Buisness school, waste of money& time?

Graduate School Business School - MBA
1

<p>I've been thinking, about what i want to do in my life, (Senior in highschool). Medical career seems straight forward, law career seems straight forward, engineering seems okay, but going to business school just sounds stupid.</p>

<p>I really like math, so i was thinking business, and i really thought about it, lets say i go to it and graduate, ill be over 80k in debt, and then what, ill have to 'start my own business'. Ive seen so many posts about people having trouble with 'their own businesses' because its hard to compete with the big corporations, and big stores that are and sound more trustworthy than a small business that you would start up. Plus you would have to pay for the business that you want to start up as well, so add to that 80k. Am i wrong, can someone give me some jobs that include being a 'business man' ?</p>

2

<p>You should find a field your interested in. It sounds as if business isn’t for you just yet. No job is easy each one has its own unique challenges. Entrepreneurs start businesses because they love what they do, and they do it well (according to them). They love the challenge. If starting your own business were any easier, most entrepreneurs would quickly die of boredom. The same is with law and medicine. Most lawyers and doctors are self employed and run their own business in groups as partners or solo as sole proprietors. The lesson there is regardless of what you get into, eventually you will need some business skills as you rise in your profession.</p>

<p>Doctor
Lawyer
Middle and upper management in a corporation
consultant
Head architect
Realtor
Caterer
Supermarket Manager
Restaurant Manager at Houlihans
film producer
accountant
financial planner
Property Appraiser
Roofer
Electrician
Grant Writer
Car dealer
Real Estate Broker
Printer
administrator in government
staff accountant
Operations Manager
Fleet manager
Property manager
etc…</p>

3

<p>there is a huge assortment of biz careers. here are a few:</p>

<p>Sales: the grease of capitalism. lots of personal interaction, connections, and you get to “reap what you sow” by earning commission. a great career for someone with the personality.</p>

<p>Investment Banking: working on wall st, doing deals for companies of all sizes. IPOs, mergers and acquisitions. very exciting and lucrative.</p>

<p>Wall St Trading: time the markets, execute orders, whatever…lots of analytical skill and also “judgement skill” required…obviously huge pay.</p>

<p>Management Consulting: help business leaders solve their problems as outside consultants. strategy focused, etc. of course many people hate them for obvious reasons. </p>

<p>Accounting: count the beans. not so lucrative, but a solid and fairly safe career.</p>

<p>Corporate Finance: running excel sheets etc for the company. planning and ensuring financial stability for a company (admittedly less sexy/exciting than the above careers)</p>

<p>business school is not really geared towards starting your own company. instead, it is designed to facilitate either a promotion or career-switch into one of the above fields. many people work as an “Analyst” or some other entry level position out of u-grad, work for a few years, then go to b-school. afterwords, they can work as an “associate” at the above firms and make roughly 175k all-in the first year (120k salary + bonus).</p>

4

<p>Yeah, but i dont think that doctors and lawyers went to buisness school for 4 years, this is the reason i think its a waste of time. I think that it is just common sense.</p>

5

<p>If it were common sense you wouldn’t see so many posts about peol having so much trouble with finances, and competition.</p>

6

<p>a couple of points. first, business is a much riskier career path than law, medicine, or engineering. people with great stats etc get dinged by top mba programs all the time. it is also VERY hard to get a premier business position out of undergrad (probably only comfortable for the top 10 schools in the nation). </p>

<p>second, you aren’t going to b-school to “become a businessman”. you are really paying 80k for the job interviews and alumni-network. no one will hire you because you know how to do a discounted cash flow; they are instead hiring someone that has established themselves with a solid business brand and has the qualities and traits of a business leader. the actual skills learned in class are somewhat minimal and not really the purpose of the degree. b-schools are the established path for gaining access to employers in the industries i mentioned, so you have to work with the system if you are interested in those careers.</p>

7

<p>Not a premier position or company but good money and experience can be found at places like:</p>

<p>[PCA</a> - Professionals](<a href=“http://www.pensionconsulting.com/professionals_alternative_markets.htm]PCA”>http://www.pensionconsulting.com/professionals_alternative_markets.htm)</p>

<p>This is an example of backgrounds of people who are top executives. It takes time and experience but anyone can get there.</p>

<p>All you have to do is Google any company (try all of the fortune 500) and look to see who their to executives are. Most give their education background in their bio.</p>

<p>You don’t have to go through wall street to make ridiculous money. If you do go through wall Street, no matter who your are, you won’t make it if you think any of it is going to be easy. The same is with the legal profession and the medical profession. </p>

<p>If you don’t want to work hard the you should plan on collecting Social Security.</p>

8

<p>Saying that business school “just sounds stupid” is a bit misguided my young friend.</p>

<p>The most popular fields to enter following graduation from a good MBA program are finance and consulting. More than 50% of graduates from top schools wind up in one of the two. The amount of money you make in each generally makes the 80-90k or so total tuition you pay for the 2 years (don’t know where you are getting 4 from) seem pretty low. With an average pay increase of over 100% for graduates, in NPV (net present value) terms it’s generally a no-brainer. [Note the exception is if you already have a big-time job, then the opportunity cost starts to become too high, but this is unrelated to the relatively small tuition you pay.] People who are landing half decent non-finance jobs out of an MBA program will make over 150k in the first year after bonus. Those who land good finance jobs will make over 200k after bonuses (or in some cases considerably more). These numbers are just the beginning, successful graduates could be making millions a year not terribly far down the road, far more than almost any doctors make and more than the vast majority of lawyers as well. </p>

<p>The reality is that pay in Medicine is not what it used to be, and after considering the many years of schooling required and the long residency period after school, it is not a smart path to follow if you are just in it for the money. I know lots of doctors (who are at the top of their field), and few feel very wealthy compared to the bankers and hedge fund guys are at similar levels in their respective fields.</p>

<p>Lawyers can make quite a bit of money if they work in corporate law, but this is restricted to top graduates from top schools. A lot of lawyers who went to podunk schools and were not at the top of their class actually regret going to law school. There was a good article in the WSJ regarding this phenomenon a few years back:</p>

<p>[Hard</a> Case: Job Market Wanes for U.S. Lawyers - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119040786780835602.html]Hard”>http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119040786780835602.html)</p>

<p>Of course the variance of pay amongst MBA grads is wider than that of doctor/dentist types (not sure about lawyers). But then again, the hurdle to get into med school is far higher than that to get into b-school so it’s hardly an apples to apples comparison.</p>

<p>In the end, you make plenty of dough going down any of these professional routes if you are at the top of the heap, but if you actually are good with figures, and think you can climb to the top to the business school pyramid, getting an MBA is far from “stupid”. I would suggest you get to college, see what you like, and then start worrying about making decisions.</p>

9

<p>I understand that, but that is missing my question, i want to know actual jobs that you can get. We stated lawyers and doctors above, but they aren’t really with it if you get what i mean. I want to know what type of jobs someone with an mba can get. Sure, everyone wants to be a ceo, but cmon, how many of them really are?..
Plus, all these business jobs dont sound like they make much at all… accountant,cpa…</p>

<p>I want a list of jobs that are within the mba. </p>

<p>The thing is that the field of ‘business’ is what intrests me, and i want to atleast know what jobs are out there when you think ‘business man’. And i dont want to hear being your own boss…</p>

10

<p>Read what we wrote and use your imagination. Any degree is what you make of it. What do you want to do?</p>

<p>–or–</p>

<p>What are you good at?
What is your personality?
What is you hobby?
What are you best classes in school? What are your favorites?
Are you good in math?
Do you like to build or take apart things?
Are you naturally curious?
Do you ask a lot of questions?</p>

<p>If you give us more details about your personality, skill, and likes; we can give you a more focused list of possibilities.</p>

11

<p>I just wanted a couple of possible job occupations that deal with business, just wanted an idea, didnt want anything personolized. Anything i can say you can just turn it into a buisness which isnt what i wanted, for example, lets say i like trash cans for some odd reason, you’d say make a company that makes trashcans. </p>

<p>But lets see what we get. Maybe i dont see what you guys are talking about, or maybe im in the wrong career field! </p>

<p>What are you good at?</p>

<p>Thinking logically, making an argument, saving money, knowing values on items, giving advise in situations, lieing. <– Not to be proud of, but i can come up with a good exuse right on the spot, you get the idea, didnt really mean lieing in a bad way. </p>

<p>What is your personality?</p>

<p>-Funny, sociable,logical, and if i know someone good i can tell what they would do in a situation, for example, something happens to my friend and he’s telling me about it, i can stop in the middle and finish what he was going to say.</p>

<p>What is your hobby?</p>

<p>-Playing with pets, working with my salt water aquarium, sports, videogames</p>

<p>What are you best classes in school? What are your favorites?</p>

<p>-Math so far, a little sience. No favs really, althogh i cannot do history, it is my greatest downfall and only B/C on my report card. A’s in all classes but history. Ruining my 4.0 in Highschool…</p>

<p>Are you good in math?</p>

<p>-Yes, but i dont like doing it.</p>

<p>Do you like to build or take apart things?</p>

<p>-Yeah, love playing with legos.</p>

<p>Are you naturally curious?</p>

<p>-meh. </p>

<p>Do you ask a lot of questions?</p>

<p>-Yes i do.</p>

12

<p>your sarcasm and general a-hole-ness suggests law in my opinion :)</p>

<p>the logic skills will be appreciated and utilized, and you won’t have to do math.</p>

13

<p>Yes, ive thought about that, but im horrible at history, i cant do history at all. I can’t do law unfortunately.</p>

14

<p>I agree.</p>

<p>Logic and argument are appreciated in Law School. So is having a high opinion of yourself (no shot intended); the ability to and desire to consult others, and the ability to think on your feet.</p>

<p>Lawyers are inquisitive they ask a lot of questions in many different ways. Sometimes to get the answer they want, and some times to get to the truth. Most lawyers are sociable. They need to be to bring in business.</p>

<p>You don’t have to do a lot of math to be an attorney though I do suggest you get at least one basic accounting and one intro economics class under your belt. The most successful attorneys either have the instinct or some sort of business foundation to build their practice.</p>

<p>I’m not sure what to think about your trouble with history. Law requires an understanding of our legal and legislative history. It is also philosophy.</p>

<p>I suggest pre-med, med then law school. If you don’t go to med school but still do law school you can take the patent bar with your science background. Patent attorneys are rare and make mega bucks. </p>

<p>I only say JD/MD because that is what you say looks most straight forward. You originally mentioned those two as an interest, and engineering is math intense. Business has a lot of math to get through the core curriculum but nothing like engineering (I’ve read on CC), and you said you don’t like math.</p>

15

<p>Do you need outstanding math skills to succeed in Business School (doing MBA) ?I ask this because a friend of mine who is going to major in mathematics&statistics told me he will be much more prepared than me.I am planning on doing International Relations and Political Science …</p>

16

<p>law doesn’t require a skill at history persay; history is really about rote memorization and regurgitation in the style of the prof’s choosing. </p>

<p>a law school exam is more like this. the prof gives a hypothetical situation. your job is to look at the situation and identify the legal issues that are present or could arise (ie which of two competing laws to apply and why). then you argue how to resolve the issues…much different than a rote memorization course. </p>

<p>law really has little to do with history or any other liberal arts field if you think about it; it is just strongly associated with those majors because they have a tendency to go to law school due to lack of other opportunities.</p>

17

<p>for MBA, you do NOT need outstanding math skills, but you do need passable ones. there is no need to understand group theory but you should know percents, geometry, etc. so you can do well on the GMAT. once you get in the program, you can avoid the tough math classes easily due to schedule maneuvering , and even if you struggle, mba gpa doesn’t affect your job possibilities all that much.</p>

<p>in fact, i believe there is a hidden bias against people that have outstanding math skills in the admissions process because the stereotype is that those math skills go hand-in-hand with bad social skills/awkwardness/autism-like traits. not to say you will get dinged if you have those skills, but you will be viewed through a certain lens that will be somewhat more critical of your sociability (ie maybe the interview counts for that much more).</p>

<p>where your friend might be correct is that he will be able to get a good job out of undergrad with the math skills. the quality of your post-ugrad work experience is VERY important, and math skills are quite marketable in the workplace. premier employers like investment banking and consulting are looking for a high level of analytical/quantitative talent so your friend might do better in those interviews.</p>

18

<p>@BostonEng,
If I do International Relations at college, what kind of WE do you think would be appropriate before applying to Business School ?</p>

19

<p>you want to get the best, high-paying job you can. name brand counts for a lot as well. your major is not going to really dictate your job opportunities, unless it happens to be engineering/accounting/finance/etc. most likely you will be competing in the “general pool” of college graduates as an IR major.</p>

<p>specifically, you want to try to get into banking or consulting if at all possible from your undergraduate institution. these are the traditional mba feeders. they also provide good LOR etc as the MBA is accepted as the “thing to do”. </p>

<p>if that isn’t going to work, many corporations have “rotational programs” to shoot for. these have a good brand-name factor and can provide good leadership examples for essays. you can google for opportunities to see whats available IE “rotational leadership program”. GE is probably the best one, and GE also has an extremely strong brand.</p>

<p>if you want some specific examples:</p>

<p>[GE</a> Undergraduate Leadership Programs](<a href=“http://www.ge.com/careers/students/undergraduate.html]GE”>http://www.ge.com/careers/students/undergraduate.html)</p>

<p>[Leadership</a> Development Program](<a href=“http://att.jobs/development-ldp.aspx]Leadership”>http://att.jobs/development-ldp.aspx)</p>

<p>[Principal.com</a> - Careers: Leadership Development Rotation Program](<a href=“http://www.principal.com/careers/student/leadership.htm]Principal.com”>http://www.principal.com/careers/student/leadership.htm)</p>

<p>[Human</a> Resources Leadership Development - BAE Systems](<a href=“http://www.baesystems.de/Careers/CareersinYourCountry/US/LeadershipDevelopment/HRLDP/index.htm]Human”>http://www.baesystems.de/Careers/CareersinYourCountry/US/LeadershipDevelopment/HRLDP/index.htm)</p>

<p>outside of that, a sales position can be a good one, especially at either a large company or an innovative startup. if you go the startup route, make sure it has a solid amount of vc funding so it has more credibility for both you and your future application. </p>

<p>The GE FMP states this as a requirement: “Academic excellence with financial or quantitative interest/competency”. other options might have something similar so you might want to get at least a minor in accounting or finance, or even double major.</p>

20

<p>^^ Ok, but I don`t get something.According to Business schools, majors vary and dont matter, but in order to have better chances, we need WE in the financial sphere.So, how can one find such job if he/she has majored in electrical engineering or computer science ?</p>