Cal State vs. UCs-getting no respect?

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<p>You mean like this policy at SJSU: <a href=“http://www.sjsu.edu/advising/120plus/”>http://www.sjsu.edu/advising/120plus/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Students who have fulfilled all requirements for graduation may not enroll in more courses. Those who have fulfilled credit units for graduation but have some course requirements to complete may only enroll in courses fulfilling those course requirements. Changing major after 90 credit units (i.e. senior standing) is not allowed, and all students must declare a major by 60 credit units (i.e. junior standing).</p>

<p>Note that policies like this are not new to state universities. Berkeley, for example, has policies to get students to graduate in a timely manner, though they depend on division (e.g. College of Engineering requires asking permission for any semesters beyond 8 (or 4 since transfer), while College of Letters and Science does not allow continued registration if the student has more than 130 credit units and has completed 8 semesters (or 4 since transfer)).</p>

<p>Yes, ucb, that is exactly how many homeschoolers look at admissions to UC, by using the admittance by exception, which essentially means using a combo of SAT IIs and SATs. It gets tricky, though, and I have chosen to not worry about it. The UCs say that if you take CC classes in a subject, the subject test has to be in a different subject. Now, that doesn’t make sense to me since my son is using the CC classes as his high school work, so it makes sense to take the corresponding subject test rather than some arbitrary one.</p>

<p>At any rate, we’ll just see what happens. My son will have three subject tests, two that correspond to current classes and one that he’ll have to do his best to self study for.</p>

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<p>Wouldn’t the applicable CC courses by themselves count toward fulfilling the a-g requirements, with no SAT subject or AP test needed for that purpose?</p>

<p>Meh, I get a bit confused, but possibly. Thing is, he won’t have all the a-g courses covered by APs, SATs, and CC classes, so his app will have to get special review. I mean, I think, what, he has physics, English, math, and foreign language at the CC that would count towards a-g, but that’s it. And his physics class was only 1/2 of what’s covered by the subject test, so he’ll need to study for the second semester before taking it. But at this point, he will take Math II and Lit in addition to physics subject tests since he’s applying to other schools. But he won’t take his 3-4 APs until this spring, so that won’t help for admissions.</p>

<p>I did not want to expend the energy trying to cross all our "T"s and dot all our "I"s just to meet the UC requirements. Not worth it even if he doesn’t get admitted. Guess that’s the rebel homeschooler in me. =:-O</p>

<p>@sbjdorlo — Please keep in mind that you can’t count on a certain amount of financial aid from the UC’s. My daughter’s financial aid offers from the UC’s were pretty close to the numbers you are seeing (roughly $10K/year) – but that was $5000 above her FAFSA EFC. So there was a gap. I don’t know how accurate the Net Price calculators are – you would have to talk to people whose kids were admitted more recently to get a sense of whether those numbers hold water over time. </p>

<p>And haven’t the UC’s now dropped the requirement for the SAT subject tests?</p>

<p>Well, our income is under 80K, so we would qualify for the Blue Gold program which is free tuition. But we also qualify for both a Cal Grant and a little Pell Grant, so when I ran the calculator for UCLA and UCI, they must have factored that in.</p>

<p>I think this year’s EFC was $9500, but with two in college for at least one year, our EFC will drop. So it does seem that at least those two schools would come in around our EFC. UCSD is different as a commuter school. I still don’t quite believe that my son could actually go to either UCSD or SDSU tuition free. I feel like there’s some catch. I seriously wish so badly that they had his first choice majors, but I think as long as there is music and MEngr at both schools, those are probably the two majors he would apply to.</p>

<p>He so want to explore in college, which is the real downside to having to apply to specific majors.</p>

<p>Yes, the UCs have dropped subject tests as requirements, but for homeschoolers who don’t do “official” a-g classes, subject tests really become a must. Also, for engr majors, subject tests in at least Math II and probably physics are highly recommended.</p>

<p>I don’t think that you necessarily get the Pell Grant & Cal Grant on top of the free tuition. Here is what it says:

<a href=“http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/paying-for-uc/glossary/blue-and-gold/”>http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/paying-for-uc/glossary/blue-and-gold/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>That doesn’t mean that it’s not possible for you to get additional funding – it’s just that you shouldn’t assume that you are getting free tuition + Pell grant + Cal Grant – I think it kind of works the other way around. That is, the Pell and Cal Grant are applied toward tuition, and if that isn’t enough, then you are guaranteed a university grant to cover the balance. But of course housing is a bigger cost overall than tuition at the in-state colleges. </p>

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<p>The UCs, like just about every other school, assume a student contribution, in addition to a family contribution (which is FAFSA EFC). Currently, the student contribution is about $8,500 to $10,000 at UCs (which means that they are assuming that the student will take a direct loan of $5,500 and contribute some work earnings for the rest).</p>

<p>Note that even the super-financial aid schools assume a student contribution – e.g. Yale $4,400, Harvard $4,600, Stanford $5,000, according to their net price calculators.</p>

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<p>They are no longer required, although some may be recommended for those applying to some divisions or majors, and may be used to fulfill a-g requirements in lieu of high school courses that are absent from the record.</p>

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<p>UCSD has relatively few impacted majors, but ME is one of them:
<a href=“Selective Majors”>https://students.ucsd.edu/academics/advising/majors-minors/impacted-majors.html&lt;/a&gt;
If he starts in ME, it may be easier to switch to a non-impacted major than the other way around.</p>

<p>At SDSU, all majors are impacted:
<a href=“Welcome | Office of the Registrar | SDSU”>Welcome | Office of the Registrar | SDSU;
Changing or declaring major at SDSU may require a high GPA or competitive admission, depending on the major. Dig around on the SDSU web site, including departmental web sites.</p>

<p>Good point about ME at UCSD, ucb. If he does well in his pre-calc class this semester, (which he should have a good feel for by November), he is more likely to consider engineering, so that might be a good first choice major. But he’s so darn creative, so it’s really hard to narrow it down for him. </p>

<p>The coolest programs are ones at top schools that are basically impossible to get into: DMD at Penn, Product Design at Stanford, Engineering modified with studio arts at Dartmouth, and DMA at UCLA are all cool programs we’ve looked at. SLO has LAES, as well, but freshmen can’t apply to the major; they must move into it after the first semester.</p>

<p>I did realize that all majors at SDSU are impacted. Again, to be honest, the only reason he’ll apply to SDSU is that it’s local and affordable. Yes, I realize there are others who really want to go to SDSU and who have had great experiences there, but it’s not a match for someone like my son who wants to explore his interests.</p>

<p>One of the best things for my son at MIT was the fact that you don’t declare a major until end of sophomore year.</p>

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Direct loans are part of the financial aid package to meet the EFC - as are work study award. When I wrote about being gapped I meant the amount that was we were expected to pay AFTER accounting for the self-help part of the package. That is, here is roughly what the award packages from 2 UC’s looked like – FAFSA EFC was $5600.</p>

<p>Total COA – $24,000 (this was in 2006, so of course costs are much higher now)
Grants – $10,000
Loans – $3000
Work study – $2000
Expected family contribution – $9000</p>

<p>Anyway, I’m not here to debate financial aid. I’m trying to get across to the OP that the numbers from the net price calculators are approximations only-- her son should be using those numbers as rough guidelines - not as numbers that are cast in stone. It would be a shame if the student didn’t apply to a Cal Poly because of an assumption of a degree of accuracy that is beyond what those calculators offer. The parent is assuming that with financial aid, the UC’s will cost less. And that very well may be how things end up. But it not guaranteed – it is is also in the realm of possibility that the son gets awards from UC campuses that are less generous than anticipated and an award from Cal Poly that is more generous. There is only a few thousand that separates these estimates. </p>

<p>As far as I know the UC’s do not promise to meet full need. I think the aid offered to my kids was generous and with one exception, attending UC’s would have been less costly than any private college, after considering all aid. </p>

<p>But there was a gap. If you look at the work study and loans as being a “student contribution” then we were being asked to pay $14,000 with a $5600 EFC. </p>

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<p>I.e. net price of $14,000. This really is not different from:</p>

<p>Grants = $10,000
EFC = $5,600
Student direct loan = $5,500
Student work = $2,900</p>

<p>Or:</p>

<p>Grants = $10,000
EFC = $5,600
Student direct loan = $3,500
Student work = $4,900</p>

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<p>By this definition, even HYS have a gap, although smaller, since they expect a student contribution of $4,400 to $5,000 in addition to (institutional) EFC.</p>

<p>“I still don’t quite believe that my son could actually go to either UCSD or SDSU tuition free. I feel like there’s some catch”</p>

<p>@sbjdorlo As someone in your area with and income just below 80K and whose D was accepted into both those schools this Spring, I can say that the “tuition free” is mostly true. UCSD while living at home worked out to 1259 a year (just talking tuition and fees here, not books.) She was also offered 2800 in work study. SDSU was 1294 and no work study offered. Both schools offered loans but if a kid was living at home then not necessary. The “catch” with SDSU though was that if your kid wanted to be in the honors program, they HAD to live on campus and then you were talking 13K… at that point, they might as well go somewhere else in the state or to a private school with great financial aid.</p>

<p>Of course, sounds like neither are good fits for your kid. They weren’t for mine either. I will say that the major thing is tricky. My kid went in to college sure… so sure… planning on majoring in the thing she’s been focused and passionate about since she was 3-years-old. She’s a month into college and she’s changed her mind 3 times. The major she thought she wanted has dropped to a minor and by the end of the year, it may be gone forever lol. </p>

<p>If I could like your post and find it helpful, turtletime, I would! I guess there’s something affirming to have just one person understand our situation. </p>

<p>I didn’t know about the requirement to live on campus for the honors college, but it makes sense.</p>

<p>So interesting about your D’s changing her mind! My oldest was a math kid from age two, though physics was brought into the picture around age 12, so he went into college planning to double major, but quickly dropped physics. He will definitely get his math degree but is contemplating changing the focus to math/cs, which I never thought would happen, as he did zero computer stuff in HS. </p>

<p>Sounds like your D has the flexibility to explore. <em>That</em> is what my son wants, if at all possible.</p>

<p>I do think, much as my son wants to go away to college, should he get into UCSD, he should seriously consider it because that is such an amazing deal for a UC of that caliber. We do have one young friend at church who is a ME major (transfer student) and he really seems to be enjoying it. We have another young friend who just started as a music major (also a transfer), so it will be interesting to hear what he thinks.</p>

<p>Yes, truly, the other Cal States mentioned are better fits, but the cost…well, who knows.</p>

<p>I do think the young person I’m helping should at least apply to SLO as a pre-med student. Not sure about CPP for pre-med.</p>

<p>Just an fyi-</p>

<p>I was looking again at a few of the Cal States and I actually see a significant difference in the tuition and room and board plans.</p>

<p>For instance, tuition and fees at Fullerton is about $6200.</p>

<p>SJSU tuition and fees is $7324.</p>

<p>CSULB tuition and fees is $6452.</p>

<p>I have seen room and board plans vary from $12,816 down to $9806. I also heard that students at Fullerton can stay in the Hope Intl Univ dorms (have to confirm that’s still true today), which is even less expensive.</p>

<p>If that is true, Fullerton then become quite affordable at around $7800-7900 a year billed amount. Even CSULB with the least expensive dorm and meal plan comes in around $8900 billed amount. </p>

<p>Since the grant amount of $7,167 never varies, I guess it’s good to dig deeper into tuition and room/board variances. </p>

<p>^^depending on the numbers, the Beach Scholars program is awesome.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.csulb.edu/divisions/students/presidents_scholars/”>http://www.csulb.edu/divisions/students/presidents_scholars/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>We did talk about that up thread. My son is commended and a homeschooler, so he would not qualify.</p>

<p>Not sure what other scholarships are available at the Cal States. That’s the only “biggie” I’ve heard about.</p>

<p>My daughter’s friend was not NMSF but she got presidential scholar, I think full tuition, at CSUF plus a free lap top.</p>

<p>I have a co-worker whose daughter has been recruited by CSUF for soccer. She happens to be a excellent student and will also get the presidential scholarship if she maintains her GPA this year. She will be attending virtually for free.</p>