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<p>Is this REALLY good public policy? A really good use of taxpayer dollars?</p>
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<p>No, IMO, but I’m not sure those are the right questions.</p>
<p>They may not be the right questions because the state provides a small percentage of the costs of operating the college - can’t find the exact current number online, but it’s in the 20-25% range - and that’s going down every year.</p>
<p>So the right question may be: Is that really a good use of student family dollars?</p>
<p>And, IMO, the answer is No - which is the reason that were I the czar, I would get rid of the freshman and sophomore classes at all the public Illinois universities except UIUC (and maybe UIC, though I’d raise the admission bar there) and greatly expand the community college system. Let students prove they are ready for challenging college work before going away to college and incurring the costs that involves.</p>
<p>But politically, the chance of that happening approaches the probability of DC voting for Romney or Utah for Obama.</p>
<p>It sounds like California is not the only state with a broken education system. Maybe we are in the news because our state is so broke?</p>
<p>It is sad indeed that students are allowed to get through 12th grade and not have a remedial understanding of English and math. There are so many factors that have contributed to the breakdown in our educational system. Can it ever really be fixed?</p>
<p>It is dismaying to see K-12 public school teachers that can’t spell, use bad grammar, etc. I saw it all the time in documents coming from the the schools. </p>
<p>I do agree that we need more vocational schools, although I thought that is what the community colleges were supposed to be doing.</p>
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<p>Maybe because your state is so big and such a center of media. We’re just as broke here in the Land of Lincoln.</p>
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<p>[Fix</a> Illinois Pensions Now](<a href=“http://fixillinoispensionsnow.com/]Fix”>http://fixillinoispensionsnow.com/)</p>
<p>*“It’s like piranha. They sense blood in the water,” Gene Lucas, UC Santa Barbara’s executive vice chancellor said of the recruiting institutions.</p>
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<p>oh yes.</p>
<p>When I was at a Phi Beta Kappa induction at Bama, I was sitting next to two former UC Berkeley profs. I asked them what brought them to Bama. Their answer: more money, stable financial environment, new and expanding facilities, job placement for their spouses, and a much lower cost-of-living (both commented on their nice waterfront digs which never would have been affordable in Calif.)</p>
<p>Oh yes, there is a sensing of blood in the water. You can’t expect schools in better financial situations not to go after the talent that’s out there. And, you can’t blame the profs who are facing uncertainty or stagnate salaries not to be open to other offers. </p>
<p>This isn’t shocking or odd. This is how things work in America. When one company can no longer provide reasonable assurance of job or economic stability, the employees will flock to the companies that are poised to do so.</p>
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<p>Notice the absence of two pesky elements … the students and the teaching. Not it surprises me in the least from faculty. What was I thinking! Those folks have had their prorities straight for a long time. As I wrote it is … do the least possible, in the most pleasant environment, and for the most bucks. Some call that dedication to the teaching profession. Oh my!</p>
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<p>The voters of California have no one but themselves to blame. For more than 30 years, they have systematically de-funded K-12 at the ballot box. Now they’re shocked – shocked – at the amount of remediation which the colleges need to do. What did they expect?</p>
<p>Is there evidence that more money will produce a better product in CA?</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Copout 101. Where is the evidence that throwing more money at a failing system is the solution? More money simply becomes more wasted money in the hands of California educators.</p>
<p>Regarding Research Universities vs LACs - the thing is that a lot of flagship state universities are fairly inexpensive options for in-state students vs LACs so many students will go to the research university (not really understanding the research aspect) and get shocked at the steerage-class courses. Those wanting to do research or discovering that they like it - fine. But I think that they are in the minority at your typical public research universities.</p>
<p>Boy, Xiggi, you are harsh on us teachers. I wonder if you can imagine what the students (and parents) are like before you put the blame on the teachers.
From Edsource.org, “Besides being the nation’s most populous state, California is also one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse. In addition, more than half of the state’s students come from low-income families, a quarter of them are learning English, and about one in 10 requires Special Education services.” </p>
<p>“Poverty and lower levels of parent education correlate strongly with the breakdown of the family unit and with lower student performance. One measure of poverty is the number of children who participate in the federal National School Lunch Program, which provides free and reduced-price meals based on parent or guardian income. More than half of California’s students participate in this program.”
“More than 40% of public school students in California face another challenge to academic success. They live in homes where the most frequently spoken language is not English.”
"California has four ethnic subgroups of significant size: Hispanic/Latino, white, Asian, and African American. Latinos make up more than half of the school population and white students more than a quarter.</p>
<p>Individual schools and districts often do not reflect this diversity because specific ethnic groups are more concentrated in different parts of the state. For example, Imperial, Monterey, Tulare, and Colusa counties have a density of 70% or higher of Latino students. And almost three-quarters of the state’s African American students live in six counties: Los Angeles, San Bernardino, San Diego, Sacramento, Alameda, and Riverside.</p>
<p>How well Latino and African American students are being served in the state’s schools has been an issue in California. A disproportionate number of school dropouts are from these two subgroups. Based on state achievement measures, schools with higher percentages of Latino and African American students are also more likely to be low performing and have fewer qualified teachers, though the number of qualified teachers has increased substantially over the past few years."</p>
<p>What would you suggest? Vouchers? Good luck finding private schools for 6 million students.</p>
<p>Teacher unions + illegal immigration = Downfall of CA K-12 public education</p>
<p>Throwing money indiscriminately at the existing K-12 system will not solve the problem.</p>
<p>But money is going to be needed if the problem is ever to be solved. You can’t continue drawing your teachers largely from the bottom 25% of the college graduate pool and expect good results. And you can’t continue to pay low wages and attract high-quality people to what is a very difficult and draining job.</p>
<p>Bay, you only need to look at the history of defunding education in this state. Before Prop 13, California had the best K-12 in the country. Now, some 30 years after we decided not to “throw money” at education, we rank at or near the bottom.</p>
<p>Based on someone’s earlier link, it looks like you can take 12 credits and pay a measly $600, plus activity fee $10, health fee $20, and parking fee $30. $660 for a semester, or <$6,000 for 4 years, including health fee? Is that possible? No wonder why CA schools are going broke!!!</p>
<p>xiggy, your post #66 is absurd.</p>
<p>“Notice the absence of two pesky elements … the students and the teaching. Not it surprises me in the least from faculty. What was I thinking! Those folks have had their prorities straight for a long time. As I wrote it is … do the least possible, in the most pleasant environment, and for the most bucks. Some call that dedication to the teaching profession. Oh my!”</p>
<p>I don’t see one iota of insinuation that these people aren’t dedicated to teaching. Rather, they’re talking about factors that make their jobs - of which teaching is a part - more satisfying. These same kinds of factors are the way ALL OF US make decision about whether to stay in a job or move on. Pretending that professors should be any different is disingenuous. Lucky for some of them, there is still a bit of a free market left in academia for those unhappy with their universities to move on to greener pastures. But I assume you’re against that too. God knows adding unhappy, bitter faculty to the mix in CA is just the way to make the system better.</p>
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<p>Possibly in non-science areas. Many humanities and social studies majors avoid any “difficult” (i.e. true college level) science courses when fulfilling their breadth requirements. It would not be surprising if many humanities and social studies faculty at research universities did not take any science courses for science majors (or of equivalent rigor) as undergraduates.</p>
<p>lima, those are costs for community colleges, not 4-year universities. The costs at UC and CSU are ridiculous in the other direction. The original idea for the community colleges was that they should be available to everyone, and even $600/quarter is a stretch for some. Of course, that was the original idea at UC/CSU as well – to provide a world-class education for Californians of even modest means. Those schools are now financially out of reach for a great many middle-income California families.</p>
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<p>No, LasMa, it is not <em>only</em> defunding due to Prop 13, it is also 30 years of unrestrained illegal immigration into CA.</p>
<p>How much are illegal immigrants raising higher education costs in Cal?</p>