<p>I think that the problem with choosing a professional-track major is that, when applying for medical schools, the adcoms will look at the application and say "well the person got his/her bachelor’s in nursing…why aren’t they practicing nursing? It’s one thing to go into nursing for a few years, decide you want to do medicine, and then apply. But it’s the same as if someone went into physical therapy or speech therapy, because it is focused to one occupation already. I think nursing is extremely demanding and I have a high respect for people that choose to become nurses. But by the same token, it would look a little off if someone went through medical school and then applied for a nursing program. I’m positive that people can get in to medical school with pre-professional majors, but it just brings up an opportunity for an adcom to not understand why you want to go to medical school specifically, which is one of the most important questions of the interview process: “Why do you want to be a medical doctor as opposed to a nurse, PA, pharmacist, etc.?”</p>
<p>for aglages: I’m currently in my MS2 year, and I am a resident assistant at the undergraduate campus. 2 of my other classmates are doing the same, and most of the rest of our class, and others, cannot believe that we are doing this to ourselves. I can tell you that just as an RA, I have spread myself so thin over the last 2 years, but that’s the only reasonable way I can see to not have to pay for housing. There is ZERO TIME for any other type of job, especially since while in medical school you want to join different organizations, do research, and study for the USMLE to prepare your application for residency. Maybe there’s a student opportunity to work at the school library, where you’d be able to study at the same time, but with the exception of jobs like those, DON’T DO IT!</p>
Where did you get the idea he was getting sound advice from an advisor?</p>
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Well, it certainly can. But that still doesn’t make it advisable. Who said that BTW?</p>
<p>And a final thought…for now…did y’all look at those MCAT scores on the graph for Specialized Health Professions? Yuck. </p>
<p>The MCAT is not like any other standardized test, especially high school tests. It’s a different kinda bird.</p>
<p>Your son needs to get to a pre-med advisor. Pronto. Pre-med is, at its essence, about getting into med-school. He doesn’t need to make it harder on himself than it needs to be. I wish him luck, but more than that…he needs to see somebody who can help him make good choices.</p>
<p>Oh, (final edit…I hope) and I’m not anti-nursing (sister) or OT (sister in law) or any other health field. I believe they are all valuable.</p>
<p>Statistics show that specialized health sciences majors do substantially worse than other majors. The difference in MCAT score b/w a history major and a bio major? Negligible. The difference in MCAT score b/w an exercise science major and a bio major? Huge. Either the quality of students isn’t up to par or the curriculum isn’t a good preparation for med school. Either way, you should avoid these majors if you would like to attend med school at some point in the future.</p>
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<p>The vast majority (98%+) do not hold any jobs. It’s incredibly stupid to pay $60,000 a year for med school and then spend 30 hours out of your week earning $13/hr. Use those 30 hours and get good grades. It will pay off much better in the long run.</p>
<p>Medical schools are interested in students who can think. They aren’t interested in knowledge or skills. Otherwise, they’d make every premed take anatomy and physiology and an EMT course before entering med school. In fact, no med school in the country expects you to know ANY anatomy or how to take a blood pressure. They aren’t interested in that. They don’t care if you know how to draw blood. Skills are something med schools can teach. The ability to critically think is more inherent. That’s something someone in a vocational major has less of a chance to demonstrate.</p>
<p>^That’s my politically correct answer.</p>
<p>The real answer is that, after years of working with nurses, doctors probably develop biases and assumptions about the kind of student who was or wants to become a nurse. It’s just natural that once you start looking at people a certain way, it’s difficult to think about them any other way.</p>
<p>ncg, and others in med school…how many nursing majors do you know in your med school classes? I looked at my D’s view-book and I don’t remember seeing any in her whole (admittedly small and research intensive) school. I do know of a PharmD.</p>
<p>My guess is that other research intensive schools are similar, while maybe the few kids getting in to med school with nursing degrees are attending heavy Primary Care schools.</p>
<p>"Help me out with the definition of “time-intensive”. Are you suggesting that Med students do not work at all or that they only work at mindless part-time jobs? Certainly part-time nursing should pay well enough to decrease the number of work hours needed to generate the same amount of income as a clerk / fast food worker receives. What are the part-time job prospects for grads of the “traditional” pre-med majors such as biology/chemistry? "</p>
<p>My daughter worked part time as an undergraduate but has absolutely no time to work in med school so far. She also doesn’t know anybody else who is working.</p>
<p>No one in my graduating class was a pre-nursing major. Most research oriented med schools draw the majority of their students from research oriented undergrads. These research oriented undergrads, for the most part, don’t have pre-nursing, pre-med, pre-law, pre-pharm, exercise science, or even business majors. Nation-wide business is the most popular college major. But, it’s not offered at 6 out of the 8 Ivy League schools. Top colleges regard their mission as teaching students how to think and theorize. Hence, teaching students how to crunch a spreadsheet or read a medication label is beneath them. These same snobby academics also populate medical schools.</p>
<p>I know of no nursing majors in my class. There’s someone in the class below me who has a master’s in social work, but he worked for a number of years before deciding to apply for medical school.</p>
<p>There are always exceptions. But, the following link had some discouraging data for nursing students. It is 10 years old. So, do not take it too seriously. </p>
<p>I think that curm’s table does indicate a possible reason for the low nursing acceptance rate though. The MCAT average for specialized health sciences (SHS) applicants appears to be 2.4 points lower than the total average. Yet, the matriculants’ MCAT average for SHS is only 1.3 points lower than the total average. If MCAT is the most critical indicator, the difference could reflect the low % for the acceptance rate for SHS students because a larger % of them would be weeded out because of MCAT. Perhaps, too many SHS students with low MCAT scores are entering into the competition. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, the probability of acceptance is greater for a SHS student with MCAT of 31 than for a math student with the same MCAT score. Did I miss something here?</p>
<p>I do not know what AAMC considers in their “other” category or in the category containing nursing. My gut tells me that nursing is among the more vocational and less academic disciplines in the Specialized Health category. I know the PharmD kid at my D’s school is very impressive. I’ll search and see what I can find.</p>
<p>Ace, what drew the “yuck” from me was that 25 mean MCAT for Specialized Health applicants and the difference between their matriculant mean and their applicant mean. But I guess folks can read stats anyway they want but to me , that chart looks pretty dang grim for nursing majors.</p>
<p>OP, I suggest you avoid falling into the trap of asking for advice but ignoring all except that which confirms your own biases. In other words, don’t take the words of just one or two people as gospel because it’s what you want to hear, even though everybody else (including people who’ve been there or are currently in med school) disagrees. Otherwise, there’s no point to coming onto a forum and asking a question in the first place.</p>
<p>I am a nurse and have been 30 years. I don’t advocate using a nursing major as a back up to for med school. Nursing and Medicine are two completely different professions. Different mind-sets, different philosophies, different all kinds of ways. It is a very time intensive major and not easy. Depending upon the university, the science classes may or may not be the same as the pre-med majors. No matter what, the nursing majors do not take all the science classes the pre meds take anyways. Especially a full year of organic and physics. So somewhere or other, those classes have to be fit in. </p>
<p>I know of nurses who have gone on to med school. My former PMD was an RN. I currently work with a great hospitalist that was an RN. I had two co-workers go to med school and from what I have heard, they are happy. I used to teach at a BSN program and I have had former students go on to med school. It does happen. Nurses can become doctors. BUT, and this is important, all of them worked for a number of years before making this decision. No one that I know ever went straight into med school. </p>
<p>I don’t see how a med student can work as an RN either. When does a med student have time to work? DS is a first year med student and he does not have time. Studies are intensive and he is expected to volunteer. He volunteers in clinics, he is taking medical Spanish speaking classes, goes out into the community and volunteers in underserved areas, etc… Now he is also looking at trying to find a research lab to spend time in. He is so darn busy. He could not work. Everything he is doing is geared towards his medical education and that is how it should be. </p>
<p>Being an RN is not easy. Hours can be long. Most hospital jobs are 12 or 13 hours shifts. Office jobs are 8-10 hour days. Weekends and holidays are the norm. I have never heard of any 4 or 6 hour shifts an RN can work, anywhere. If they exist, I wish I knew about them so I could work them!</p>
<p>There are other options for OP too. If OP’s child becomes a nurse and is still interested in medicine, then I would tell him to go ahead and pursue it. It may mean going to school part time while he works to get all of his pre-med reqs done. He can work and save up money and use that to finance his med school education. Or he could decide to get further education and become an NP instead. I am an NP and I love my job. By the time he graduates from undergrad, most NP programs will be doctorate programs instead of Master’s. PA is also a consideration. So there are options out there.</p>