<p>I'm a transfer student from NV, gonna be heading up to BYU starting this Summer term. I'm somewhat concerned about the environment there as I am not LDS (Roman Catholic), although when I visited last month it seemed a very friendly environment to non-LDS members. </p>
<p>How's on campus living there?</p>
<p>Thanks for your replies flipchick and etoilestars. I'm from Anchorage, Alaska and I was looking for a drastic change in the weather. Cold to me is 30 degrees, but I'm used to the 0 degrees in the Winter. I suppose the chill helps with the modesty issue ;).</p>
<p>I got into UC Davis, UC Santa Cruz, UCLA, and BYU-I also. The real debate is now between UCLA and BYU. Financially (sp?) BYU will save me the bucks, but I'm afraid I'll never have the opportunity to get into a dreamy school like UCLA ever again, so I should take the risk.</p>
<p>BYU is a great school, and I remember it was ranked in the top five for best education for your money. The weather is a factor because I'm not a fan of the cold winters.</p>
<p>Cathbig: From hearing from other non member friends that went to BYU, they said it was a clean and healthy environment. The people are pretty nice, but about 90% of them will try to convert you. It's not a bad thing but it can get annoying. You'll learn how to have fun on the weekend without beer and hear a lot of lessons about the most unconfortable topics because Mormons tend to be open about their beliefs and standards. I heard it gets lonely on Family Home Evening nights because everyone is gone at church. They'll probably invite you nonetheless.</p>
<p>Congrats on your admission, maybe I'll see you next Fall.</p>
<p>cathbig--</p>
<p>Everything decidingstill said is true. Everyone will be really friendly to you and you won't have any trouble making friends. You may, however, run into some over-eager people who might try to convert you. This will probably be worse at the beginning of the semester when everyone first meets you though. The weirdest thing for you will probably be all of the mormon jokes you'll hear and the prayers in class and stuff. Also, it is required that you take a year of Book of Mormon here, so that may be a bit awkward for you too.<br>
So, some things may be a bit weird for you, but it will all work out in the end. The people are really really nice. I hope you have a great time here!</p>
<p>do you really want to go to a school that doesn't think you're grown up enough to be unsupervised with members of the opposite sex?
.......</p>
<p>Check out their honor code
here's an english translation:</p>
<p>Big Brother Loves You
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength</p>
<p>xorwat--
what schools did you get into? because you might want to have told them that you suck at analyzing and applying literary allusions to real-life scenarios. Ignorance is strength, huh? yeaahhh....makes sense since BYU is an educational institution. You might want to read 1984 again and make sure you even understood the premise of the novel. But hey, better luck next time when you're attempting to mock us.</p>
<p>"Students at BYU should receive a broad university education. The arts, letters, and sciences provide the core of such an education, which will help students think clearly, communicate effectively, understand important ideas in their own cultural tradition as well as that of others, and establish clear standards of intellectual integrity."</p>
<p>and learn how to follow a religion that refuses to admit that it's a made up story .... </p>
<p>I'm sorry but they didn't have all those crops that they described in the BoM in the New World ... </p>
<p>That is igorance, my friend.</p>
<p>Of all the things in the BoM you can argue against you choose the crops??? How about you name a few, my friend. You'd be QUITE surprised how many things people have argued about not being in the "New World" that were later found in archeological digs.</p>
<p>By the way, what did you mean about being unsupervised with the opposite sex? Don't try to make us out to be another Bob Jones or Pensacola Christian College. We're not even close to being in the same league as them.</p>
<p>If you have any other confusions about the BoM, feel free to let me know.</p>
<p>Xorwat,</p>
<p>I really wish I knew which crops you were referring to, but since I don't I am going to assume for now that you are including barley and wheat since those are mentioned several times in the BoM. Here is a very nice article you can read about the presence of barley and wheat in the new world.
<a href="http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=transcripts&id=126%5B/url%5D">http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=transcripts&id=126</a></p>
<p>Um wow this is supposed to be about college, not religious ideology.</p>
<p>Just a question, why is all the discussion in this thread? I'd prefer you started a thread labled "I like to stir up crap" so it doesn't mix with people's questions about byu as a unviversity...thanks</p>
<p>Xorwat is right, it is so creepy. No crude or offensive language, no suggestive dress. Sounds a lot like Big Brother to me, go read the book 1984 again and realize that BYU is trying to be another all-controlling authoritarian government.</p>
<p>Come on, this place is nothing compared to some of the colleges out there. If you wanna talk creepy go complain to Bob Jones students or something. Personally, I like the honor code here. It makes for a much better environment.</p>
<p>No, it's scarier on the simple basis that there are alot more of you. Moreover, the reason why you don't find it creepy is that you've been taught to accept it from a young age ... bears absolutely no resemblance to 1984 ... </p>
<p>The bottom line is that rules are often good and necessary (no cheating, no criminal activity), but by the time you've reached college age, you shouldn't need a bunch of stodgy old men to restrict who you're allowed to see when and how you dress. You will notice that the vast majority of all other college honor codes are simple statements which require students to maintain a basic level of personal and academic integrity but leave students a great deal of latitude in terms of their personal lives. At BYU, you can kiss any sense of privacy and/or personal space goodbye unless of course you never had one to begin with. This in and of itself is insidious.</p>
<p>wow... since when were good morals creepy? And xorwat, are u that unethical that you find it scary when a lot of people get together and have fun without drugs, sex, or alchohol? You say that they dont find it creepy because they've been taught at a young age to accept it. Accept what? That its ok to have good morals? That its ok to attend a college where good morals are promoted? People go to BYU because its a good environment; a place where they can be surrounded by others that share their standards. The university is owned by the LDS church and therefore it doesnt allow conduct that is not in sync with LDS religious beliefs. If it did that would be pure hypocrisy. </p>
<p>Its nothing like 1984.. nobody is being oppressed.. it was their choice to go to the school, and they can leave whenever they feel like it. Xorwat, Please do not come here and flame other religions. Let people believe what they want. Your breed of ignorant hate leads to more oppression then any school promoting good standards ever will.</p>
<p>You prove my point exactly; you have defined "good morals," a term which in the global context has an incredibly wide array of meanings, in an extremely narrow manner. You would have no shame telling me that I'm going to hell for not being a good Mormon under your standard of "good morals," yet most people would find it incredibly rude. It would be one thing if you all kept to yourself, but it's another thing when you come out and try to convert everyone in sight because you arrogantly believe that you're "saving" them.</p>
<p>Again xorwat you speak in ignorance. First off, it goes completly against the LDS religion to tell other people that they are going to hell. That judgement is not even supposed to be made by people on earth. That judgement is reserved for Christ. I believe you are mistaking Mormons for another branch of Christianity; one that uses the term "saved," and makes eternal judgements of others. Please do some research before posting again :).</p>
<p>There is no arrogance in preaching the gospel. When someone feels so strongly about something in their life, something that makes them so happy, its only natural for them to want their friends and fellow humans to have the same joy. In fact I believe, it takes the opposite of arrogance, humility, to share the gospel.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what ur definition of "good morals" is. The term "good" is completly opinionated; what is good for one person may not be for another. But I assure you that "good morals" in the LDS church is not addressed in "an extremely narrow manner." The church extends to all aspects of life, and so do the principles taught in it. If I have confused you in my earlier post or led you to believe otherwise I invite you to check out <a href="http://www.mormon.org%5B/url%5D">www.mormon.org</a>.</p>
<p>"There is no arrogance in preaching the gospel. When someone feels so strongly about something in their life, something that makes them so happy, its only natural for them to want their friends and fellow humans to have the same joy. In fact I believe, it takes the opposite of arrogance, humility, to share the gospel."</p>
<p>... and if they show no interest in the gospel, you lose any interest in them as a person. This is based on personal experience; not everyone is interested. It's also quite arrogant to go around posthumously converting people, obviously done without their consent.</p>
<p>Please save me the tearjerker speech about judgments and saving people; this is the same religion that up until the 1970's said that blacks couldn't go to heaven and have their own planet along with everyone else but could if they were exceptionally good could be servants. Then of course "God" changed his mind under pressure from <strong>gasp</strong> societal temporal pressure ... I'm sure you've never heard of this before because all the official literature has been conveniently edited. Don't forget how He changed his mind about polygamy, a practice formerly sanctioned as moral by the LDS church.</p>
<p>I'm sure "good morals" includes short sideburns and long skirts for guys and girls, right? Dressing is not an act of sin, it's a choice of what to wear. Some of the rules, as you state, are commonly considered "good morals" but when it extends to some sort of preachy institution trying to enforce superfluous beliefs, it gets to be a little bit too much.</p>
<p>"... and if they show no interest in the gospel, you lose any interest in them as a person. This is based on personal experience; not everyone is interested. It's also quite arrogant to go around posthumously converting people, obviously done without their consent."</p>
<pre><code> This statement is completely ludicrous. First of all, most mormons, including myself, do not lose interest in people just because they show no interest in the gospel. In fact, some of my closest friends have been completely against the church. If you've had experiences with people treating you poorly after you showed a lack of interest in the church, then those people were at fault. I'm sorry you had such bad experiences. Our church DEFINITELY does not teach for us to treat people like that. It's rude an uncalled-for. Secondly, you talk about "posthumously converting people" as if you know what you are talking about, but you don't. My religion teaches that there are certain things, like baptism, that have to occur on earth and cannot occur after death. When we do baptisms for the dead, they are not required to accept the act. If they want nothing to do with what we did for them, then they can completely reject it. It is not the same as converting them without their consent.
</code></pre>
<p>Now, as for your statement about blacks, I'm not sure where you got that info, but I've never heard of it before. It is true that blacks weren't allowed to receive the priesthood in the past, but imagine what things would have been like if they had been! With all of the social distress that was occuring in the United States, the church would have been in a great deal of danger if blacks had been allowed the priesthood. The church would have been horribly persecuted. In fact, the church may not have even survived. This is similar to the reason for polygamy. Do you understand how many people in the early church were killed or scared away from the church from the vast amount of persecution they faced. Without polygamy, it is likely that the church would have died out before it ever had the chance to get started. Look at Bible times, many practiced polygamy just to ensure their family's survival. It seems to me that sometimes things that aren't ideal have to be done in order to allow for a greater good to occur. Imagine if the founders of the Constitution hadn't decided to make the 3/5ths Compromise. That alone could have caused the constitution to fail and this country to not exist the way we know it today. Was counting slaves as 3/5ths of a person morally correct? Probably not. Was it necessary at the time? Yes.</p>
<p>Now, this part is for CitricAcid.
"I'm sure "good morals" includes short sideburns and long skirts for guys and girls, right? Dressing is not an act of sin, it's a choice of what to wear. Some of the rules, as you state, are commonly considered "good morals" but when it extends to some sort of preachy institution trying to enforce superfluous beliefs, it gets to be a little bit too much."</p>
<pre><code> I think we're confusing university rules with church doctrine here. The university honor code was set up to protect people from becoming immoral. The rules here aren't "good morals" per se, but they promote good morals. We don't believe it is right to have sex before marriage. Whether you agree or not doesn't matter, that's what we believe. Therefore, the dress code was set up to keep temptations to a minimum. Also, we want our school to be a place where education is the focus--not someone's butt hanging out of their skirt. It's just like any uniform system, except without uniforms. I would also like to say that some of the dress guidelines here are actually stricter than what the church says about modesty. For example, shorts are supposed to go to the knee here at BYU (this rule is often broken, and I don't think excercise shorts count). However, the church only says that your shorts should be "modest." Also, you are supposed to be clean shaven if you are a guy. Though I would hope that most people would WANT to be clean shaven (it's way more attractive, guys), it's not really a church rule that you can't have a beard.
</code></pre>
<p>So basically, what it comes down to is that the rules were set up to promote a good environment. If you don't like the rules, then don't come here. Nobody here says that you have to believe what we believe, but if you come to our school you have to follow our rules. Seeing as how I'd be grossed out at a college where all people did for fun was have sex, drink alcohol, and do drugs, I find this college to be the perfect college for me.</p>
<p>xorwat... I'm sorry if you had a friend who lost interest in you when you showed no interest in the gospel. Sounds like he/she wasn't really a friend at all. That is definitly not a teaching of the church and sounds more like a character flaw of your "friend" than anything else. The church does do baptismal work for the dead, but it is entirely up to that person to accept or not. </p>
<p>Up until 1978 African Americans couldn't hold the priesthood. Prior to this there was absolutely NO belief that blacks couldn't go to heaven or that they would be other's servants. That is flat out wrong. They were in fact promised the priesthood and all the blessings that go along with it, in due time. Maybe this quote from George A. Smith in 1855 will shed some light on the subject: "The Lord conferred portions of the Priesthood upon certain races of men, and through promises made to their fathers they were entitled to the rights, and blessings, and privileges of that Priesthood. Other races, in consequence of their corruptions, their murders, their wickedness, or the wickedness of their fathers, had the Priesthood taken from them, and the curse that was upon them was decreed should descend upon their posterity after them, it was decreed that they should not bear rule." For whatever reason God chose to withhold the priesthood from African Americans for a period of time. Its not up to us to decide why.</p>
<p>God never changed his mind about plural marriage. Plural marriage has been instituted at different times in history. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon were each commanded to practice plural marriage at different times. Due to special circumstances, some members in the early history of the LDS church were commanded to practice plural marriage for a time. Today those who practice polygamy are not affiliated with the church.</p>
<p>CitricAcid... there is a standard of dress and appearance that the church has. What you wear and how you dress is a direct reflection of who you are and how you feel about yourself. At BYU long sideburns (goes past the earlobe) are discouraged. However that is not a church wide policy. Also, those attending BYU are encouraged to have skirts and shorts that go to the knees. I do not see these rules as superfluous, as you apparently do. What it comes down to is having respect for your body, and promoting a good environment</p>
<p>Up until 1978 African Americans couldn't hold the priesthood. Prior to this there was absolutely NO belief that blacks couldn't go to heaven or that they would be other's servants. That is flat out wrong. They were in fact promised the priesthood and all the blessings that go along with it, in due time. Maybe this quote from George A. Smith in 1855 will shed some light on the subject: "The Lord conferred portions of the Priesthood upon certain races of men, and through promises made to their fathers they were entitled to the rights, and blessings, and privileges of that Priesthood. Other races, in consequence of their corruptions, their murders, their wickedness, or the wickedness of their fathers, had the Priesthood taken from them, and the curse that was upon them was decreed should descend upon their posterity after them, it was decreed that they should not bear rule." For whatever reason God chose to withhold the priesthood from African Americans for a period of time. Its not up to us to decide why."</p>
<p>I think that's one of the most racist things I've heard in a long time; the fact that you actually believe this is just creepy.</p>
<p>"Special Circumstances" -- I think that is the threat of the church losing all its property and assets to the federal government. Last time I checked, god isn't supposed to bow to temporal authorities.</p>