided to be myself and that seems to be good enough for most people. :-)</p>
<p>Things I dont like? Nothing major to complain about. The library is only open until midnight. The athletic facilities close around 6:00 on Friday Sunday. Massachusetts is cooooold in the winter and hot and humid in the Fall and late Spring. I wouldn't want to stay here during the summer. I'm a "weather wimp."</p>
<p>my guess is about 35 40% gay or bi and another 5 10 % or so who are LUG (lesbian until graduation). }}}</p>
<p>Let me get this straight, you're saying at least 40% minimum, but possibly half or more of the women are sleeping with other women sometime during their 4 years? Incredible. If Ive been misinformed by current students plus things have changed that much since my wife and many of our friends attended Smith and youre correct, then I would say I owe TD an apology.</p>
<p>Getting back to Bryn Mawr vs. Smith, there are gay women at Bryn Mawr, too. And with 2600 women at Smith, my daughter felt that even if 1/3 were gay (the estimate her friend who attends Smith now gave her) there'd be 1800 straight women. Bryn Mawr has 1300 total students.</p>
<p>Well, MoS, it should also be pointed out that there are many many friendships and social relations that cross the gay/bi/straight lines, so even numbers is a non-issue compared to the prospect of what the envrionment feels like. See below.</p>
<p>RLT, I framed the issue as I did because a) it's a question that arises for many prospective students based on what they hear: Smith is one of the most aggressively friendly-to-gay campuses around. And b) some students arrive without a clue and then may encounter a couple making out on Chapin lawn or some other telltale (or, in the words of a friend of my D's who hails from one of the Deep South states...I <em>thought</em> I was liberal until I came here) and then are genuinely taken aback...whups, poor choice of words, make that "startled." And c) the 1/3 gay figure seems to be fairly accurate though surveys have been all over the map with the lowest figure being 20 percent and as high as 40 percent; my D's house, however, is about 50 percent. </p>
<p>In light of a/b/c, it doesn't strike me as paranoid or insensitive to wonder, "is there going to be a role reversal and am I going to be made to feel like a second-class citizen because I'm not gay" or "am I going to not be respected for who I am and get unwelcome advances" (many fewer problems in either regard than at most co-ed colleges).</p>
<p>The "gay" issue is probably magnified because anecdotally there seems to be more, ah, relationship drama on campus on that side of the fence, making the gay presence feel larger than it generally is.</p>
<p>Laurel, thanks for posting here...would be great to see you more often.
I'm glad that Smith and you connected. :)</p>
<p>{{I framed the issue as I did because and b) some students arrive without a clue and then may encounter a couple making out on Chapin lawn or some other telltale}}</p>
<p>Im going to say this one last time, I have <em>no</em> problem bringing up the gay issue and categorically said I get upset when students <em>arent</em> informed of the issues at Smith. </p>
<p>My concern was with how many prospective students would react to the phrase heavy lesbian presence. If 20-33% of the students are gay, the same numbers that have been tossed around for generations, that, in my estimation, is not a heavy influence.<br>
However, youre very correct, an influence to be seriously considered before applying to Smith </p>
<p>It might just as well be phrased as MoS so eloquently stated And with 2600 women at Smith, my daughter felt that even if 1/3 were gay (the estimate her friend who attends Smith now gave her) there'd be 1800 straight women</p>
<p>Lets just agree to disagree on our choice of words and leave it at that. :)</p>
<p>{{it doesn't strike me as paranoid or insensitive to wonder, "is there going to be a role reversal and am I going to be made to feel like a second-class citizen because I'm not gay"}}</p>
<p>Never, when discussing Smith with my daughter, and others, was anything remotely close to that question asked by her or any student with relation to the gay issues associated with attending Smith. Do you honestly believe a 16-17 yr old woman (who is very much still a kid) is going to be psychology intuitive enough to come up with a thought like that? Or is that a parents concern, and a legitimate one at that? :)</p>
<p>psychology intuitive}</p>
<p>oppss. Better fix it before TD does :) Psychologically intuitive--- need to re-read my posts better</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the info. :) I don't have any problems with the sexuality of my classmates, but still, it's nice to hear the info/common concerns/whatever.</p>
<p>RLT, fwiw, I've had both several prospective students <em>and</em> several parents ask questions along those lines. If the parent was asking, sometimes the student was right there, listening intently to the answer. (I can't think of a student that has asked me with POS, just solo.) I think "heavy influence" is appropriate in context to the degree that GBLT issues inform Smith social discourse and social life compared to a typical LAC.</p>
<p>Fwiw, my D was the first to pose the question, based on other comments she had received. But she's been far far from the last. </p>
<p>As for the parents, if I can set their minds at ease along a course their D's are already inclined to follow, I figure I'm doing Good.</p>
<p>It occurs to me that some of the concerns are elliptically worded. I have this habit of cutting Gordion knots and I usually take the nodding of the heads to indicate that I have indeed understood what they were asking; it seldom occurs to me that they're falling asleep.</p>
<p>Smith is funny here on the West Coast. Some folks regard it highly. Probably a majority haven't heard of it. And, put it this way, when D was admitted to Smith, a lot of "concerned" adults sidled up and asked, "Aren't there a lot of lesbians there?" It was bad enough that I considered printing up a small card to hand out that said, "1. Yes. 2. We know. 3. She's not. (sometimes an implicated question) 4. It's not a big deal."</p>
<p>I would worry about smog much more at CMC than I would at USC. I have other concerns about USC and in general would take CMC or Scripps over it, majoring in Film being one major exception. But my prejudices on the subject are well established on this board.</p>
<p>So, RLT: you're from the Northeast, implying that you're not there and in fact there's a "west of the Mississippi" outlook to back East suffusing your posts. Other posts suggest that you're not West Coast either. I suppose you could be in the South but your posting pattern would then mark you as a night owl. Arizona? New Mexico? Colorado? Idaho? Yes, I've watched waay too many episodes of "Mystery."</p>
<p>Now that's interesting: the post that I was responding to just disappeared.</p>
<p>And now it's appeared again <em>after</em> my post. Kierkegaard was right. Or maybe it was Einstein after all.</p>
<p>RLT, fwiw, I've had both several prospective students <em>and</em> several parents ask questions along those lines.}}</p>
<p>Twenty five ++ years of being associated with Smith and neither my wife nor I have ever had the question asked. I guess people in Calif. think differently from those in the areas we have lived/live</p>
<p>Theres most likely something to that considering were both from the Northeast. No secret there. Students or parents we speak to where we live, or I get PMs from, apparently know much more about the eastern LACs than those in your area.</p>
<p>I imagine if an easterner was researching Harvey Mudd, Scripps, CMC, etc., they would have a very different set of questions and concerns than someone living in Calif. </p>
<p>I read a concern/question from a student living in the east that he had heard the smog would be horrendous if he attended USC. Im sure no one in Calif would ask such a silly question.</p>
<p>{{I figure I'm doing Good.}}</p>
<p>I'd say so for your area. Keep up the good work.</p>