BUTI v. Interlochen?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Hi everyone--I'm new and I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this question. Sorry if it's not!
My 14 yo soprano dd just received acceptances both to BUTI and Interlochen Vocal Artists Program. She attended Interlochen last summer after 8th grade in the intermediate division and loved it, though I was less than impressed with the quality of the performances, both for operetta and chorus. They were fine; nothing great. She had a great experience learning theory, sight singing, etc.</p>

<p>Now we have a decision to make. Her voice teacher says YOU DON'T TURN DOWN TANGLEWOOD.</p>

<p>Socially: DD is pretty shy and not too worldly although she is from a big city. I hear Tanglewood has little supervision with lots of freedom to do whatever you want in the evenings? Does it have anything of a camp feel? Is there time to have fun? How is it to make friends? Etc. I also see the high school program is 14-19, so she will be one of the youngest kids…should I be worried?
Musically: She wants to focus on solo voice/opera, though she enjoys choral singing as well. I know something about what Interlochen offers, not too much about BUTI. Anyone have a sense of the caliber of the programs?
Financially: BUTI tuition is less expensive, and we can drive relatively easily, as opposed to Interlochen, which would require the expense of a flight/uniforms/flying out for a performance/etc etc etc. Michigan sure was beautiful, though. I was kind of excited to go back to Sleeping Bear Dunes.</p>

<p>Just wondering if people who have BTDT, especially with a kid on the younger/more innocent side, can share some info on both the musical and social aspects? All advice welcome.</p>

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<p>Hello Coloraturama, </p>

<p>As a BUTI Vocal Program alum, I can tell you first hand that it truly is a summer of magic and a lifetime of memories. I too heard the comment: you don’t turn down Tanglewood. Most consider it to be the top summer vocal program for aspiring high school classical vocalists. There is a reason for this though: THE LOCATION. Situated literally one mile down the road from the Tanglewood Main Grounds, BUTI is on the doorstep of the world’s greatest classical musicians daily. For so many of them, Tanglewood is the place to come in the summer. Yo-Yo Ma for example actually makes his summer home in the Berkshires. As students at Tanglewood, we are given access to all of the amazing concerts for free. There is truly nothing like that at any other summer program for high school students. The only one that would compare would be Aspen in Colorado, but that is for 18 and up. </p>

<p>If you are looking for a quality overall program, then BUTI is the way to go. I really found my voice at BUTI through the incredible staff and wonderful friendships I made. Professor Hoffman is one of the most caring people I know and voice class with her is a real treat. The choral program is superb. Last summer we did the Mozart Requiem with the BUTI Orchestra and it was absolutely magnificent. Ken-David Masur directed and as he was a former student of German Baritone Thomas Quasthoff, his since of both orchestral works and vocal works was impeccable. The opera scenes at the end of the summer are really fun, and well put together. </p>

<p>If I had anything negative to say it would be that you won’t always find the best voice teacher for the 6 weeks. Most of the teachers hired for the summer at BU Doctoral Candidates from their Opera Studio or singers currently in small Young Artists programs somewhere in the northeast. They don’t always have a lot of experience teaching and thus, aren’t going to be nearly as good as college professor or private teacher. However, that isn’t the case with all of them, just some. Also, voice class with Prof Hoff or Joy McIntyre really makes up for private lessons a lot of times. I learned the most from them.</p>

<p>Finally, in regards to the social aspect of BUTI. I can say that I had a hard first week. I’m a pretty shy guy from the south, and the northern culture and climate was a big adjustment for me. By week two though, I fit right in and I think a lot of it had to do with everyone respecting each other as artists. Since your daughter was accepted into a very competitive program like BUTI at age 14, I imagine she is very talented and the other students will notice that. I imagine that she will make friends very easily once the initial shock of being away for 6 weeks in vocal camp wears off. I truly ended up making what I expect to be lifelong friends at Tanglewood and it made the entire college audition process so much easier. </p>

<p>I don’t know much about Interlochen, except that I have friends who do the boarding school there, but I can say with utmost passion that BUTI is an absolutely magical place. I certainly hope your daughter gets to experience it. This could be the final summer that it is around. </p>

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<p>I can’t speak to the vocal element of BUTI…but my daughter was there for violin performance in 9th grade, was one of the youngest violinists in the orchestra and she had a fantastic experience…she too refers to it as “magical”. I would not characterize it as “little supervision”- at least in her building the counselors were very attentive, nightly lights out checks, and the ones we met seemed to be aware of who was where, what was happening during the day etc…and the staff was helpful. However, they do not hover, and do allow a certain amount of freedom- my daughter was allowed to walk into town ( 10 minute walk ) to use the Laundromat for instance. The evenings were mainly about going down to the grounds and hearing the Symphony as much as possible. The mail room was her biggest complaint- they would only have it open for a short time, just when they were getting back for lunch, or having to leave on the bus for another rehearsal- made it a challenge to pick up a parcel. If it matters, the food was only so so:)</p>

<p>I would add that the program at Curtis is also an amazing one, and my daughter attended sophomore and junior summer- we went to all the programs and the vocalist were very impressive…in case you are considering it as well. </p>

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<p>Thank you so much for this input. This is all really helpful. I think we are leaning toward BUTI…Will keep you posted!</p>

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<p>We just made the same hard choice although for violin and picked BUTI. We turned down full ride at Interlochen, which I know is a wonderful place because older son went there. This was a very tricky decision because we still do not know if he has any scholarship from BUTI but decided we would find a way to make it work for him even if he got no scholarship money. We thought long and hard about this but the idea of being on the Tanglewood grounds and attending those concerts made him pick BUTI. We asked many people their opinions and the phrase “life changing” kept coming back for BUTI. Interlochen was wonderful for older s but felt a little too structured for him. </p>

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<p>My daughter was 14 went she first went to Tanglewood. She loved it. Overall the quality of the programs is high. Students are allowed to go to the small town whenever they are not in class; this is what my daughter liked. She felt very restricted by programs that over-supervised, as she put it. Tanglewood definitely does not do that.</p>

<p>If you like bears–you mentioned Sleeping Bear dunes–Tanglewood has actual bears wandering around the campus. My daughter took a photo of one outside her room window two years ago. Supposedly they are tame however.</p>

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<p>Wow–that’s amazing! A full ride would have been hard to give up!
DD was not too bothered by the structure, and I think she is still young enough to be fine with it, but I think it might be good for her to have a little more freedom (when I’m not in my overprotective worried mode!)
Is this your son’s first summer at a music program?</p>

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<p>Coloratura, It was very hard to give up that scholarship. S is in 10th grade and I am a bit overprotective of him and we have already had some talks about his being responsible for himself at Tanglewood. He spent 3 happy summers at Greenwood Jr. and two at the wonderful Kinhaven in past. It helped us that we had a timing issue with end of school and exams with Interlochen. These other camps were very small nurturing programs. It was suggested to us by a number of people that BUTI was next natural progression. Still waiting for financial info from BUTI. </p>

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<p>“If you like bears”-- haha! So many of these programs seem to take place in bear country.</p>

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<p>Well, quite frankly, for me personally, those would be the ones I would avoid! Haha!</p>

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<p>I can’t talk about the vocal side of BUTI, but on the instrumental side the common theme I heard about BUTI is that its focus is mostly on orchestra and/or chamber (ensemble playing), and if you are looking for a program emphasizing individual work, it isn’t as strong. Yes, you can arrange for private lessons with BSO members from what I recall, which may not be a bad thing (though I believe that is extra cost) and I am talking from a strings viewpoint as well,it could be very different with a brass player (or a vocalist, obviously, which I cannot talk about). The plus side is the orchestral and ensemble program is strong, and those doing it come back calling it a great experience,…plus being able to attend tanglewood is a plus. My S choose not to do BUTI because he had a lot of high level orchestra and chamber experience by that point and wanted to work on his individual playing, but that was him. </p>

<p>The downside of BUTI from everyone I know who goes there was the food, and that the dorm facilities were so so, that seemed to be the chief complaint. Having had my son go through summer programs in other places, there are always a percentage of the students who see it as a place to run wild or cut loose IME, but on the other hand, there are always a lot of great kids to hang out with, too. </p>

<p>With Interlochen, chief complaints I have heard is the kids didn’t like that it was more summer campy, and that it was a lot more rigidly structured then other programs (lot of kids love that, again, depends on their expectations).</p>

<p>In terms of the D being 14, it depends on the mix at the program. My S has been to programs where he was the youngest, and where it was more difficult was when he was the youngest, and everyone else was a lot more older (like, for example, an 11 year old among 16, 17 year olds, where that age group dominated), but if the program has kids close to the D’s age, I suspect it won’t be an issue. Again, depends on the kid, too, some 11 year olds prefer being with older kids, too…</p>

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<p>Yes @musicprnt we switched to the Curtis program for the reason you stated - BUTI 's orchestra and Chamber were excellent…a fantastic one of a kind experience…but not much time for solo work.</p>

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<p>Thank everyone for giving such thoughtful responses. I’ve gotten some responses elsewhere that indicate that BUTI is really designed to prepare for college auditions, like after junior year of high school, and that’s why most of the kids will be much older. </p>

<p>I think my daughter will be fine with the level of music and singing (I mean, clearly she will have A LOT to learn but I think she will enjoy it and be up for the work). It’s still the social piece that concerns me most, of having a 14 year old with much older teens. I liked Chattabaritone’s contention that the older kids would look out for her! Just hope it would be the case. </p>

<p>woodwinds:
would you mind answering a little more in detail (if you know!) how many other kids who were 14 were accepted your daughter’s year, and how she managed socially within a group that was primarily much older kids? I assume most of these kids are pretty serious and responsible if they are in a program like BUTI but… Also how did it work with things like laundry, etc? If she isn’t feeling well? Etc. Clearly BUTI seems to have a reputation (almost universally) of a fantastic summer experience. It’s the other stuff that I as a mom am worrying about!</p>

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<p>I really think she will be fine. She is finishing 9th grade now? There will be kids finishing 10th grade, so that shouldn’t be a huge difference. There may be a handful in voice finishing 9th. She will have to do her own laundry. No option to have it done like at Interlochen. There are RA’s who live in the dorms who will be available to assist her with any questions/problems, etc. </p>

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<p>My daughter had only finished 8th grade when she was 14. I know she was the youngest woodwind at the camp; I don’t think there were many of them that age. She had no problems, and had a blast. That year she went only for the 2-week workshop, which is different than 4-6 week ensemble programs. She got along well with the students who were serious, and wanted to practice in their quartet a lot.</p>

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<p>That’s great that she had such a good experience just coming out of 8th grade. I’m assuming also that means that you felt comfortable with the level of supervision and so on (or was she just a very self-assured, independent 8th grader?) I spoke to my daughter’s principal today (she goes to an arts school) who was concerned about sending a young teen into a place with minimal supervision. She said she’d talk to some people and get back to me. But that goes against what I’m hearing from all of you. It’s going to boil down to a gut feeling with this one, I can tell. We were thinking of renting a place and driving up for several weekends just in case…but wow is it expensive. Everything reasonable must be rented the year before. </p>

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<p>So much depends upon what the teen likes and is comfortable with, their personality, etc. For my daughter, the level of music was the #1 issue. It also varies per instrument, as instructors all have their own personalities. My daughter also went directly from Tanglewood to Interlochen that year, and the differences couldn’t have been greater.</p>

<p>For us, we learned over the prior few years from failed camps that over-supervision was a major problem for my daughter. The freedom to go into town and get the bus to rehearsals was a very welcome change. My daughter attended an independent-type middle school/high school, where students were already allowed to leave campus whenever they wanted to during the school day beginning in 8th grade. So, any camp supervision for my daughter would have been over the top (except for a bedtime check). Tanglewood was great this way. She could practice as much as she wanted to, go into town, go running when she felt like it, or explore the graveyards of Lenox. Her first summer she studied saxophone. Saxophone at Tanglewood is an extremely good program, relaxed but also strict teachers–no yelling. So the teachers make a big difference as well. We were able to find less expensive lodging a few miles away.</p>

<p>Interlochen for us was a very unfortunate experience. The main problem was that my daughter was put into the middle school program due to her grade. The level of teaching went from college-level at Tanglewood, down to middle school level at Interlochen. so you can imagine she was very unhappy about that. Plus, it was, for us, over-supervised. My daughter was not allowed to go anywhere on her own, and could go nowhere on Sundays. She wasn’t allowed to go running, as no one in her cabin wanted to go, and she wasn’t allowed to even speak with the high school saxophonists–my daughter considered them her peers. I know that others have enjoyed Interlochen, but as I said it depends upn one’s personalisty, placement, instrument, etc. My greatest criticism remains today that Interlochen was too inflexible, and refused to change my daughter’s program even when they saw how unhappy she was there, the entire three weeks.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision.</p>

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<p>Coloraturama, regarding hotels in the Lenox area: the cost of hotels is crazy up there. There are so many tourists that go to that area they can get away with top dollar, often higher than NYC hotel prices we found. A tip that took us a while to figure out last summer: some hotels require a 2 day min., during certain peak summer weekends. It would appear that a hotel was booked if you searched for one night, when if fact it was really because you hadn’t met the 2 day minimum. For one weekend we ended up booking a Days Inn south of Lenox, in Stockbridge I think it was – it was a TOTAL dump. We left after getting our money back, and ended up at the Holiday Inn in Stockbridge. It was fine, and more importantly they had a room at the last minute.
Something else to keep in mind: staying somewhere that requires a drive, 20-30 mins, from Lenox, can get a little bit much at night, in the dark, when you aren’t familiar with the roads. It’s country.
The best hotel we found up there was the Hampton Inn and Suites in Lenox. Breakfast was included which helped ease the sticker shock of the room cost.</p>

<p>One final thought: getting into BUTI one year doesn’t mean getting in a subsequent year. No one is grandfathered in. So if your D wants to do BUTI, and has already done Interlochen, then maybe BUTI makes more sense. Just another thought to stir in the pot. GOOD LUCK!</p>

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<p>What kind of supervision would you feel comfortable with? Your daughter will be able to walk to the town of Lenox by herself, walk around the BUTI campus by herself. They are serious about rules such as opposite sex not being allowed in rooms (someone was kicked out for that when D was there even though it was totally innocent and close to the endow the program). The kids seem to be very serious about their music and I didn’t hear of kids getting in trouble with things like drinking and drugs for the two years when my D was there.
I doubt your Daughter would want to see you on a lot of weekends. She will probably make friends and be busy with them, practicing , etc. as others have pointed out, hotels are expensive and in short supply. If she’s thinking about going and you want to go the last weekend to opera scenes, you should make reservations now. </p>

<p>I really think she’ll be fine. It seems like she’s already been away for a summer at Interlochen. Yes, there is less supervision at Tanglewood. If the fear is that older students will lead her astray into alcohol and partying, I think that’s highly unlikely. Lenox is a very small town and she should be safe walking around there, even by herself. </p>

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<p>Something else to consider- a few months back there was talk that BUTI would be closing or possibly moving to Boston. Not sure if that’s still an issue, but you might want to investigate just in case it might not be an option on future years. </p>