<p>Thought I had this figured out...HS junior son is interested in computer science & there is tons of great info here on schools that excel in that area.</p>
<p>He just came home from school, however, and clarified ("mom..that's not right!") that he is actually interested in software engineering (specifically, the video game arena). He wants to do programing and is also interested in artificial intelligence and graphic user interfaces. </p>
<p>He tells me that it's not necessarily worthwhile to search for schools that have a computer science major, but we must look for schools w/software engineering-computer science-IT systems tech-systems management programs.</p>
<p>This is all like typing a foreign language to me ("where does the comma go in graphic user interface?") so am hopeful that perhaps someone might have an insight on a few schools that would have strong programs in these areas (other than the MIT, Caltech level).</p>
<p>We're in Jersey & know about Drexel, Rennsalear & Stevens. </p>
<p>Computers are a relatively new interest for son (he's good w/math but not interested in the engineering route) so I was trying to find a school not too tech-restrictive, in case he switches majors, later. </p>
<p>Maybe I'm mistaken, though, and all the info on the computer science major thread would apply to someone w/a more specific, sub-set interest? </p>
<p>Both of my Ds are current CS majors and I'm in the field also.</p>
<p>Think of a Computer Science degree as a specialized yet general degree. I know it sounds strange but a CS degree is general in that one can head in many directions within the computer field with one. Typically, software engineers, programmers, software development managers, etc. have CS degrees. Once one has their degree they decide what field they really want to go into. This could include game development, application development for any of the software applications (which is ubiquitous), application architecture, and many other areas.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that 90% (perhaps I'm exaggerating) of males going into CS have aspirations of game development. This is because they're usually HS boys who spend an inordinate amount of time playing computer/video games.
By the time they graduate most realize they really want to do other things and that there's far more opportunity in areas other than game development although there's some of that as well. Others won't make it through to get the degree when they realize that learning CS and writing programs isn't anything like playing computer games.</p>
<p>I think your S should really be looking for a college that offers a decent Computer Science program. He could choose something like a CS or CSE major. The difference is that a CSE major receives a bit more electrical engineering and a bit less programming and vice versa for the CS major. </p>
<p>Unless he's absolutely sure what he wants to do, which usually means he's had enough experience in the field already (i.e. programming) to be able to be certain, he should realize that he could change his mind after starting the major in college. At UCSD and UCLA which both have strong CS departments and virtually all incoming students are top students, probably 35-40% of students who start in CS will change majors - often out of engineering altogether. It's a rigorous major requiring a lot of math, science, learning programming languages, learning algorithms, learning how to actually program, etc. in addition to doing the normal humanities. It requires a lot of homework and not rote work. The point is, unless he's absolutely certain about the major, he should make sure wherever he attends offers adequate other majors he might be interested in - econ, math, bio, chem, history, poli sci, etc.</p>
<p>I'm not an expert on the best schools for CS in the NE but certainly consider Carnegie-Mellon.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for that response! Son read through it and encouraged me to post this response:</p>
<p>"I know basic programing; I enjoy it (it's my favorite school subject) and I've already started planning ideas (programing schemes for games)." </p>
<p>So...I put that in. :-)</p>
<p>Based on what you said...sounds like son would be okay w/a computer science major? But, should he definitely look for a school that has a subset of software engineering? </p>
<p>Sorry to be remedial. Eng/psych major who needs help programing ipod -- out of my depth here...</p>
<p>The 'software engineering' is what one with a CS degree would do (among other things). You won't find a 'software engineering' major. A CS degree from a college with a respected CS program would be what to pursue.</p>
<p>If he's already done a reasonable amount of programming then he has more of an idea of what it's like although things will be much faster paced and more intensive in college. But it's good that he has this experience (my Ds didn't before they started).</p>
<p>It's fine to have the idea in mind that he'll pursue game development after obtaining his degree but again, once he sees the other opportunities available to him he'll likely change his mind. They specifically raise this point at CS orientation sessions at the colleges. However, at a session at UCLA they actually had a recent CS grad speak and he DID end up in game development which is what he wanted all along so it's certainly possible. </p>
<p>There are some very specialized colleges that may focus on game development but I think he's likely better off getting a CS degree at a well-known, respected college.</p>
<p>Other posters will be able to come up with many other colleges in the NE that have well-respected CS programs.</p>
<p>Thanks again ucsd ucla dad! That's exactly what we/he needed to hear, I think. Will show him your post. Another thread had lots of great compsci major schools listed, so I'll utilize that info.</p>
<p>avoidingwork--thanks for that tip. Son's comp prgming teacher in HS told him not to major in game development, though -- 'too narrow.' Sort of glad he said that! :-)</p>
<p>Check-out Clark U in Worcester MA: Clark</a> University | Academic Catalog | Computer Science It's not gaming-specific but a well-rounded program with courses in software engineering, graphics, etc. Also, qualified undergraduate students can get a MBA, MS in Finance, or one of several other Master's degrees (not CS) with the extra (fifth) year tuition free!</p>
<p>RPI also has an interdisciplinary program that includes game design: RPI:</a> Electronic Media, Arts, and Communication (EMAC) By the way, a couple of summers ago Columbia High School Summer program was offering a Graphics/Game Development program. It's how my son decided that *wasn't *the part of computer programming that most interested him. He's at Carnegie Mellon - which is an excellent place to do all kinds of programming. (Also good for Robotics, Artificial Intelligence.)</p>
<p>Those are great tips, thanks so much!! Will show all these to son--it's really informing our upcoming spring college visit itinerary. </p>
<p>The only downside of RPI (& Georgia Tech, etc.) is the gender ratio (I think Georgia is 70 % men). Son's not liking that much, but I'm hoping if the academics are there (wherever it might be) that will be the deciding factor (I'm sure the guys on tech campuses meet girls somehow!!!).</p>
<p>
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You won't find a 'software engineering' major.
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</p>
<p>Not true, there are a few these days. But they are rare.</p>
<p>I'm a software engineer (and female...while there are not so many of us, your S should not worry that the pool of females will be negligible :)). I'm not a game developer, but a disproportionate number of my friends are. Based on what I have heard from them and others, keep in mind that the game industry is <em>very</em> competitive. You have to be very good to get a good job in it. Really, being a game developer is one of the more innovative CS careers you can have - the game studios are on the bleeding edge of computer graphics.</p>
<p>Since there are fairly few schools with specialized software engineering or game development majors, you don't want to disregard all regular CS majors (especially since traditional CS program subjects like algorithms and AI are highly useful for game developers). What you do want is a program that has a lot of graphics and/or game-oriented electives, and enough flexibility in the curriculum that he will be able to take advantage of them.</p>
<p>If you can find a program with a good track record of placing students in internships with the game industry, that could be very helpful. I know that MIT has an experimental game development lab where students can work during term (part-time) and during the summer (full-time). I realize you said he's not looking at the MIT/Caltech level, but my point is that if MIT has such an institution, other universities might as well.</p>
<p>Note that Carnegie Mellon, brought up earlier in this thread, is absolutely on the MIT/Caltech level in computer science.</p>
<p>Joining late... I'm in the sw industry as well. I agree with jessiehl's post, in that it's <em>very</em> difficult to find a stable well-paying gig in game design. They're out there, but with every young man (and the very occasional young women) wanting to get into it, it's extremely competitive. And, there are some very good asian and eastern european programmers that outsource a good chunk of work.</p>
<p>I think of game programming as the computer equivalent of being a ballet dancer or cellist. It's artsy, slick, engrossing, sure. It's also a long tough road with need for sacrifice, many folks don't make it in or last long, and there is a <em>lot</em> of tedious attention to detail that goes into a great performance/program.</p>
<p>There are schools that specialize in SW engineering - Carnegie Mellon's Institute for SW Research is the notable example. While you can't <em>major</em> in sw eng, you can <em>minor</em> in it as part of a CS curriculum.</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon is very strong. I would consider it a top-5 CS school. CMU has the added benefit of a having a strong arts program, so according to kids at the school, everyone on campus is either an artist or a geek. ;)</p>
<p>I myself was a psych major, with a specialization in cognitive. After a somewhat labyrinthian path, I ended up a knowledge engineer in a sub-domain which is essentially artificial intelligence.</p>
<p>Lots of very cool things to do in CS -- if your son has a good programming aptitude he'll do ok. Just encourage him to keep his mind open. A foreign language is also a very good idea if he is going into CS. Most of our programming labor in the US is coming from Asia / SE Asia /India, so being able to work with other cultures, and learning a language from that region (e.g. Chinese) is a good idea.</p>
<p>I agree with the above advice. However... if he is absolutely sure that game development is all he would ever want to do, you could look into the Digipen Institute: Main</a> Page - <a href="http://www.digipen.edu%5B/url%5D">www.digipen.edu</a>. Founded by Nintendo to train game developers, it's now an independent college that, you know, trains people in all aspects of computer and video game design and development. According to their Website they offer five degrees: Bachelor of Science in Real-Time Interactive Simulation, Bachelor of Science in Computer Engineering, Master of Science in Computer Science, Associate of Applied Arts in 3D Computer Animation, Bachelor of Fine Arts in Production Animation. It's the software development equivalent of choosing Juilliard for music or the Art Center College of Design -- you better be sure it's what you really want.</p>
<p>After lurking on CC for months, I finally registered to post to this thread.</p>
<p>OP,
It is (IMHO) very important to look at schools' core curricula. For example, a computer science degree from a <em>science</em> school has different requirements from a computer science degree from an <em>engineering</em> school. I won't comment on the value of one over the other because ymmv, but at least look.</p>
<p>That said, Northwestern engineering has a great computer science program (but why did I have to suffer through thermodynamics?). </p>
<p>And I am happy to be an engineer, not a scientist because (again IMHO) scientist and engineers think differently from each other. </p>
<p>And one last caveat, be careful not to fall into a <em>programmer</em> school. If I can make an example without insulting anyone .... some programmer schools are to computer science as the grill chef is to a Cordon Bleu Institute. Sometimes the hard core understanding/concepts ARE not used every day, but they do sometimes MATTER. ... and that is why you are careful choosing the school that both fits and stretches you.</p>
<p>By the way, though the ratio is no better at WPI than RPI, it is part of a five college consortium. In particular, Clark (also mentioned in this thread) is a pretty well respected LAC. They also offered my son more merit $$ than RPI did. My brother's Boston computer sw firm hires quite a bit from them.</p>
<p>Thanks a whole lot for those additional insights, everyone! Really appreciate.</p>
<p>Now I'm wondering...when I tried to ask son about some of this...he said: "I like programming! That's what I want to do." So, esobay, when you say not to fall into a 'programmer school' I'm wondering if that means not enough theoretical (& theoretical is important)? </p>
<p>My head is kinda spinning as I'm trying to sort this out. E.g., son really likes Drexel, which has an excellent engineering program (known for that -- son took a 2 week summer program in 5 types of engineering a few years ago). But, it also seems to offer a lot of science courses/degrees.</p>
<p>Not sure how to tell if a school is 'science' or 'engineering' oriented...would the best way to evaluate be to look at where the comp sci major is classified? Or, if the school is know for one or the other of those two disciplines (engineering or science)?</p>
<p>When I said 'you won't find a software engineering major' I figured someone would note some exceptions. I should have said 'won't find many...'. Most colleges though seem to have CS and CSE majors with perhaps some minor variation on the wording of the terms (like EECS rather than CSE). As other posters have noted, there are some more specialized degrees available.</p>
<p>My point is that people can get confused about computer science and the various terms used like 'software engineer', programmer, 'software architect', 'software developer', etc. Again, generally most people today would obtain a CS or CSE degree and then head in the specific area they want and of course, there are exceptions where sometimes people with different backgrounds (Math/Physics especially and other majors and sometimes people without any degree) enter the business. They'll also likely change course a few times after they enter the industry and have different jobs/titles (programmer, software engineer, etc.) and could end up almost anywhere.</p>
<p>JS -- not specifically related to your OP, but a lesson I learned from going thru college search w/ D (& related to post # 18). D attended 3 week summer program at well known university after her sophomore year and ended falling in love w/ the school itself. H & I knew it would be a real stretch for her, and were concerned about her being so completely invested in 1 school. But, after researching & touring many other schools, she found several she really, really liked -- and ended up getting into one of those at the top of her list. So, even if your S really likes Drexel, there may well be others that he ends up liking as much/more. </p>
<p>We're just starting down this same path w/ S, i.e. computer related areas.</p>