The CSUs offer remedial math and English to incoming students who need them. That takes extra time. The percent of students who need remedial math/English looks somewhat like the inverse of the chart in the article.
Also, semester-long co-ops or internships may be common at places like San Jose State.
San Jose State is our local school.
We know many students who did not graduate on time (4yrs) because they could not get into the classes they needed.
Most take an extra year.
You can quibble over differences in rates from various sources but the statement “its nearly impossible to finish in 4 years” is hyperbole on steroids.
Few students will be admitted to Duke or Vanderbilt or other private schools with good need based financial aid.
Although not necessarily well informed (since local areas within states vary considerably, and universities can differ from the state and local areas), it is not surprising that, when politics is now much more about racism than it was before, students who see themselves as members of visible minority groups apparently despised by majorities of the populations of “red states” may not want to go to where they are apparently not welcome. It is not about being enlightened or not.
Direct quote from the guidance counselor.
Also mentioned it would be easier to get into Northwestern U. with my D’s grades than San Jose State nursing.
@ucbalumnus I am not talking about those kids.
I am speaking about the upper middle class white kids.
And also, fewer and fewer are able to get in to the top UC’s , or state schools for that matter.
Public universities in Arizona or New Mexico are attracting a fair number of CA students because they offer merit scholarships that can bring the costs down to in-state California rates, or lower. They may not be as highly ranked as the upper tier UC and Cal State schools but they can be a good value, easier to gain admission, and possibly easier to graduate in 4 years. There are numerous other options through WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange) that offer great value for California residents that might get shut out from instate options.
Most of the CSUs appear to have a confluence of factors that work against graduation rates:
a. Many are not that selective academically. A large percentage of entering frosh need remedial courses.
b. Many students are commuters who work part time to afford school and therefore take light full time loads (12 credit units instead of 15).
c. CSUs have relatively voluminous general education requirements. Many will regard such as essential for a well educated college graduate, but checking all of the boxes may make it more difficult to finish on time.
d. Most students at CSUs major in pre-professional majors, which tend to have more voluminous requirements than liberal arts majors. Checking all of the boxes may make it more difficult to finish on time (especially if the courses have to be sequenced).
Some CSUs (e.g. Pomona, Fresno, San Bernardino, Bakersfield, Channel Islands) do have four year pledge programs (priority registration and additional advising for students who do not need remedial courses and commit to following their majors’ course plans), but few students appear to sign up for them.
A lot of it is simple geography. Most kids stay relatively close to home for college. If a kid from Connecticut defines that to be the area of New England and the mid-Atlantic states, he will be choosing from nearly a dozen states. A kid from California, wanting to limit herself to the same area, will stay in state.
Very few kids go to college in regions far away from where they grew up. I’m not even sure the premise of OP’s post is true anymore. In my son’s CA high school class (middle class public school), nearly a third of the students went out of state. Mostly to Washington, Oregon, and Arizona. This is a definite change from decades past.
Are fewer getting in? Or is that more are getting rejected because more are applying? There’s a big difference.
Nursing is highly selective everywhere.
White (not Hispanic or Latino) high school graduates make up something like 28% of high school graduates in California these days. Of course, many are not upper middle class. In other words, you are referring to a small demographic slice of California high school seniors and graduates.
More out of state and international as well as increased population via immigration.
My CA girl is in at UCLA but hoping to go out of state. Her brother attends an instate private uni. Most at her high school go out of state. I do think privates have a different focus than publics. The publics really focus their students to aim for UC’s and many get shut out or only accepted to lower tier. At private HS’s, there is more awareness of private colleges and uni’s, and there is more help in applying and seeking out scholarships.
I’m confused dragonmom, in post #19 you extoll the virtue of CA kids getting out and meeting kids from other regions and in post #51 you seem to imply that the UCs are wrong to diversify their student body with kids from other regions.
Last summer the NY Times published a chart of numbers of students entering and leaving each state for college.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/26/us/college-student-migration.html
CA had one of the highest numbers (about 17K) going to other states, with more than 3K going to Arizona. My impression is that AZ recruits aggressively in CA. Not sure how this number stacks up percentage wise or whether it’s accurate to say CA students do not consider other states. I agree with @Otterma that geography is such that going from socal to norcal would be like going out of state on the East Coast.
Post 51 is saying what is causing the increase in standards for acceptance that is occurring. Why are so many kids getting rejected? It’s not all about them going for reaches but that their initial assumptions of acceptance are off. Too many exceptional students applying making it more difficult to get in.
Californians going OOS is just going to increase. With more getting rejected in state, they will look for alternatives. The private schools just have been recommending OOS much more.
I’m pretty sure the point was not about moving geographically far enough but instead moving where the culture is significantly different. For example, moving to Seattle doesn’t really count but going to Utah or Arizona probably does.
If its a culture change that’s important, then a San Francisco student could go to college in the San Joaquin valley and accomplish the same thing as going to Iowa. If you want your student to mingle with those of the unfettered free-market capitalist crowd, then send them to Orange County to accomplish the same thing as going to Greenwich CT. California has it all.
I think this thread has points that we can extrapolate across the country:
Students like to stay relatively close to home.
The wealthier the student, the more options are available.
Teenagers can be provincial in their outlook.
Public universities have been facing funding cuts.
This is a reminder of the original post:
California kids mostly only consider states, UC’s and some out of state publics (AZ, OR, WA).
Most of the West Coast has a similar culture.
As for non-residents, it has been a scandal over the last few years about how the UC system is using non-residents’ tuition to cover for their mismanagement.
Also, having a French person as a colleague is quite different than visiting France-if you get what I mean.