BS in nursing first

<p>My son is a pre-nursing major and wants to get his BS in nursing before going to medical school. What other courses should he take to help him get into medical school?</p>

<p>He should switch majors entirely. There are several reasons for this.</p>

<p>1) Medical schools prefer the perceived intellectual rigor of academic majors like biology or art history. Nursing is a vocational major and is perceived as lacking in the intellectual rigor that medical school adcoms believe medical students will encounter during their schooling. </p>

<p>2) It’s going to be hard for your son to come up with an acceptable explanation to the question, “If you wanted to be a doctor, why did you train to be a nurse?” </p>

<p>3) There’s a shortage of nurses in the workforce, and adcoms may be loath to take someone away from the nursing pool by admitting them to medical school.</p>

<p>The long and short of it is that being a physician and being a nurse are two very different things, and it’s not easy to go from one to the other. If your son knows now he wants to be a doctor, he needs to drop the nursing major ASAP.</p>

<p>Unless your son plans to take a couple years to work as a nurse it is not recommended to do a nursing degree.</p>

<p>Don’t forget – most majors do about equally well on the MCAT, except for “Specialized Health Sciences” like Nursing, who do much much worse.</p>

<p>My son is a very good student - he took all the math and science courses his small high school offered and passed most of them with A’s. Actually, he said that he was taking all those additional classes because he could get an easy A - he’s that smart. He wasn’t sure what to major in but finally decided on nursing. He is a freshman, doesn’t want to commit himself to med. school at this point, but wants to make sure he will have a job when he graduates. He is thinking about taking additional math and science classes on top of his required nursing classes to keep his options open and be ready to take MCAT. He has done well on all his standardized tests in high school and will probably do well on MCAT.</p>

<p>Nursing majors are for nurses. My point was an addendum to shades’ very comprehensive #2.</p>

<p>Also note that nursing classes are typically “easier” than a typical premed curriculum. Thus, A’s in the nursing classes will not be perceived as rigorous as A’s in the standard liberal arts curriculum (at least as perceived by grad schools).</p>

<p>Wow, such animosity toward a proposed nursing major. Seems strange since statistics have shown applicants with a wide variety of undergraduate majors get accepted into med school. I have to question the proposal that the “intellectual rigor” of majors like art history ??? could not be matched by a nursing curriculum. Ridiculous. Entry to nursing programs are very competitive. The curriculum is demanding. Six years ago my high stats daughter was advised by a reputable college counselor to pursue a BS in nursing as med school was something she thought might be in her future. My college roommate was a nursing major so I am quite familiar which what was expected of her academically and I, as a chemical engineering major, recognized how much work it took to succeed in nursing. She was a high school salutatorian and the val of her high school class also attended our alma mater for nursing (which is still a very high ranking nursing program). That val went on to med school and was the daughter of an MD. Her father apparently saw no problem with his daughter obtaining a BS in Nursing. (The med school aspirations were a negative when the outstanding senior nursing student was selected. The prior val was top academically but the award went to my roommate who was the top student who wanted a nursing career). Anecdotal , yes. But, there are many roads to med school for those who are motivated.
The statement that a medical admissions committee would dismiss the acceptance of a promising med school applicant because there is a shortage of nurses implies that such committees are quite shortsighted, don’t you think? As far as answering questions about why nursing if you want to be an MD, here are a few off the top of my head : Nursing provides an unique opportunity to experience first hand the day to day medical experience of a patient beyond what a doctor encounters in the exam room, operating room, and discussions with patients. A nursing degree provides a means of support if one needs to work and save towards med school costs. What patient wouldn’t prefer a doctor with a nursing background over one who majored in business, math, art history, engineering, etc? (This would not be an answer to use during a med school interview!) Doctors will be working with nurses for their entire careers; a nursing degree gives the doctor insight into how the nurses’ contributions will maximize positive patient outcomes.<br>
OP’s son sounds like a talented, driven young man. Let’s not squash plans and hopes with statements about MCAT scores and majors. After all, if you want to use that data, then the recommended majors should be math, humanities and social sciences. Having said that, there are several pre-med requirements that are not met with a nursing curriculum and the young man will have to plan carefully. He needs to see the pre-med advisor at his school now. Good luck to him!</p>

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<p>Depends on the college, but there can be little overlap between a premed curriculum and a nursing curriculum. Look at Emory or Boston College or Penn for examples. (Great four-year schools with a lot of premeds and a top-notch nursing school, but even Frosh Chem is different.) Thus, the short answer to the OP is for her son to take the typical Premed curriculum at his college, and not the ‘nursing science’ track.</p>

<p>Lets not forget that a BSN will also provide a viable careerer alternative if he decides either not to pursue Med school or doesn’t make it through. Not to mention the ability to actually earn money while in Med school. Not much hope of that for the typical undergrad “pre-med” major.</p>

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People don’t hold time-intensive jobs during medical school. </p>

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With the exception of specialized health sciences like nursing, which do get in sometimes but are literally the only category of major which is at a disadvantage.</p>

<p>Nobody says nursing isn’t hard. But it isn’t a pre-professional-school, academic-track program. And medical schools frown on that.</p>

<p>Interesting point of view from a medical school dean:
[School</a> of Nursing: PreMed Nursing Track](<a href=“http://www.creighton.edu/nursing/programs/traditionalprogram/premednursingtrack/index.php]School”>http://www.creighton.edu/nursing/programs/traditionalprogram/premednursingtrack/index.php)</p>

<p>"Letter from the Assistant Dean for Medical Admissions </p>

<p>Choosing Nursing as a Major for Premedical Study</p>

<p>What major should one choose as a premedical undergraduate student? This question - a very important one - should be thought over very carefully as one embarks on college study. To some, it’s a no-brainer. Why think it over at all? After all, medicine is largely the study of human biology and pathology. That given, a major in biology is a ‘given’ to many. </p>

<p>It is true that over half of the students in Creighton Medical School have majored in biology or closely related field. But that leaves all the others - the 40% who chose other majors many of which are non-science. </p>

<p>An area of study that is becoming of more interest to premedical students is nursing. Nursing, a profession integrally linked with the practice of medicine, has undergone profound changes in the last half of the twentieth century. Today, nurses who achieve the bachelor’s degree take a well-rounded, challenging curriculum in the arts and sciences, as well as courses that prepare one for patient care. They emerge not only as professionals in one of the caring, healing arts, but also as practitioners of a profession that is increasingly science-based. </p>

<p>Is nursing the best major for a premed? Should it be your top selection? Only you are the one in the best position to decide. It is safe to say that if you are attracted to nursing for the right reasons, those reasons also are valid for the study of medicine. </p>

<p>Do nurses make good doctors? The answer is many times, yes, just as it is true that many biology, chemistry or even philosophy majors make good doctors. Becoming a physician requires the proper motivation, humanity, empathy, compassion, a solid work ethic, effective time management skills, a good intellect, all proved through four years of superb academic achievement. </p>

<p>One can apply those same requirements to the study of nursing. Thus, one can say “nurses make good doctors.” I encourage you to look carefully at all the options open to you when you select your are of premedical studies, and don’t overlook nursing. </p>

<p>Henry Nipper, PhD
Assistant Dean for Medical School"</p>

<p>Apparently, Georgetown also encourages pre-meds interested in nursing:</p>

<p>[Pre-Med</a> at Georgetown University - School of Nursing & Health Studies](<a href=“http://nhs.georgetown.edu/students/premed/]Pre-Med”>http://nhs.georgetown.edu/students/premed/)</p>

<p>"Every major at Georgetown University School of Nursing & Health Studies - health care management & policy, human science, international health, and nursing - may complete the pre-med curriculum.
Typical requirements, including for pre-med, pre-dent, and pre-PT, are below.</p>

<p>The years in which they are usually taken are in parentheses.</p>

<p>•1 year of Biology (first year)
•1 year of General Chemistry (first year)
•1 year of Organic Chemistry (sophomore year)
•1 year of Physics (junior year)
•1 year of Math (first year or sophomore year)
•1 semester of Calculus
•1 semester of Statistics
Each student in NHS has two advisors during all four years which helps students stay on track: an academic advisor and a faculty advisor.</p>

<p>In addition, we also have a pre-health professional advisement system that allows for even more personalized attention as students prepare for and apply to graduate school."</p>

<p>Yes, but note that Georgetown’s departmental curriculum is different. The Nursing school requires ‘Human Biology’ while the premed track requires Biology from the bio department. Ditto Chemistry. </p>

<p>Again the short answer to the OP is to take the premed curriculum while enrolled in the Nursing school, which would mean avoiding some of the nursing science courses (chem, bio, anatomy, for example), while adding in English and Calc/Stats/Physics.</p>

<p><a href=“http://nhs.georgetown.edu/docs/ProgressNURS.pdf[/url]”>http://nhs.georgetown.edu/docs/ProgressNURS.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>hoosiermom, it’s not animosity. It’s reality. Should it be? Well, that’s way above my pay-grade and not really the point here. It won’t change in time for the OP’s kid. OP, it’s a bad choice. Get him to change his mind if he’s serious about pre-med.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table18-facts09mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf[/url]”>http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table18-facts09mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I agree with bb.

I think you’ll find most med schools state something similar.</p>

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Help me out with the definition of “time-intensive”. Are you suggesting that Med students do not work at all or that they only work at mindless part-time jobs? Certainly part-time nursing should pay well enough to decrease the number of work hours needed to generate the same amount of income as a clerk / fast food worker receives. What are the part-time job prospects for grads of the “traditional” pre-med majors such as biology/chemistry?</p>

<p>My D would tell you that (other than summer stipends from med school related research) nobody (that she knows or has heard about) at her med school has time for part-time work. At all. Just wouldn’t be possible. </p>

<p>Everybody exists off FA, loans, savings, or the bank of mom and dad.</p>

<p>IIRC, I have heard of some gigs at some other med schools where a kid “works” in the med school library (essentially as a hat-rack or other piece of furniture ;)).</p>

<p>Well, the admissions numbers referenced by Curm do indicate that only 36% of the students who are not serious about pre-med get into med school, while 43.5% of the serious pre-meds get admitted. So there is a slight advantage to choosing a serious pre-med major! LOL I never claimed that nursing is the optimum choice, but I still see no reason for a good student , who is getting sound advice from an advisor, to eliminate a major in which he is INTERESTED. I don’t have a dog in this fight- ok, it’s not a fight- but my hackles rise when someone says it can’t be done that way. Data shows that’s not true. I never tell my own children there is only one path to A from B. Each has to consider his or her own preferences, goals, talents, etc , when developing an “itinerary”. OP asked about recommended classes for her son who is a nursing major. It has been suggested he see a pre-med advisor ASAP. I’m sure the advisor will encourage and help him to present himself as a viable med school applicant.</p>

<p>Today has convinced me that I have to give up this cc addiction. OP, you have a bright, successful, motivated son. Those qualities will give him much success in his future endeavors.</p>

<p>Hoosiermom,</p>

<p>Thank you very much for your advice - you gave me just the kind of information that I was looking for. I agree with you that there are a number of different paths to med. school. My son is not ready to make a firm commitment to becoming a doctor. He wants to work with people and is a very caring person. He will made an excellent nurse or a doctor. I will give him the list of courses you suggested. I’m sure he won’t have any problems taking an additional science or math class each semester. I will also tell him to sit down with a pre-med advisor to make sure he’s on the right track.</p>

<p>I have several friends whose husbands are doctors, so I’ll talk to them too.</p>

<p>By the way, I used to have a neighbor who wanted to be a doctor, so he was biology major. He didn’t get into med. school, and ended up working as a manager at Walgreen’s. At least my son will have a great job in nursing, even if he does decide not to go on to med. school.</p>