As you probably know, NCEES now only releases the passing rates for engineering grads. However, broader statistics used to be available, and they were published in the introductory section to the PPI FE Study Manual that I used several years ago. I don’t have it with me right now, but will look for it and post the results.
You could do that. California, for example, has supplemental exam requirements for Civil PEs, plus additional tests for civils who specialize in the geotechnical or structural fields. A llicensed Structural Engineer in California has to pass 37 hours of testing, while most PEs only take 16 (8-hr FE + 8-hr PE). Nobody doubts that California’s requirements are more rigorous.</p>
<p>But the graduate degree option is the one that has been endorsed by organizations like NCEES and ASCE. One claimed advantage is that it would appear to make PEs more equivalent to professionals like doctors or attorneys, who are normally expected to hold graduate degrees.</p>
I dug around in the attic and found my old PPI “EIT Review Manual, Current for the 1997-1998 Exam”. It includes a table of “Approximate FE Exam Passing Rates” on p. xxviii:</p>
<p>PPI was (and still is) the leading publisher of FE and PE exam study guides. The book doesn’t indicate where the statistics came from, but presumably they reflect NCEES data from the 1990s. The data are obviously old, but the ABET engineering pass rates for the FE exam are still in the 70-80% range, and there is no obvious reason to suppose that the other numbers have changed much either.</p>
<p>That would probably need a change to the U.S. Constitution! If you change it for engineering, you’ll have to change it for every other licensed profession as well. Not as easy as you may think…</p>
<p>California standards would be daunting. H flew out for the oral exam for the CE license. You’ll have to take my word for it, but he is very bright and experienced, and studied a LOT, but that test was rigorous. He passed, but the examiners let him know it was close.</p>
<p>It has been officially decided that I will be taking the PE exam in structural engineering next April. It is entirely possible that I will be flying out to California to take said exam. Stay tuned for the exciting how-to-get-your-PE-license process…</p>
<p>Good luck, aibarr! Study HARD!! Is there more than one exam you have to take? H did only the civil, and still hopes to do the structural at some point.</p>
<p>I know someone who has a degree in an ET and he is likely doing better right now, at a young age, than everyone else reading this thread will ever do in their entire lives.</p>
<p>Huh, and I know someone who didn’t even finish at the University of Texas and is now making more money than any of us ever will (Michael Dell). So?? Should I tell my kids not to worry about graduating from college, because it’s a waste of money?</p>
The US Constitution does not give the Federal government authority to regulate professional occupations, and so this task normally falls to the states. Doctors and lawyers, for example, are typically licensed by state boards, just as PEs are. In practice, the PE exam is conducted by NCEES, which is a national coalition of state engineering boards. </p>
<p>The only exceptions are in areas that are exclusively regulated at the federal level. For example, attorneys are usually licensed by state bar associations – but patent attorneys are licensed at the federal level by the US Patent & Trademark Office. This is because patents are handled exclusively at the federal level; there is no such thing as a state patent. </p>
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The principal thing that makes California’s civil and structural exams harder than those in other states is the emphasis on seismic design principles. While this may make sense in California, it’s not clear that it would be appropriate for PEs in (say) Louisiana or Minnesota.</p>
<p>In the same way, Alaska requires prospective PEs to pass a graduate-level course on arctic engineering issues. Again, this tough supplemental standard may make sense in Alaska, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it should be adopted in Florida or Arizona.</p>
California licenses structural engineers via the NCEES SEII exam plus a state-specific SEIII exam. California doesn’t offer the NCEES SEI exam.</p>
<p>But I don’t think you can sit for the SE exams in California, unless you are already licensed as a California Civil PE, and you have three years of structural experience after civil PE licensure. </p>
<p>You could take the NCEES Civil PE exam in California, with the Structural PM module. You could also take the California supplemental civil seismic and surveying exams. If you passed all three exams, you would qualify as a California Civil PE (and could start accumulating work experience towards the California SE). Even if you only passed the NCEES exam, you would probably qualify for Civil PE licensure by reciprocity in other states.</p>
<p>If you have the California Civil PE, you can design most kinds of structures, though, right? Just not hospitals and some other types? DH has found that Civil is all he really needs for what we do (government work).</p>
<p>That’s what I’m doing. I know how it works; I just didn’t want to type all that out to explain it to everyone. Thanks, Corbett, you saved me a lot of keystrokes!</p>
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<p>Without delving into the code, I think I remember that the generally-known limit for structural work for a Civil PE in California is for structures under six stories… Beyond that, you need an SE. It would make sense that hospitals, with their higher importance factor and with their being regulated by the ponderous requirements of OSHPD, that you’d need an SE to design those, as well, but I hadn’t heard that before. Corbett, in his infinite licensure knowledge, may have better info than I do on that, though.</p>
Yes. There are exceptions like public schools, hospitals, and possibly state-owned “essential services buildings” (like police/fire stations). Also, I believe that municipal or county governments may specify SEs (rather than civil PEs) in some situations (like for high-rise buildings). I don’t think the “six-story” rule is in the state building code, but it may well be enforced in local codes. Brief summary of state rules [url=<a href=“http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/building_design_auth.pdf]here[/url”>http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/building_design_auth.pdf]here[/url</a>].</p>
<p>California also has specialty certification for geotechnical engineers. Sometimes geotechnical data must be evaluated by a GE, rather than by a Civil PE. </p>
<p>Both the SE and GE certifications are prestigious within the California civil engineering community (and even outside of California). Some people pursue them for that reason, not because they actually expect to use them.</p>
You’re not too far off. One of my secondary job responsibilities is to provide advice to engineers and geologists in my company about PE and PG licensing issues in California. This usually involves junior-level staff, but it can also involve senior staff who are seeking licensure in California by comity. As may be apparent, California’s licensure rules are more complex than those typically found in other states.</p>
<p>I know this question is kind of off topic but does anybody know if Chemical Engineering technologists exist? I really don’t see how a technologist’s job could be that similar to an engineer’s in this field…</p>
Thanks, Corbett, you saved me a lot of keystrokes!</p>