<p>Eduniversal rates McGill number two in North America, ahead of Yale and Stanford. Harvard is number one.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eduniversal-ranking.com/content/top29">http://www.eduniversal-ranking.com/content/top29</a></p>
<p>What? No outraged posts from Queen’s, Western and York business students yet!</p>
<p>:-)</p>
<p>What is Eduniversal anyway? Businessweek, in their MBA ranking, puts Queen’s 1st, Ivey 2nd, and McGill 3rd, and this is actually a reliable ranking (<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?).</p>
<p>I agree. Who cares about eduniversal.</p>
<p><a href=“Eduniversal - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduniversal</a></p>
<p>They specialize in Business School rankings around the world.</p>
<p>Poets and Quants uses a composite ranking, where each component is weighted for 25%. The components: Businessweek, Financial Times, The Economist and Forbes. Then again, how reliable is P&Q, given its components whose individual reliability has been established?</p>
<p><a href=“http://poetsandquants.com/2013/12/03/poetsquants-2013-international-mba-ranking/2/”>http://poetsandquants.com/2013/12/03/poetsquants-2013-international-mba-ranking/2/</a></p>
<p>Seven Canadian schools made the top 40 outside the US, in order:</p>
<ol>
<li>York Schulich (11th)</li>
<li>U Toronto Rotman (21st)</li>
<li>UWO Ivey (29th)</li>
<li>McGill Desautels (31st)</li>
<li>UBC Sauder (32nd)</li>
<li>HEC Montréal (34th)</li>
<li>Queen’s (39th)</li>
</ol>
<p>^ what a terrible ranking. For the record, Queen’s only participates in BusinessWeek, and doesn’t willingly participate in Forbes, Economist, or FT, hence why it is ranked so low. Furthermore, it’s an MBA ranking, making it irrelevant to this thread. Lol at any ranking that includes HEC Montreal as a viable choice.</p>
<p>The fact is that Queen’s and Ivey attract all of the best banking and consulting firms in Canada and the US. This is true to a lesser extent for McGill. None of the other Canadian undergrad b-schools offer a good chance at breaking into finance or consulting. </p>
<p>Then again, HEC Montreal is still, at the undergraduate level, well-regarded for accounting (not as much as Schulich though)…</p>
<p>Any feedback on Rotman Commerce?</p>
<p>[100s of Chief Executives and Chairmen (Business Leaders) from companies in 10 countries were asked to select top universities from which they recruited… Their votes were weighted in favor of schools in countries that they were not native of - Read comment in link below ]</p>
<p><a href=“Education - Image - NYTimes.com”>Education - Image - NYTimes.com;
<p>Duke> McGill> Penn> Cornell</p>
<p>Duke: #13
McGill: #19
Penn: #24
Cornell: #38</p>
<p>How does this factor into the general assessment here? Does this corroborate the eduniversal rankings? It would help to see similar support for Queens and Ivey at this level (anything other than students trying to promote their own school is more credible).</p>
<p>Vinsim, the survey you cite relates to views of the CEOs and Chairmen on the top universities for recruitment (all disciplines) and not just business schools. It is not surprising then that well known branded universities dominate the list. </p>
<p>I agree with your observation that students are apt to promote their own schools. Given that, I am wondering why McGill business students are not more positive on the experience they receive at their university in comparison to students at Ivey and Queen’s:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.globecampus.ca/navigator2/compare/”>http://www.globecampus.ca/navigator2/compare/</a></p>
<p>A comparison can be run for most of the business and commerce programs under discussion in this thread. </p>
<p>If you are a business school student what matters more? Your ranking of the school or employers’ ranking of the school?</p>
<p>This is Business Week’s ranking of US undergraduate business programs:
<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?;
<p>Note the University of Riichmond is ranked 16th overall. Its students rank it 7th, employers rank it 94th! There is an inflated feeling of self worth there. </p>
<p>Tomofboston, I am a senior executive in a global financial services firm and can only share my experience. When hiring Canadian students we place very little weight on the university that successful candidates attended. McGill, Queen’s, Ivey and U of T are all fine schools and we would not favour the candidates of one those schools over another. </p>
<p>There are many factors to consider when selecting an undergraduate or graduate business school. I am suggesting that consumer experience is one of them.</p>
<p>Maybe we place more value on recruitment opportunities than arbitrary rankings. Besides, everyone knows Queen’s >> McGill for business.</p>
<p>Imho, there is no objective universal standard by which we measure one school over another, certainly when it comes to undergrad business programs in Canada. Depending on a student’s personal criteria and what factors are important to him/her (eg. strong international reputation, areas of specialization such as finance, international management and integrated management studies, culturally diverse city where the school is located in, large international student body, ability to learn French in a French-speaking city, strong international alumni network etc.) McGill easily has ten-fold more to offer than Queen’s. </p>
<p>As to job opportunities, there has been such a myth (or fabrication) being perpetrated in the forums – the truth is McGill, Queens, Ivey, U of T and other Canadian business school graduates are all strongly represented in the business and financial sectors in Canada (with McGill stronger than Queen’s internationally, probably because of its international student body). The top 10% - 20% of the graduating class will always excel and impress, be it from McGill, Queen’s or what not. Those at the bottom of the barrel in any of these schools will struggle. What happens to the rest in the middle (the majority) from all the Canadian business schools will depend on a range of personal factors including luck, family and personal connections, personality type, individual competence level, networking abilities, world economic conditions etc. Unless you are comparing say Wharton or NYU Stern with a Canadian school, I am not aware of any Canadian business executive who feels the name of a particular Canadian undergrad business school will provide a student with any particular advantage or disadvantage. Internationally, it is a different story - my understanding is that internationally Queen’s is not nearly as well-known or enjoy as high a reputation as McGill. So when jimmycanuck makes the above claim, I don’t believe it to be true whether in Canada or internationally.</p>
<p>It’s very easy to say that there is no way to measure one school over another and come off as thoughtful, but this isn’t necessarily true. I will grant you that one might pick McGill over Queen’s for a variety of reasons, but overall, and we should stress “overall” Queen’s is the better business school (and in my opinion, the better UG school in general.)</p>
<p>Objective measures include placements, starting salaries, selectivity, student satisfaction, ect. When we look at all these areas, Queen’s does win out. Admitably, selectivity is hard to measure, as Queen’s emphasizes soft-apps, and does not accept as many international students as McGil does, thus grades are hard to compare. Still, in terms of applicants to place ratios (a flawed measure, to be sure) Queen’s is more competitive. </p>
<p>See employment reports for both schools: both are base salaries, and Queen’s grads clearly have a better salary. Also, Queen’s places more in the most competitive industries (consulting, finance) than Desaultels.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/desautels/career/data”>http://www.mcgill.ca/desautels/career/data</a></p>
<p><a href=“Smith Bachelor of Commerce - Overview”>Smith Bachelor of Commerce - Overview;
<p>As far as McGill’s international rep goes, it is fast declining, between the universities slackening selectivity, financial troubles, and messy bureaucracy. Sure, to the typical international, they will know McGill more than they do Queen’s, but employers don’t higher so blindly.</p>
<p>Now, will the best McGill student succeed more than the worst Queen’s student? OF COURSE! Were not talking about Athabasca vs Wharton here, were talking about two very good business schools, it’s just that one is (overall) better than the other. </p>
<p>The name of your school will not carry you if your a weak student at any university. The point is, school name opens doors, it’s your job to get through them. Fact is, Queen’s Commerce opens more doors than Desaultels, or Rotman, or any other school in Canada, with the possible exception of Ivey. More recruiters come to Queen’s, and those recruiters hire more from Queen’s than they do other schools.</p>
<p>TL;DR Sure, every school has it’s strengths, and your success is largely contingent on you, not your school, but it is lazy and untrue to suggest that all business schools are equal.</p>
<p>Ah, unsubstantiated claims about McGill <sigh>…can you provide credible, independent and substantiated research to support your claims about McGill all of which seem to me to be unfounded, unsupportable and prejudicial and do not bear repeating. </sigh></p>
<p>Unlike you, I’m not here to promote any one school; in fact, never once said Queen’s wasn’t good. It is no doubt just as good as many other top business schools in Canada: I understand McGill, Ivey, Queens, Laurier, Sauder (UBC), Schulich (York), Rotman (U of T) etc. are all excellent schools in Canada. </p>
<p>I simply suggested it is often a personal consideration in each case, and it may surprise you to know that many students have considerations other than what you seem to narrowly focus on. And its quite alright if for you it may be recruitment , for others it may be other equally important considerations which is not to say McGill doesn’t also have strong recruitment…I know certain ‘sentiments’ get repeated over and over in forums, but I do understand that the top Canadian undergrad business schools all fall within an acceptable range of recruitment opportunities, and the statistics for each school will likely vary from year to year. The schools also differ in what they include in the starting salaries & ‘employment’ statistics, and I understand its not readily apparent from the published numbers what the differences between the schools really amount to. </p>
<p>There are many top-performing students who choose McGill over Queen’s (& other schools), and there are many extremely successful McGill graduates all over Canada and in the world, as there are equally successful graduates from Queen’s, Ivey and the other schools alike. I am not aware, based on my research, that here in Canada the name of a Canadian undergraduate program produces any vastly superior results in the workplace than the other schools. Internationally though, some Canadian schools do appear to enjoy a greater reputation than others, McGill being one of them. I understand many people from other parts of the world have never even heard of Queen’s from small town Kingston, Ontario. So I am suggesting which country you intend to work in upon graduation may be an important factor.</p>
<p>Some individuals appear to have certain narrow and restricted perspectives and for whatever reason, seem to promote only one school, but its not always helpful for other students and parents. I’m merely suggesting a more balanced approach may broaden perspectives.</p>
<p>Stuff about business schools: This is what I said, schools have different strengths, and each my appeal to others, but their are objective measures of the strength of different schools. Seriously bro, I basically agreed with you, I just think it’s misleading to say Sauder = Rotman = Ivey = Laurier = QC = McGill. The treatment and opportunities from these schools will be vastly different, and in some cases, some schools will afford better educations and prospects. This is just true.</p>
<p>Stuff about McGill:</p>
<p><a href=“http://publications.mcgill.ca/reporter/2013/03/mcgill-announces-measures-to-deal-with-budget-cuts/”>http://publications.mcgill.ca/reporter/2013/03/mcgill-announces-measures-to-deal-with-budget-cuts/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.globecampus.ca/navigator2/mcgill-university/”>http://www.globecampus.ca/navigator2/mcgill-university/</a> - See the “What students say” section, also below average satisfaction</p>
<p>Selectivity is hard to measure, as McGill will not release data, but they are much easier on international and Quebec students than out-of-province. Also, no supplementary app means they rely on typical inflated Canadian grades.</p>
<p>It’s very hard to get data about a universities treatment of students, but McGill’s career offices are infamous. They’re workers are frequently on strike (Quebec after all), and the university, overall, just doesn’t treat it’s students all that well. </p>
<p>McGill’s international rep is the best of any school in Canada. In Canada, however, is a big qualifier. In reality, the name of McGill isn’t going to get you any further then any other reputable university (McGill, UofT, Western, UBC or Queen’s). It’s reputation is that of the lower UC schools, and it doesen’t carry much weight. I’m sorry, but if you think the McGill name opens any more doors than UBC or UofT or Queen’s, you’re kidding yourself. All it means it that random Americans will have potentially heard of your school.</p>
<p>To be transparent, I chose Queen’s over McGill, UBC, UofT, and Western. It’s fair to say I’m biased, but in the mind of most Canadian students, McGill is going downhill. I never heard a McGill student rave about their school the way Queen’s, UBC and Western students did.</p>
<p>Its very Ontario-centric perspective in the forums, mixed in with biased uninformed views sometimes. </p>
<p>I read some posts the way I think of TV infomercials. </p>
<p>There is a whole different world outside the limited confines of small Ontario campus towns. </p>
<p>What a young student has or has not ‘heard’ is irrelevant to the quality of education a University offers.</p>
<p>It may be a good idea to extend one’s effort ever so slightly to understand there is no need to trash other schools. Your school stands on its own merit, as do other universities in Canada. Each school will have its own set of pros and cons. What McGill had to deal with, “other Canadian Universities are dealing with similar problems”. </p>
<p>Its one thing I have never been able to understand about QBS students - I can understand school pride but I can never understand why some always feel a need to trash certain schools. Inevitably, if someone posts something positive about McGill, QBS students somehow see it as their business to trash McGill. Very entertaining indeed. </p>
<p>For your information, I am not a student - long way past that stage. Enjoy your school and wishing you a successful career for years to come. </p>