<p>Hey so like the title says, right now I'm trying to choose between SCU or UC Berkeley.
Price-wise, they're exactly the same cost annually for me (I got a scholarship at SCU)... but I talked to advisors at SCU, and basically I'd be able to graduate in three years because of AP credit, overlapping classes, etc, so that saves me $30k compared to Cal or even $60k if Cal takes me 5 years like UCs tend to do these days. </p>
<p>So... I'm unsure of where to go. After graduation I want to go to law school, which makes a high GPA from college super important... and that's apparently difficult to achieve at Cal. In comparison, SCU is safer, smaller, easier to get classes at, and has a more laid back atmosphere where class sizes are small and you get to know your professors and all that jazz. But on the other hand, Berkeley is Berkeley and it seems exciting and it's well known across the world... but it also seems cutthroat and much more stressful compared to SCU.</p>
<p>So yeah, just looking for advice for choosing between the two... and insight from current SCU students who obviously know the school well. I understand you'd be biased, but eh. My priority is whichever will give me a better chance at getting into a good law school, but of course, atmosphere matters too (although, honestly, I can imagine myself happy at both places). Thanks!</p>
<p>I have a kid at both colleges. Son at CAL, EEECs major. Very independent, doesn’t care about classrooms with 300+ students, stoic about the rough grading curve. Didn’t care about bells and whistles or close relationships with professors.
Daughter at SCU. Biggest class was 30 students. Every professor she’s had knows her by name. Not unusual to meet with profs in office hours. Really high GPA more than doable if one immerses themself in the class materials–profs totally know who has put in the effort. Gotta show up for class and be read and prepared. Lovely campus.</p>
<p>Go with what fits your top two criteria. Gpa is one of them, so that tilts SCU. What is your next most important criteria? Walk the campuses to get a feel for atmosphere…</p>
<p>One thing to keep in mind is that Santa Clara’s funding and endowments will either remain constant, or (more likely) increase during the next four years. This means more spending on academic programs, new facilities, etc. that will continue to improve the quality of education offered. Berkeley’s is only going to go down, unfortunately. I would say they are about equal academically for undergraduate education. You’ll be fine getting into law school from either. It all comes down to environment. I prefer the more intimate setting of Santa Clara. I have friends that love how massive Berkeley is. I wanted a Catholic atmosphere. That is by no means something that you will find at Berkeley (though there is a very nice Newman Center, if you are in fact Catholic). By the way, I’ve worked very hard and have a 3.96 cumulative GPA after two quarters, so a good GPA is a definite possibility at SCU if you work for it.</p>
<p>Absolutely not true. Keep in mind that any current construction or additions that students are seeing brought to campus now were determined with funds from years ago. You don’t just decide to build a multi-billion dollar facility or otherwise upgrade facilities to the tune of tens of billions and have gates up and construction people on site 30 days later.</p>
<p>My close co-worker’s Mother works in SCU’s budgeting office (not financial aid to students, but the University’s budget ) and tells us all the time how much more SCU is being strapped for dough because of mismanaging funds and investments, and general waste or going the “cheap” route on something that ends up costing them more down the road anyway.</p>
<p>The UC system is losing funds (hence admitting more full-pay OOS and Int’l students this year), but SCU is no shining star in the world of green.</p>
<p>I came from Vietnam a few years ago, so I still don’t know much about educational systems in America. I am still working with biochemistry major at a community college in Cali. Some of my relatives suggests me to apply for SCU. Is it a good private school for biochemistry major? As I know, USC is a good school but it is not a safe place to live. What are the difference between LMU, Chapman university and SCU? Which school has best biochem program? I highly appreciate your help! Thanks :)</p>
<p>Many of your AP credits will likely apply at CAL also and at a minimum help ensure you will graduate in 4 years … maybe even allow you to have a lighter than normal load so you can have some time for PT work ( or research).</p>
<p>They seem like very different environments – go with what fits you best.</p>
There are a lot of students who attend who can, and do, pay tuition up front out of pocket and therefore the need for FA is decreased while simultaneously increasing the available funds or
SCU is choosing to spend it’s available budget allotments on things other than FA, which may give premise that they hold other things in higher priority on the financial ladder than aid to students.</p>
<p>I also read in last year’s President’s Report that additional donations of $2M allowed 190 students to stay attending at SCU which would have otherwise not been able to if the funds were not employed. So SCU may have forced 190 students to seek education elsewhere if those funds were not donated. It fails to mention, however, how many students did in fact have to leave the school that year because they could not attend due to financial reasons. Of course they’re not taking a survey of that statistic, but the Freshman Retention Rate of the school, although considered high at some 93-94%, seems to also drop or raise in correlation to the ebb and flow of the Endowment size ( [Retention</a> and Graduation Rate for New Freshman](<a href=“http://www.scu.edu/ir/ir/other_data/retnsum.cfm]Retention”>http://www.scu.edu/ir/ir/other_data/retnsum.cfm) ). This still means that anywhere between 5 and 7% of Freshman drop or transfer out, which would be about 100 students from the average incoming class.</p>
<p>Of course I don’t even need to cite the UC system’s financial woes, but this is just for the testament that SCU’s financial stature is no more predictable than any state funded institution. 2 years can see them lose a quarter of the previous endowment - again forcing them to freeze faculty and staff pay - among many other associated cuts.</p>
<p>To the OP, as mentioned before, the environments of the schools are very different. If you would like to get that easy 3.7+ GPA for grad school, get some more personalized attention from professors, have a smaller class size and therefore less competition with your peers, have decent enough motivation to follow academic guidelines and graduate in 4 years, then SCU should be good for you in those regards. What do you plan to major in? I would always encourage someone to follow their dreams, but law school is expensive and there’s lots of murmurs right now that traditional law is a cramped field. If you plan to live in CA after LS, then even more so. CA SOS just announced that a measure (CA SAFE Act) just qualified for the November ballot to eliminate capital punishment (the death penalty) in the state. Proponents of the measure believe that it will save the state billions by laying off all the extra lawyers and legal staff it takes to perform death penalty appeals and such, which could effect your job prospects if all those newly unemployed persons decide to seek positions in other legal niches.</p>
<p>Do you read The Santa Clara? I saw an interesting Opnion piece in a recent edition that compared SCU to Cal in terms of how “freethinking” they can be ( [Campus</a> Control: Discouraging Freethinking - Scene - Scene - The Santa Clara](<a href=“http://www.thesantaclara.com/scene/campus-control-discouraging-freethinking-1.2853789]Campus”>http://www.thesantaclara.com/scene/campus-control-discouraging-freethinking-1.2853789) ). UCB will put you in much bigger classes and it will be harder to get a coveted GPA. Plus, at the undergraduate level IMO, the namesake or prestige of the school is no matter when there are plans for graduate or doctoral education. If you’re truly set on LS, then SCU will be the better bet since you’d get everything mentioned above (and a bag of potato chips ) for possibly the same price as Cal.</p>
<p>I’d say visit each to determine if a high GPA holds more weight than any other aspect and make your decision from there (or ask more questions here).</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the advice you guys.
I’m planning to major in PoliSci, which I hear has a good department at both schools… so that doesn’t really help in deciding between them, haha.
I’ve visited both campuses, and they both worked for me. I actually like the smaller feel of SCU more, but because of proximity and price, I wouldn’t be dorming there like I would be at Cal, so it doesn’t make too much of a difference anyway.</p>
<p>Ok, well thanks again. I have a week left to decide, and honestly, I’m still pretty stuck. Hopefully I’ll end up making the right decision in the end though, so we’ll see.</p>
<p>Oh, and also, how many hours of homework do you usually do daily? I just want to get a sense of the workload, especially for a polisci/social sciences major.</p>
<p>For a major like PoliSci, small classrooms are a big part of the learning process–discussion and debate just doesn’t happen in giant classrooms. Also, for law school in general, being able to write well is critical–and smaller classes at SCU are a great environment for teaching students how to write because the student gets a lot more constant feedback on their papers throughout the entire writing process. I know a recent PoliSci grad and I know he met several times with a professor for lunch just to geek out on some materials (some poli sci theory) they were both interested in–and this was not directly related to classwork or class.</p>
<p>I think it is difficult to estimate hours of homework–students read and absorb materials at different rates. They research and formulate and write papers at different rates. Some students can read a difficult text once and know/understand it well, other students have to re-read, take notes and find a partner to discuss to understand. It depends on the other classes, too… some students might wiz through their required math course and spend 30 minutes blasting out the numbers, and the next student might spend 4 hours on the exact same homework (that’s me!!). And on the flip side, a one student might memorize their foreign language vocab in 30 minutes (ha, that at least is me) and the next student might still be helpless after 2 hours of flashcards. Etc.</p>
<p>For soc/humanities type classes a really rough guesstimate is to plan for 2 hours of prep time for each class period (for each class for each time it meets) for just the mundane ongoing stuff like reading texts or basic homework… that will usually have you reasonably prepped. BUT that jumps up SIGNIFICANTLY once projects, research, papers, test prep gets added in. And the idea of 2 hours of prep per class is just a wild guess because it differs based on reading speed and comprehension skills as I mentioned above. Classes meet usually 2x or 3x a week.</p>
<p>Do you see living at home as a con? It saves a lot of money but may make the student less independent. If you’re saving money this way, then I say why not. My wife lived at home while going to SCU and she turned out a great student ;)</p>
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<p>If you really want to know how to write well for law school, then major in Philosophy. SCU has some outstanding Philosophy professors. My wife is a Philosophy major from SCU because she too planned to go to law school (didn’t end up happening - yet - because it’s too expensive for us), so post here or PM me if you want to know how that workload is. But generally, she’s explained to me that Phil students sit in the classroom and debate on tons of topics with the professor and other students. Just straight talking - no real notes needed. Then they do A LOT of required reading accompanied by various papers throughout the quarter. She said she never had a final as a test per se, but just had one big paper due at the end of each class which she would have time to work on throughout the quarter anyway. She can also suggest certain professors. She was too going to be a PoliSci major at SCU, but took a required Phil class and decided she HAD to get more of it. SCU also has a Pre-law emphasis in that major, but I would personally suggest the Ethics emphasis. My wife actually qualified for both so maybe that’s an option for you too if you decide on SCU.</p>
<p>Also, after Physics and Math/Economics majors, Philosophy majors are shown to score the highest of reported majors on the LSAT.</p>
<p>Wow! I am in exactly the same boat and I still haven’t decided! The deadline is tomorrow…I’ve gone to both campuses several times and talked to people here and people there. I wanted a different experience which is what Cal would provide but also a chance at a good GPA which is that SCU would provide. I wanted to take the Pre-law elective courses (each one!) at SCU because preview day got me psyched about those. I am also worried about getting lost somewhere as huge as Berkeley… definitely not used to living away from home! I’m leaning more toward SCU but I am afraid that I will regret having turned down Berkeley.</p>
<p>Also wanted to thank turtlerock, that really helped! I was considering Philosophy…I might go for it.</p>
<p>Go to Cal. I don’t care what anybody says, you’ll get a better education there. I’ve never met anyone from Cal who didn’t/doesn’t love it. Not to mention, their PoliSci department is incredible–way better than that of Santa Clara.</p>
<p>In case you have the chance to see this in the next 24 hours, Psyched: I agree that Cal’s PoliSci dept will be better than SCU’s with more distinguished staff and more research opps (getting them from the rest of the competition is tough though). IMO, it depends what you plan to do with your PoliSci degree. If you want to play roles in politics or go on to graduate polisci education - amongst other things, then Cal may be a better bridge there. However, if you’re planning to take it to law school, then I would recommend going through SCU’s Philosophy program like I mentioned to Mooose. GPA and LSAT will matter most for LS. SCU will provide highly in both if you are a dedicated and motivated student.</p>
<p>turtlerock:
Yes, my parents are very strongly concerned about my ability to keep a great GPA in Cal. They’re trying to leave it up to me but I know they are vouching very strongly to everything you are saying. Which is weird considering I always expected we would be arguing on opposite sides…like Cal is exactly what they always wanted, right? My friends are all practically in agreement on Cal. Anyways, I’ll go confirm SCU now. I’m not really happy with that decision but I wouldn’t be worry-free with Cal either so I don’t know what to do. Maybe I’m supposed to make a decision and let God decide the rest. I only wish that I have no regrets. Also, there is no right and wrong and undergrad is not the end of it. Plus, I just turned 17 so I’ll have time to live it later (hopefully) since my age concerned me. I’ll make sure whatever I choose, I live a decent quality of life. Anyways, thanks!</p>
<p>Speaking as a student at Santa Clara, and as a guy who spent quite a bit of time going to classes with a friend at Cal, I don’t believe for a second that the undergraduate education at Cal is any better than that of SCU. </p>
<p>Our professors have many of the same distinctions, only they don’t publish as often because they are required to teach 6-7 classes, hold generous office hours, and put on department events. That’s just the style here, and if the yardstick is publication, then we lose. Plenty of RESEARCH is done, however, and much of it invites the opportunity for motivated students to join in.</p>
<p>One important thing to consider might be that Cal is home to a number of graduate classes in various disciplines; were one to decide to go on to, say, a PhD, the opportunity to take some of those classes as an undergrad would be invaluable. But, SCU is home to a law school. It knows many of it’s students in the political science and philosophy departments would like to attend nice law schools. Many of the classes and events are catered to potential law students.</p>
<p>Cal’s name is better (at least for now), but I’ve met the same fraction of unintelligent, uninvolved undergraduates that I do at any other college, my own included. There are a number of benefits which will be hard to consider before attending a college. Just remember, your success at any institution will ultimately be dictated by your own actions and motivation.</p>
<p>Good luck to any and all of you still agonizing!</p>
<p>Sorry, let me make my point clearer: Santa Clara DOESN’T have other graduate programs. That was the purpose of that statement. Not to imply Cal doesn’t have a law school, which of course it does.</p>
<p>^ I think he means SCU doesn’t have graduate program in political science/philosophy, the majors OP intend to pursue; so graduate level classes in those majors are not available in SCU for undergrad to sit in.</p>
) for possibly the same price as Cal.</p>