<p>UCBerkeley or Caltech? Two Schools, one big, one small, two different environments. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>Caltech - Cal > tech > 0 </p>
<p>=> Caltech > Cal</p>
<p>It's rigorous.</p>
<p>er that should be an equal sign...like it really matters.</p>
<p>Anyway, I would say that if a student generally is unsure whether he or she would like Caltech or Cal better, they'd probably be more comfortable at Cal. There are exceptions to this, but Caltech is really somewhere that (once you're informed about it) you should absolutely love before enrolling.</p>
<p>From the outside looking in.</p>
<p>Caltech seemed quirky and full of brilliant oneside people. My son felt like he would belong right away. We liked the houses and the fact that housing was available most years.</p>
<p>Berkeley seemed like it had more well rounded students and certainly a more well rounded student body. (As a non-science major who dated mostly scientist I liked this aspect of Berkely!) I hated the housing situtation, I felt like there might be a bit of a sink or swim attitude. I didn't like capped majors and the fact that you had to apply to different colleges. There are also some seriously huge lecture courses there.</p>
<p>Many years ago, Caltech was known as one of top schools. Actually, Caltech & MIT were number 1 & 2 destination spots for math/science type students. Since then, Caltechs reputation plunged down like a rock. I think that is most likely due to Caltechs policy of sticking to techie programs and not expanding liberal art/social science programs to supplement/compliment students broad intellectuals curiosity. On the other hand, MIT expanded other non-techie programs nicely, now they have fairly good non-techie departments. As a net result, MIT is still a favorite destination for math/science type students. Caltech is not much so, not any more. Heck, those students who would have gone to Caltech many years ago now are applying to MIT-Princeton-Yale-Stanford-Harvard-Berkeley bypassing Caltech. The following is just one incident I know but this says a lot about Caltechs non-techie programs.</p>
<p>Many years ago, I know a guy who got into Harvard & Caltech, a brilliant student, who is extremely good at math/physics. He chose Caltech over Harvard because of Caltechs Axline scholarship (full-ride). After freshman year, he transferred to Harvard. The reason? Paraphrasing what he said: "Caltech is wonderful and very rigorous for techie courses, but other than math/science, there is not much there". Harvard accepted him as a transferred sophomore. He majored physics at Harvard, now in New York, looking to go graduate school.</p>
<p>Bottom line- Berkeley is a better school than Caltech</p>
<p>It depends on the person, both are great schools. Personally, I would go Caltech.</p>
<p>Rabban writes
[quote]
Bottom line- Berkeley is a better school than Caltech
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, and that's why a large majority of people admitted to both Caltech and Berkeley choose Caltech.</p>
<p>In what sense has Caltech plunged down like a rock? </p>
<p>Also, I believe MIT and Caltech are tied in the US News Rankings. Not that rankings mean much, but that certainly indicates Caltech hasn't taken a plunge...</p>
<p>I had Berkeley EECS with Regents and still thought Caltech was an easy pick over Berkeley. If money is not a huge factor, I'd pick Caltech simply because the school cares about each individual student unlike Berkeley. You get access to much better facilities and can actually get to know your professors. Also, there are plenty of good humanities/social sciences as well such as economics (I'm thinking of majoring in as a second major), philosophy, and political science. It's really hard for Berkeley to compete on the undergraduate level with CHYMPS.</p>
<p>what about if, say, caltech was 10-15k a year less than out of state berkeley? what would the choice be then?</p>
<p>Caltech, fo sho. I was saying in my previous post that Berkeley v. Caltech might be more difficult if you are a Californian because Berkeley in-state costs about 1/2 of Caltech, assuming no financial aid.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with Rabban that Caltech's reputation has supposedly 'plunged like a rock'. Heck, I recall sometime in the late 90's, Caltech undergrad was actually ranked #1 overall according to USNews, and Caltech hadn't done anything to broaden its non-technical subjects before that time. It's like MIT has become massively more 'broader' in the last 7 years to bypass Caltech. MIT is basically the same school that it was in the late 90's when Caltech was ranked #1. </p>
<p>{Heck, to digress, while I like MIT a lot, I know that MIT, unlike Caltech, has never been ranked #1 according to the USNews overall undergrad ranking.}</p>
<p>I agree that Caltech could broaden its offerings with more non-technical courses, and with the Claremonts located closeby, I have to imagine that some sort of cross-reg program can be implemented, similar to the MIT/Wellesley crossreg program.</p>
<p>However, at the end of the day, it comes down to the individual. I agree that a person who is very artsy and really wants to study humanities is probably better served at Berkeley than at Caltech. But then again, such a person probably isn't going to apply to Caltech in the first place. Berkeley's broadness is not as strong as it may seem because of the problem of impacted majors, in which you may have to compete to get the major that you want, with the possibility that you will have to major in something that you don't want to major in.</p>
<p>There is a cross registering program with the famous (in design circles, like the automotive industry) Pasadena Art Center and also with the well-rounded/liberal arts Occidental. Both are fairly nearby. </p>
<p>However, it's not well known what cross registered credits are good for, and few take any classes outside of Tech (I'd assume the thought process is "what's the point if it doesn't help me graduate?")</p>
<p>That sounds pretty interesting, is there any more info availible online?</p>
<p>Just curious- what do you think about Cal engineering vs. Caltech engineering? From what I read/hear Cal is stronger in engineering. Anyone from Caltech want to defend the honor of the engineering program? :P</p>
<p>Caltech seems to me to be stronger in math/hard science, and Berkeley seems to me to be better in pretty much everything else. However, Caltech has some advantages over Cal even outside math/sci, namely access to faculty, smaller class sizes, research opps, etc... I suppose if you want that stuff, Caltech might compare in engineering as well? I dunno....any thoughts?</p>
<p>I'll take a shot at defending Caltech engineering, vis-a-vis Cal engineering, in the following way.</p>
<p>Caltech engineering offers more freedom to switch around majors. If you go to Caltech and want to major in engineering, you just do it. If you find out that one engineering discipline is more interesting to you than another, then you just switch over. While this is something that might seemingly be taken for granted, it is certainly not enjoyed at Berkeley. At Berkeley, all engineering students have to declare what engineering discipline they want to study when submitting their application, with only constrained opportunities to switch around later. I know quite a few CAl engineering students who found out that they actually preferred a different engineering discipline, but were prevented from switching over. Hence, they ended up majoring in something that they didn't really want to major in. </p>
<p>The worst aspect of it happens to those Cal engineering students who do poorly - so poorly that they want to get out of engineering entirely. But they can't. That's because to get out of engineering, one of the other constituent colleges that comprise Berkeley has to agree to take them, and if you are getting poor grades in Berkeley engineering, then those colleges probably don't want to take you. Hence, you have the sad phenomenom of those Berkeley engineering students who want to get out of engineering because they are doing poorly, but they are prevented from getting out PRECISELY because they are doing poorly. That is one heck of a Catch-22. </p>
<p>The point is, I think the freedom to switch into and out of engineering at will is, by itself, a good reason to prefer Caltech over Cal. Lots of Cal engineering students end up not being able to major in what they really want.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. I think that for those students who are sure about which specific engineering discipline they want (such that they don't need the freedom to switch around), and/or those students who are highly highly talented such that they will get top grades in Cal engineering (in which case, they will be free to switch around), then for these students, you could make the case that Cal is the better choice for engineering. For others, I would say that Caltech is better.</p>
<p>"Bottom line- Berkeley is a better school than Caltech"</p>
<p>Laughable post, ridiculous conclusion. Cal and Caltech are probably on par with each other for grad school (depending on the progam, of course), but the undergraduate programs are totally different.</p>