<p>CSU’s may be a different matter than the UC’s, particularly the flagship UC’s.<br>
The anti-tax mentality in California is greatly to blame in all this. The UC’s have done a lot in the way of private fundraising since the old days, which is to the good as a financial matter, but also has troubling implications. I benefited as a Californian from a virtually free education (when I started, it was $67 a quarter and dorms were $1000 a year), through several graduate degrees; I am grateful for it. I am sorry to see that young people today don’t have the flexibility I had - to switch fields, for example, without incurring any debt. I would be very happy to pay higher taxes to benefit the public education system. But I don’t see that there is much of a movement for that outside of the protests on the campuses themselves, that so far seem to have no impact off the campuses. The state economy is a mess - state workers in every sector have been laid off and furloughed.<br>
On the other hand, it is still true that the UC’s and CSU’s are a bargain for many thousands of students, even at higher tuition rates; and I think they offer wonderful opportunities for California students, even in these grim economic times.</p>
<p>Our experiences at California publics have been positive so far (except for the increases in tuition) but it is still not too bad. Tuition seems to be in line with many other top public university tuitions that I have seen recently. True, the UC/CSU system used to be one of the top bargains for in-state students in the nation as far as public institutions go and that has definitely changed. Out of 3 kids I have in college right now, 1 will graduate next year after 4 years. Other than tuition increases and a few classes with furloughs this year, D has had no problems getting her classes with a little time flexibility.
S and other D go to UCLA and have had no problems getting classes there either. D will graduate in 4 (unless she decides to double major or minor, because she is a science major, she may have to add a quarter in that case); S is taking a little longer because he has changed majors 3 times (ugh:) ), not because of lack of class availability. UCLA is a little different because of the donors who tend to step up in bad times. For example, the main library, (Powell) used to be open almost 24/7. However, this year due to budget cuts, the the library was closed nights and on weekends. 2 donors stepped up and night Powell is back as well as Sunday hours were brought back. Thank you donors! There have been several instances of this. So luckily, my kids have only had minor adjustments. Most of their friends have said the same this (UCSD, UCD, and Cal), very few problems. Friends at CSU Long Beach and Fullerton have had a few more problems but that could be student not necessarily school, there is a fine line there IMO. Anyway, I think the doom and gloom is a little overrated as several parents here with students in CSU/UC have stated. The hardest part is getting in:(</p>
<p>Daughter is applying as we speak to UC’s (we live in CA) and a few out of state safeties (Oregon, UofW, Uof Colorado) But looking at these sticker prices scares the heck out of us!! Already have one son @ UCSD, 2nd year Human Biology major and he ended up taking a summer school chem class last year to make up for a class he dropped (Can’t risk a B or god forbid a C going pre-med according to him!!) What Liberal Arts colleges are people talking about when comparing costs etc… Are these aide packages given for high merit only ?? Are they need base only?? We don’t qualify for any financial aide yet having 2 in college is really going to strap us!! My daughter wants the "typical college experience with decent size campus, school spirit, academic prestige etc… She is an english major, emphasis on creative writing. She would LOVE to go east likes cold weather over sun, but the thought of private LAC’s seems out of our price range. After reading some of the above posts, are we being short sighted?? Any suggestions would be great!!</p>
<p>ucmomhopeful: Regarding comparative prices, remember that state schools depend on, well, the state for their funding including aid money for students; thus they are excruciatingly sensitive to the ups and downs of the state’s economy. Private schools on the other hand, have a much more stable source of funding, basically income thrown off from their endowments. Plus they can do whatever they darn well please with it. </p>
<p>It was when my D was a HS freshman that I first heard the concept that a private school <em>can</em> be less expensive than a state school. Frankly, I didn’t quite believe it, but there you are, it does indeed happen.</p>
<p>I think graduating in 4 years from a UC/CSU depends largely on selecting and sticking with a major early on. At many LACs, students are not allowed to declare a major until the end of sophomore year, and they still graduate easily in four years. Is the same true for an undecided freshman at a UC/CSU (especially the latter) with no/little AP credit? (If it is, by anecdote or data, I’d be happily surprised.)</p>
<p>There are definitely private schools costing less, by need or merit aid, than CA state schools. But you have to put much more effort into finding them than just turning to the state school.</p>
<p>Curious about this…</p>
<p>“in order to be competitive (unless you are URM or from an under performing school, or athlete) for the top 6 campus’ these days you need many AP’s,”</p>
<p>How specifically, are you saying the URM (without anything else) thing works at top 6 UC’s? </p>
<p>FWIW, we are still planning on CSU’s, for son, high school class of 2011, but we are also considering small Christian schools in California, which we did not, for daughter, class of 2008. Son is used to that setting, the price is right, and I’m hoping the will count the many reasonable grades be got in religion classes, toward his GPA. Both are URM, went to a tiny Christian school with few AP’s, and we will be full play, if not for merit scholarships…</p>
<p>ucmomhopeful: some of the wealthier LAC’s offer generous need-based aid, without “gapping” students. So a student getting such aid might do better than at a UC, where students are expected to borrow some amount as part of the financial aid package. But most such schools do not offer merit aid (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Pomona are examples). So if you are full pay by their standards (which may be different than UC standards…so you might get some “need based” aid that you would not qualify for at Cal, for example), you would not get any financial aid.<br>
There are also excellent LAC’s that offer merit aid to top students as a way to attract them, particularly in the Midwest. Some are particularly good for creative writing: take a look at Oberlin and Kenyon. Grinnell, in Iowa, is also generous with merit aid. (Carlton, also an excellent LAC in the midwest, does not offer merit aid except for national merit finalists.) It is unlikely that the cost would be less or even the same as a UC, but it would be closer than you might expect.</p>
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URM status by law doesn’t mean anything at the UCs. Certain attributes other than race, mostly relating to first gen college student, family hardships, etc. can ‘add points’ to the app but not race which is what people are usually referring to when they say URM.</p>
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Yes, even with little to no AP credits one can graduate in 4 years or less depending on the major/minor and whether or not the student is willing to take a full load and if they’re not doing the drop/repeat routine some students do (premed). Note that it’s unlikely there are many students admitted to the top UCs that don’t have a fair amount of AP credits although it’s possible they took the courses but not the tests. Also, depending on the major (like engineering), the AP classes don’t necessarily help all that much other than getting out of a few classes but not getting out of the equivalent number of classes to the APs taken. Another thing a lot of AP credits can do though, even if they don’t translate to getting out of specific classes, is to count as ‘credits’ and move the student to a higher ‘standing’ meaning they may be entering college with sophomore rather than freshman status which can be helpful when signing up for some courses if the particular school gives priority to the higher standing.</p>
<p>I’m referring to the UCs I’m familiar with (my moniker) and not necessarily all UCs or CSUs. They’re all different and there are a lot of variables - major, minor, full load or not, drop/repeat or not, switch majors or not, flexibility on the part of the student in taking a different elective if the other’s not available, flexibility in the student taking an 8am class if the afternoon one is full, etc. but they should be prudent and check the particular campus for their particular major to see how difficult it might be to get classes.</p>
<p>^And this is true (for the UCs you’re familiar with) even when the student doesn’t start his/her major (except maybe one intro course) until the beginning of junior year? The hypothetical situation I have in mind is an undecided student who does eventually pick a major and stick with it–but it takes a long time to make the choice. </p>
<p>I’m genuinely curious, being as I live on the other side of the country.</p>
<p>this would depend on just how undecided the student was - if the student took random courses in many different subjects, it would probably take longer at a UC or anywhere else. But if a student took entry level courses in a couple of areas while at the same time fulfilling breadth requirements, it could be done in 4 years. There is also the possibility of a summer session or two, at quite reasonable cost, at a UC to catch up if necessary. I don’t think UCs are different from other universities in these respects. One reason students sometimes have taken longer at UC’s is that they could afford to financially.</p>
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I agree with mamenyu - the answer to your question depends on what the student took in the first couple of years and what their major ends up being. If the major is engineering, it’s unlikely they could do this since there’d be so many specific engineering, math, and physics courses they’d have to take. If they were to major in one of the humanities, it should be possible but the student would need to research the particular requirements for the particular major. I don’t think any of this is unique to the UCs.</p>
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That’s another factor I’ve posted on CC before and that some people don’t stop to consider. If the cost to attend the UC ends up to be half or much less than half the cost of the private then it becomes more feasible to spend more time taking additional classes and extending the grad time. I’ve even heard of people specifically extending the grad time into the next year so they could spend the summer at another study-abroad.</p>
<p>My son graduated from HS in 2006 and all of his friends at UC’s and CSU’s appear to be on track to graduate within 4 years. That may all change for kids graduating 4 years from now.</p>
<p>From the LA Times today, an article on how private colleges are using this as a recruitment opportunity. [State</a> cuts give private colleges an edge – latimes.com](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-college-recruit16-2009nov16,0,2192756.story]State”>State cuts give private colleges an edge : Some campuses are luring students away from UC and Cal State schools with grants and assurances.)</p>
<p>From today’s Mercury News, UC is asking for $900 million from the state in 2010, CSUs are asking for around the same. Let the budget games begin!</p>
<p>Also in the article: fee increases of 32% for next year, starting with 15% in the spring.</p>
<p>And somewhat related:</p>
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