Cal Poly is Top Choice for Top Students

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
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<p>This is an interesting thread - my husband and cousin both went to Cal Poly to study engineering. They enjoyed the school atmosphere and local area very much. After graduation, along with my husband’s roommate, they went to Stanford for master’s degrees (the cousin eventually got a Phd there). </p>

<p>Cal Poly provides a great undergraduate education for a CSU price. The student competition teams from Cal Poly, such as ASCE or IEEE, frequently win the top awards in the western region, even against UC’s, Stanford and Cal Tech.</p>

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<p>Yomama12 - Cal Poly is all about performance in the real world. That is my conclusion. In my kid’s freshman year, his Supermileage team took 3rd place nationally in the Shell Echo marathon in Houston. I see the value of getting a hands on education for undergrad and then getting a masters at a research university like your husband and cousin. Possibly my kid will do the same.</p>

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<p>First, let me say that neither I nor any of my kids are Berkeley engineering grads, so I have no axe to grind here. But let’s move beyond the cheerleading and try to inject some objectivity into the discussion. Ickglue, you say that UCB engineering is not on par with MIT, Caltech, and Stanford. According to US News 2013, the top undergraduate engineering programs are as follows:</p>

<p>1) MIT
2) Stanford
3) Caltech, UCB (tied)</p>

<p>This comes from a publication that uses criteria that favors private institutions, so unless you are privy to some information that I’m not aware of, I would say this ranking is pretty accurate. Some of you out there also like to point to the Payscale Midcareer Salary Survey as proof that Cal Poly is “better” than UCB. Well, the latest Payscale survey shows UCB in 31st place, Cal Poly in 60th. Now I know you have to take rankings and surveys with a grain of salt, but there are those of you out there who use survey results when it bolsters your argument but conveniently ignore them when they don’t.</p>

<p>Next, let’s look at the top reasons given as to why Cal Poly is “better” than UCB:</p>

<p>1) “My son/daughter/nephew/friend/husband/etc. goes there AND THEY JUST LOVE IT.”
Yeah, so… what does that prove?
2) The Payscale survey (or at least the previous one) somehow proves Cal Poly is “better” than UCB. Well, let’s for now ignore the fact that the latest Payscale survey places UCB ahead of Cal Poly. Let’s examine the Payscale survey itself. Mudd is ranked 2nd while MIT is ranked 6th. Does this mean Mudd is a “better” school than MIT? Lehigh is ranked 6th while Harvard is ranked 13th. Does this mean Lehigh is a “better” school than Harvard? If you answer yes, very few people would agree with you.
3) “Cal Poly attracts top students over UCB.” Yeah, I’m sure you can point to a small number every year, but as an informed and involved dad I’m well aware of what goes on in California high schools. Fact is, very few, and I mean very few, of the top 5% of any high school graduating class chooses Cal Poly over UCB for engineering.</p>

<p>Next, let’s look at what’s never talked about among Cal Poly cheerleaders:</p>

<p>1) How many Cal Poly faculty are in the National Academy of Engineering? How many UCB faculty? I know, some of you will say, “but they don’t teach undergrads.” Fact is, Berkeley’s faculty is stronger from top to bottom. That has to have an impact on what students learn.
2) Endowment size. If Cal Poly grads and parents are just so happy with their school, and with how successful Cal Poly grads are, why is their endowment a paltry $170 million? The school has been around since 1901, that’s long enough to build a healthy endowment.<br>
3) UCB sends a lot of its undergraduate engineers to top grad schools. Any school that’s “better” than UCB should do likewise. Fact is, very few Cal Poly grads are at the nation’s top graduate engineering programs. Now I’m not saying there aren’t any, just very few. Since some of you like to use anecdotes, let me give you one - my daughter is MIT Engineering, and she has met several grad students from UCB but not one from Cal Poly.</p>

<p>And Osakadad, I want you to know that I truly wish that anyone attending Cal Poly is successful, because if they are successful, then California is successful, and I have a vested interest in California being successful. But saying a student is “qualified” or “competitive” for MIT, Stanford, Caltech, and UCB is not the same as saying they were actually admitted but declined the offer and chose Cal Poly instead.</p>

<p>Finally, don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against Cal Poly. It’s a fine school for the role it plays. But to constantly compare it to and say it is “better” than UCB is wishful thinking and simply self-serving.</p>

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<p>I will just concentrate on answering you UCB question. I know how UCB engineering stack up against MIT/Caltech/Stanford because I am in senior management in a Silicon Valley private equity firm and I have to hire graduates from MIT/Caltech/Stanford/Ivies quite often.</p>

<p>We, in the industry (Silicon Valley/Northeast US region), don’t go by USNWR or any newspaper rankings. On a whole, we are pretty familiar with what each engineering programs are doing and the quality of the programs, and also because so many of our colleagues came from the various engineering schools, we can just ask. </p>

<p>So whether you agree with it or not, UCB (a great university) is not viewed on par with MIT/Caltech/Stanford for its engineering at least in the industry circle. As another example, Google’s hiring process (a notoriously selective company) ranks the various engineering schools, and UCB, by their internal ranking, is solidly lower than MIT/Caltech/Stanford. This is also true for Facebook’s hiring and to a certain extend Apple’s. I supposed you can say that at the very high end of the hiring spectrum in the tech industry, it mimics the hiring practices (and perceptions) of Wall street and the management consulting industries.</p>

<p>As for Cal Poly, I think I have already addressed my point of view in my earlier post. Interestingly enough, Cal Poly is viewed very favorably by Google’s ranking. This is not my personal opinion, but rather their HR executive shared with me his company’s ranking for CP. Also, Google’s Marissa Mayer, prior to her jumping ship to Yahoo, made it a point to visit Cal Poly engineering for mentorship reasons from time to time. I don’t think she would have made those trips if she didn’t have a high regard for CP engineering. But this is not to say CP is better than UCB. </p>

<p>I also neglected to mention, Apple pretty much made it a point to hire mostly (not exclusively) from the Ivies, MIT/Stanford/Caltech, even for their entry level gigs. And Cal Poly is also one of their target school, I suppose this is because Apple’s CFO is a Cal Poly graduate.</p>

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<p>@geohud662</p>

<p>From looking at your other posts on this site, you have almost exclusively stuck to the CP vs UCB threads. My personal observation is that I think you do have an axe to grind.</p>

<p>As a person who already fully accepted your position that UCB is better than Cal Poly, I think you are bit touchy on this issue as a bystander.</p>

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<p>ickglue, as I stated in my post, neither I nor any of my kids have Berkeley engineering degrees so I, unlike so many other posters, have no vested interest in being a cheerleader for or against any school in particular. As I said earlier, my daughter is MIT Engineering, but I have at no time written any superlatives about that institution, nor do I need to point out every competition they have won or placed in. Its reputation and standing in the engineering community speaks for itself. Again, read my last paragraph. I think Cal Poly is a fine school for what it does. But consider this - doesn’t the constant cheerleading betray some other underlying issue here?</p>

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<p>@ geohud662 I should be careful not to beat a dead horse here, there is surely a spread in applicants qualifications as there will be a spread in graduates achievements. What interests me is how well SLO grads perform in the work place. How well do they perform in graduate programs? What would be the best brass ring a graduate could expect to grab? Many successful small business owners earn far more than any academic. The salary of every State of California employee is public information. The big State of California checks go to coaches and surgeons not engineers. I’m sure Stanford and Cal Tech pay their top people more than a professor at any CSU or UC. Most of the owners of modest machine shops, fab shops, forge shops heat treat shops, etc., etc. beat any of us who draw a paycheck hands down. Academic merits are interesting to debate but it’s what you do after you finish school that really wins the prize. We all know that the most valuable lessons are not learned in any ordinary classroom.</p>

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<p>Cal Poly is awesome just because it is awesome!</p>

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<p>Yea you know what, I think so too</p>

<p>I think it is cool that so many people here are cheerleaders for the university.</p>

<p>No apology or excuses necessary.</p>

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<p>That is what I hear from every person I talk to who goes to or went to Cal Poly.
The things that make Cal Poly a great school are not measured by USNEWS or anywhere else. You have to experience the place to understand. Learn by doing.</p>

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<p>One reason for this is self-selection. Students who attend Cal Poly are those who prefer a hands-on, practical approach to learning. Cal Poly is not a research institute and as such does not emphasize theory the way the UCs do. Students who love theory but find building a circuit, a robot, a solar house or an electric car to be unappealing are not going to choose Cal Poly. Likewise those hands-on, practical students are not going to be happy studying theory in the depth that the students at UCs do. As a result, Cal Poly students are going to gravitate towards working in industry with an undergraduate or master’s degree, and aren’t going to be the ones most likely to go on for a PhD. </p>

<p>I’ve seen both sides of this in my son (CPE 2013) and his friends; they made choices based on the theory/practice split, and they ended up at very different colleges. It’s not a question of right or wrong, better or worse. It’s simply a different choice based on interests and goals.</p>

<p>A couple of interesting Google anecdotes: a Cal Poly student a couple of years ago parlayed his senior project into a company that Google bought for a couple of million dollars. He became a Google employee on graduation and is still there. He and his colleagues mentor current Cal Poly students. My son’s Capstone project is funded in part by Google using hardware they have supplied. Google is well-represented at career fairs on campus.</p>

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<p>@ geohud662 Are you referring to UCB or Cal Poly? I’m hearing cheers from both sides.</p>

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<p>Cal Poly vs. Ph.D. oriented Universities</p>

<p>In a way this is a rehash of the arguments comparing LACs such as Williams, Pomona, Swarthmore, and Top 10 Research Universities. </p>

<p>I say “research Universities” because the bulk of their funding, research and reputation is derived from faculty and PhD students-- and undergraduates might if lucky get 5% of the faculty’s attention vs. 95% to graduate students. This then begs the question: how would these Universities compare with LACs solely considering the effectiveness of their UNDERGRADUATE programs. For a time, say 50 years ago until about two years ago when the last peer study came out, Berkeley was tied with Harvard as the best university in the world, by taking the rankings for the 50 or so PhD disciplines, from English to Chemisty, and summing them together. Of late I think Berkeley occupies around the #4 spot for Ph.D. programs. Yet, looking solely at the undergraduate experience, Berkeley might not crack the top 30.</p>

<p>I have a nephew currently at MIT finishing his Masters in Aerospace/Aeronautical Engineering, who did his undergraduate at the Naval Academy. He got more face time and mentoring from full Professors in Annapolis as an undergrad than at MIT as a graduate student. So would it have been better for him to go to Berkeley or MIT as an undergrad (leaving aside the fighter pilot aspect)? One will never know, but he and those around him think he made a wise decision in turning down Berkeley for Annapolis.</p>

<p>Which brings us to Harvey Mudd and Cal Poly SLO. They are both oriented toward producing graduates who can jump right into industry and contribute sooner than 12 months in. Industry know this, respects this, and at least in the case of Mudd, pays them exhoribant amounts of money right out of school… last I looked more than MIT undergraduate engineering alums. Mudders aren’t particularly attracted to Masters programs, inasmuch as a lot of people agree that the Mudd curriculum is equivalent to a undergrad plus one year of Masters at Berkeley or MIT, yet done uber intensely in four years.</p>

<p>Cal Poly occupies its own niche… much like Mudd, but with fewer geniuses. It just doesn’t make sense to compare Cal Poly with Berkeley, just as it doesn’t to compare Mudd and Berkeley.</p>

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<p>“Cal Poly occupies its own niche… much like Mudd, but with fewer geniuses.”</p>

<p>Hilarious! We toured Harvey Mudd and we did meet a few geniuses. Many kids were totally cool, quirky and fun. Some were a bit like autistic savants and made us feel really weird. Overall it was a great school with a tiny unkempt campus. However, we did arrive just after the campus wide Rube-Goldberg experiment. So, the campus was totally trashed and had large burn holes in the grass where some of the Rube-Goldberg stages caused flames and explosions… There was a fire still smoldering in a dorm courtyard. Honestly, I think that my kid would not have done well there. Too intense. Cal Poly is just his style. Also, I was very happy to have dodged the bullet of having to pay over $55K a year in tuition only. Whew!!</p>

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<p>@geohud662 You make a very good point. There are too many variables to make a simple choice based on one or two rankings. One size does not fit all. Have you heard the comparison between an choosing an engineering school and choosing a pair of jeans? Some people can only afford basic Levis, some people can afford the really snappy designer pair. Some feel the more they spend the better they look. Some people look pretty darn good in either, and some people don’t cut much of a figure no matter which they wear. They say that (engineering) schools are like that, some of the kids will shine coming from any good school and some should have saved their (parents) money. The fit should be more important than the style.</p>

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<p>Understand both are excellent schools and Purdue has a 5 year program I believe where students can work to gain the hands-on experience. Given this which would be a better choice. Who would make more money straight out of school a Cal Poly or a Purdue graduate?</p>

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<p>collegeboundkid2 – Both schools are great and will put you in a position for a fantastic job. Which school will allow you to make more money? The honest answer is that it depends on your major, personal negotiation skills and the value that the employers place on you. Another factor is location. California grads tend to make more money because of the higher cost of living here. The answer is not as simple as you would think! Both schools are top notch and will position you for a good starting salary.</p>

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<p>^^I agree with OsakaDad. The one who becomes successful regardless of the University they went to are those that are passionate in their careers which allow others to see their drive. Going to a college for the sake of hoping its reputation will land you a job isn’t going to help you THAT much if you don’t have the key important ingredient that lands you the job–people skills and passion. Even though you go to a great school, it doesn’t make you the only one that’s graduating from that school–hundreds of other people are graduating with the same degree as you are. What makes you stand out during the job interview? It’s your people skills and ambition that lands you the job. This is an extroverted world and puts many introverts and shy people at a disadvantage in landing careers because they can’t be likable compare to a charismatic, extrovert “people person” can. The people skills allow you to effectively communicate and lure people to like you. Passion also allows them to see that you have fire.</p>

<p>Steven Spielberg went to CSULB, Tom Hanks went to CSU-Sacramento, and many other successful people didn’t go to prestigious universities and became successful because they had passion on the stuff they do.</p>

<p>So, what do you do when thousands of people all over this nation are graduating with the same degree and GPA while they compete for the same job as you? What are you going to do to make yourself stand out? Passion will make you stand out. What makes you more favorable to the interviewer out of the competition? People skills will make you more favorable. Let’s be realistic here, people will be bias and favor those they like more–hence the reason why people encourage you to “network”.</p>

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<p>Thank you both (OsakaDad and lawlking) for your replies. Son was rejected from Cal Poly so I guess Purdue it is. It is a shame living in California, paying the high taxes and being well qualified for entering a top Calif school and having to go out of state to attend a top school paying the out of state tuition fee. This is ridiculous, unfair and a joke.</p>

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<p>I am sorry to hear of the rejection. I can understand your frustration. Nevertheless, Purdue is one of the best schools in the country and you and your kid should be very proud.</p>